Only 6.4% of fatal crashes caused by excessive speed

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

and why did I know you would take that as a personsal jibe

If you google the word 'ignorant' it does mean people who don't know something, it is not always meant to be derogatory, but I knew you would take it the wrong way even though it wasn't the way I meant it.

Very provocative trev.

You knew it would be taken the wrong way yet you chose to put it in anyway which translates to, you wanted it to be taken the wrong way but it gave you an element of plausable deniability.

You should be a politician! lol!

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by karj

No. These stats put road fatalities down to a single cause. In 6.4%, excessive speed was recorded as the single cause.

This means that there is likely a higher percentage of fatalities where excessive speed did contribute, but it's not recorded in these stats.

I agree with your analysis of these stats - but I would like to see the specific scenarios where speed was the deemed cause.

It is very hard to come up with any.
Can anyone conceive any circumstances where speed was the sole cause ?
Can anyone conceive any circumstances where speed was the primary cause ?


Innocent party entering a road and unable to determine the speed of a car already on the road because it was speeding.
... No - this is "failure to give way" with speed as an additional factor - note: what if the speeding car had been an emergency vehicle (no lights or siren - police do this for justifiable cause)

Innocent Party overtaking a truck, oncoming car speeding = head on.
... maybe this one, but only if the road was marked for overtaking, the oncoming car was not visible at the commencement of the overtake and the overtake would have been completed in the marked area.

Speeding car fails to make corner on country road
.. maybe this one - but there may be other circumstances that outweigh the speeding (alcohol, inexperience, wildlife)

Any others ?

[MAD]

"Excessive speed" could be taken as 'too fast for the conditions'.
Removing the ability for sufficient reaction to an unforeseen situation.

[poppa smurf]

please folks....we are a forum of car enthusiasts....we should be promoting safe driving under any conditions

we have a lot of young players who are about to enter the xmas period reading this and taking different views, not all good

those more "glowing members" amid our fold should take the stance of showing the correct time and place to enjoy your motor vehicle and not propping up "inappropriate" driving habits on public roads

attending an accident scene and dealing with grief stricken parents under any circumstance is one that I would not recommend anyone have to do but there are those amongst us that do exactly this all the time

speed does not necessarily kill but it can be a major determining factor under certain situations......we all know this

death is not the only statistic that should be portrayed, sometimes it may be the more humane option

please folks use common sense, a little bit of encouragement to "drive in the correct manner" and obey the road rules is what is needed not civil disobedience......if this is your forte then find the appropriate forum

dont be the next "number" this xmas or any other time to enter the statistics.....death or maiming can happen anytime anywhere to anyone if you allow it

any death, any injury anywhere to anyone is a tragedy to those involved regardless of how the stats are portrayed

[EgoFG]

Pop - I appreciate your wisdom in this matter.
And I agree with your words.

I believe that we should drive safely, and indeed I even believe we should drive legally.

However:
Incorrect understanding of stats mean incorrect policing.
Incorrect policing means more deaths.

I do Not promote speeding in any way, I do believe it is the amplifier in accidents. However it is rarely (if ever) the primary cause.

The primary cause should be policed.

I believe the police law enforcement should focus on areas that will force the driver to be a better driver.

There are two main problems that if overcome would address many of our road accident causes
General driver inattention.
Drivers being inconsiderate.

1) Inattention:
A well publicised problem is mobile phone usage - this is an enforceable law - well worthwhile as a target of law enforcement campaigns.
A better known problem also fits into this category - Drink Driving - QED.
But there are many other problems that also cause inattention. Children, Animals, Smoking, Intense conversation or thought, eating or drinking, emotional stress, stupidity, music, radio ...

Hmmm ... we can make some laws, and enforce them as we identify them, but this is a complex area, I hope the Second point turns out better, or we will have to have more speed cameras, and possibly rubber tyres around our cars to fix the problem

2) Inconsiderate:
We already have many rarely enforced rules, that if followed would force drivers to be aware of and have consideration for other drivers.

Keep left unless overtaking. This promotes free flowing traffic, decreases stress. This rule should be enforced, and the application of the law should start at 70kmph rather than 90 (above 80). If only there could be a law against driving 10k under the speed limit on a single lane road, and then 10k over when the overtaking lane begins !

Proper use of indicators. Indicators are, by there very existance, an indication that consideration is important, we should be aware of other drivers and tell them what we are intending to do (notice I did not say "what we are doing"). If this were policed properly there would likely be a revenue not unlike that of the speeding revenue. How often have you been at a roundabout, and waited for a car to come past, only to find he exitted earlier without an indication - a driver blissfully unaware that others are also using the road. Not using indicators, not only causes accidents, but also contributes to congestion, and stress.

Not Tailgating. An easily enforcable law, and an extremely inconsiderate action. A better overtaking move can be peformed, more quickly and with less stress from a little further back. If you are not planning to overtake drop further back still, someone may then be able to overtake you safely, then the car in front of you. Do not assume that people have no right to overtake you - you may have missed seeing a speed limit increase.

If travelling at the same speed as another car, drive in such a manner as to allow faster traffic to pass, sufficiently ahead or behind, whether in the same lane or another. Do not assume that people have no right to overtake you - You may have an innacurate speedometer. If we are in the other drivers blind spot, he may be less aware of our prescence, we should drive in a manner that other cars have no doublts about where we are, and what our intentions are. Would need a new law here, but it would be enforcable, and give good revenue - at least until we become better drivers.

