4cyl Falcon - Thoughts and Reviews?

[FGII-XR6]

what you need to consider is that P platers are statistically a much higher risk and in days when they could drive powerful cars this risk was even greater.
You can't single out some p platers and allow others to drive what they want. for this to work you would need to know in advance who was going to drive their performance car in a dangerous manner obviously this can't be achieved so the next best thing is not allowing novice drivers to drive performance cars.
like I said before it is like aircraft the won't allow a new pilot to fly a 747 or FA18 they need to gain more experience first, and bear in mind that in a car the chances of something going wrong are greater due to the close proximity of other vehicles. A P plater ( really a learner who is allowed to drive solo ) needs to gain required skills while protecting themselves and others, this isn't about what these some whinging kids want this is about public safety and if solo learners ( lets call a spade a spade) are upset bad luck

Originally Posted by NX74205

That may be ...

but these restrictions came about after public outcry over P-platers hooning in powerful cars. I don't think the powerful cars are the problem, but rather the attitudes of those "hoons". By banning P-platers from driving cars with a certain number of cylinders (or above a certain power to weight ratio), they're effectively punishing the majority for the sins of a few.

[chevypower]

After living in a place where p-plates don't exist, I am against them. It just creates an unnecessary label on young drivers. Judging by some of the comments, the labeling theory still holds true.

[KIWI-1]

One irony of this EcoBoost 4-cylinder discussion is that P-platers need to apply for an exemption to drive a Mondeo EcoBoost 4-cylinder in Victoria.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

what you need to consider is that P platers are statistically a much higher risk and in days when they could drive powerful cars this risk was even greater.
You can't single out some p platers and allow others to drive what they want. for this to work you would need to know in advance who was going to drive their performance car in a dangerous manner obviously this can't be achieved so the next best thing is not allowing novice drivers to drive performance cars.
like I said before it is like aircraft the won't allow a new pilot to fly a 747 or FA18 they need to gain more experience first, and bear in mind that in a car the chances of something going wrong are greater due to the close proximity of other vehicles. A P plater ( really a learner who is allowed to drive solo ) needs to gain required skills while protecting themselves and others, this isn't about what these some whinging kids want this is about public safety and if solo learners ( lets call a spade a spade) are upset bad luck

Long story but i know a guy who was a P plater due to administrative issue with his overseas license. It was educational going for a drive with him and observing anti P plater attitude many display - bloke is highly skilled driver btw.
Not all full licenced drivers are good drivers - just hava a look around
comparison with planes does not stand - different types of road vehicles do have different licensing requirements such as trucks , buses etc.

[FGII-XR6]

it's not about labelling it's about limiting those statistically proven to be too inexperienced and often too immature to drive powerful cars. it is about saving lives and if lives will be saved offending some whinging kids is a small price to pay.
most P platers accept this but those that whinge and think they are too good for the rules to apply prove this point that these restrictions are needed. they feel they are better than they really are and lets face it that proves the maturity point

Originally Posted by chevypower

After living in a place where p-plates don't exist, I am against them. It just creates an unnecessary label on young drivers. Judging by some of the comments, the labeling theory still holds true.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

it's not about labelling it's about limiting those statistically proven to be too inexperienced and often too immature to drive powerful cars. it is about saving lives and if lives will be saved offending some whinging kids is a small price to pay.
most P platers accept this but those that whinge and think they are too good for the rules to apply prove this point that these restrictions are needed. they feel they are better than they really are and lets face it that proves the maturity point

It is labeling, there is psychology to it. Psychology is about predicting and changing behavior. If displaying a P-plate isn't about affecting behavior, then why display it? Speaking of psychology, using words like "powerful cars," "saving lives," statistically-proven," "whinging kids;" it's all just rhetoric. The statistics (if there are any) are stupid by the way. The only way to gather reliable data on whether displaying p-plates makes a difference is to collect data samples of drivers with the same level of experience in the same locations with an experimental group and control group. Unless you know of a scientific study, in which there are experienced mature drivers displaying p-plates, and young inexperienced drivers not displaying p-plates, there is no reliable research.