Inappropriate use of Lights. If visibility is limited turn your headlights on ! Parking lights are for parking when visibility is limited. Driving in trafic with more than your lowbeam headlights on is distracting to other drivers, be considerate. If the law were changed to make using fog lights in traffic illegal there would be less accidents - think about it: less glare, less stress, better visibility - I do not know about you, but I want oncoming cars to see me, AND the road clearly !

Indecisive driving. There are some laws to enforce decisive driving. But to put it simply - drive in a predictable manner, do not leave other drivers guessing what you might be up to.


I could probably Keep going for days, but to put it simply

BEFORE we make new road rules,
BEFORE we restrict driving to the point that it is an ineffective means of transport

LET'S enforce the laws that that will make us better drivers !

[karj]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Your comment about this will carry more weight if you can actually provide evidence by the way of statistics as the original poster did! Until then its just pure speculation!

No it's not pure speculation and I explained it in this post: http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...2&postcount=81

But I'll explain it further.

If you read the document linked to by the OP (the same document he is quoting the stats from), you will find on page 3, summary data that it says fatal road crashes - number:95

http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/__data/***...nkbook2011.pdf

So there was 95 fatal road crashes in total.

And then on page 63 you will find the stats that the OP quoted, where it categorises the cause of the fatal road crashes (excess speed, DUI, etc)... total fatal crashes: 94

I have no idea where they have counted the additional fatal road crash, I imagine that it must be counted in another table somewhere for some reason...

Now if you think about it, they cannot possibly have attributed multiple factors as causes for the fatal road crashes in the stats on page 63 (quoted by the OP), because otherwise you would end up with a higher number than 94.

Hence, they assigned 1 singular cause (the primary cause in the investigators opinion) to each fatal road crash. Therefore, the sole cause of 6.4% of fatal road crashes (according to these stats) is excessive speed.

Therefore, it is possible that excessive speed contributed to more fatal road crashes. How many of those DUI's involved excess speed, but were only recorded as DUI because a blood test of the deceased returned a BAC? That we don't know, but if we were counting multiple factors instead of attributing one cause, then excessive speed would probably be higher than 6.4%.

I think this is the third crack I've had at explaining this, hopefully I've articulated it better this time.

[xxx000]

well said poppa smurf

EgoFG, if the speed signs say 80 it doesn't mean travel at that speed, it's the maximum designated speed for that stretch of road. Nothing wrong with travelling at 10 kph less than the signposted speed.
We all have our own list of things that other drivers do that we think is dangerous and perhaps contributes to road crash stats but what about the bad things we do?

[poppa smurf]

absolutely and mate I know where you are coming from but these threads simply keep on rising and the contents and subscribers are always the same

revenue raising, incorrect stats, nanny state!

I think that as motorist group we have

(1) the power and an obligation to instil good road behaviour in our young and impressionable

(2) an obligation, particularly in positions of authority, to not only support current road laws but offer up new ones, if we disagree with them then the forum is not the place to raise it, start with your local mp

(3) to show that we are reasonable, responsible drivers if only in words

the road toll, in death and or injury, is abhorrent regardless.....our young, just like we used to, think they are above the law and are indestructible.....some simply think that road rules should not apply to them

we, as a motoring body have a very small opportunity to be able, to maybe, persuade an impressionable driver that what he or she may be contemplating at any given time is not the only way .....this can be seen through our "perceived" behaviour online and just maybe, just possibly just save his/her life, monkey see, monkey do is alive and well

the youngsters are already excited and doing silly things that seem like fun but it is up to a peer group, like us, to show that it is either a dangerous pastime or an act that could kill or maim them

however if that peer group is a bad influence we will lose more of our young.......this is what, I above all else, don't want

given a decent peer group we may just save a couple of lives or a life in a wheel chair

I'm not attacking your statical placement which in itself is a good thread, but the arguments that arose from it which seem to continuously do the rounds

but anyway, just an old fools thoughts, I don't think anything will change.......boy's will be boy's and driver's will die!

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by karj

Hence, they assigned 1 singular cause (the primary cause in the investigators opinion) to each fatal road crash. Therefore, the sole cause of 6.4% of fatal road crashes (according to these stats) is excessive speed.

That's inaccurate. The PRIMARY cause of 6.4% of fatal road crashes (according to these stats) is excessive speed. By the same token that excessive speed may have been an ancillary factor in the other cases, other factors may have also been applicable to the 6.4% where excessive speed was deemed the PRIMARY cause.

[karj]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

That's inaccurate. The PRIMARY cause of 6.4% of fatal road crashes (according to these stats) is excessive speed. By the same token that excessive speed may have been an ancillary factor in the other cases, other factors may have also been applicable to the 6.4% where excessive speed was deemed the PRIMARY cause.

Yes! That is exactly what I'm trying to say! ("Sole" was a bad choice of word).

[flappist]

Ok well this has now degenerated into semantics.
Everyone has had their say and nothing new is appearing.

In other words the PRIMARY cause of 6.4% of this thread being closed is speed while the other 93.6% is fatigue from cyclic redundancy...