[FGII-XR6]

Where do I start ????????
displaying P plates is to allow police to know of the reduced speed limit of that drive what would you have a trust system where they just promise not to drive at the higher speed? that would work extremely well wouldn't it
the statistical proof is no done in control group situation it is by way of road too statistics and these clearly show inexperienced drivers are far more at risk but lets not listen to this as we haven't paid some scientist millions of dollars to set up a control group to prove what we already know ( more kids die on the roads ).
if young people are dying on the roads we must not offend them with nasty "rhetoric" words like powerful cars saving lives statistically proven and whinging kids we should just let them die ( and take others out with them) after all what's a few dead kids to worry about.
because other countries such as the US don't have this system is valid reason to follow blindly after all we blindly follow the US in so many other things to the detriment of our own national identity. the US attitude to seatbelts is proof that they value freedom of choice over preventing death ( how enlightened they are)
although P plates can in one way be called labelling it is not like traditional labelling which tends to stick for life it is about providing police with a means of identifying that these drivers are in experienced and need to follow some restrictions for a fixed period of time providing all the rules are followed. Some left wing loons have likened P plates to the tattooing of Jews in concentration camps because it puts a tag on them. this just shows how out of touch with reality they are.
in many aspects of life we have to work our way up from the bottom, why is it thought by some that drivers should start at the top? hardly rational thinking

Originally Posted by chevypower

It is labeling, there is psychology to it. Psychology is about predicting and changing behavior. If displaying a P-plate isn't about affecting behavior, then why display it? Speaking of psychology, using words like "powerful cars," "saving lives," statistically-proven," "whinging kids;" it's all just rhetoric. The statistics (if there are any) are stupid by the way. The only way to gather reliable data on whether displaying p-plates makes a difference is to collect data samples of drivers with the same level of experience in the same locations with an experimental group and control group. Unless you know of a scientific study, in which there are experienced mature drivers displaying p-plates, and young inexperienced drivers not displaying p-plates, there is no reliable research.

[chevypower]

I'm looking for the statistics in your post, but I cannot find them. Your rhetoric shows a lack of critical thinking. I did not say inexperienced drivers were not at higher risk than experienced drivers. If that's all you are claiming, then I completely agree with you. I said displaying p-plates causes labeling (which leads to self-fulfilling prophecy). I do not believe displaying p-plates saves lives. I can't be a "left-wing loon" because I am very conservative.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

displaying P plates is to allow police to know of the reduced speed limit of that drive what would you have a trust system where they just promise not to drive at the higher speed?

In Vic and NSW (at least) whenever you are followed that information is displayed in the highway patrol vehicle. Both states are even talking of dumping rego labels.

[FGII-XR6]

only if the driver is the owner

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

In Vic and NSW (at least) whenever you are followed that information is displayed in the highway patrol vehicle. Both states are even talking of dumping rego labels.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

In Vic and NSW (at least) whenever you are followed that information is displayed in the highway patrol vehicle. Both states are even talking of dumping rego labels.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

only if the driver is the owner

They use sophisticated matching as well. Address, offences, names, outstanding fines etc. So unless Little Johnny is in a mate's car... and he may not have his P-plates with him if that were the case.

[GT69]

Anyway...back on topic.

Myself and my missus are tossing up a G6 ecoboost or a mondeo. She just needs a run around and still wants a large, comfortable car. Mondeo with TDCI helps tip the decision its way, but locally built is important to me so I think we'll go the G6.

[weairy]

Ok. This P Plate thing is ridiculous.
Regarding the above posts, if I recall correctly, I recently did a study on road statistics for the sake of insurance issues. It actually showed up that the 18-25 bracket had less accidents than the 30s, 40s and over 60s age groups.
If your statistics are based on Win News, then sure, P Platers like myself are the cause of every accident. The media loves to play up this when some idiot wraps a Commodore around a tree doing 180 through a 60 zone.
It doesn't matter if you drive a V8 FPV or a 4cyl Laser, there's still that desire to see how fast it goes.
The restrictions aren't a bad thing. If you can't put up with driving an XR6 for a few years before you get a licence, then go run the risk of a V8. I know some locals that have done it and been caught and complain about how hard done by they are, but that's their fault. The law is the law. Shut up, put up and wait, like the rest of us. The system is flawed on power to weight, but what can you do?

And au3xr6, I'll make the assumption you got off your P plates long before these laws, so going on about us "whinging P Platers" as you are isn't fair nor warranted.

- A P Plater abiding by the rules

[flappist]

You do realise that all you have demonstrated with your extensive research is that the P plate restrictions seem to be working.

Maybe they should be extended so that no one who is on P plates now will EVER be able to drive a V8 or Turbo. After all you won't miss what you have never had and as you have shown just how well it works, why change it?

Or is that also just spin doctoring statistics to support an agenda..........

[Franco Cozzo]

Register your P plate illegal car in your parents name, don't put any P plates up, don't drive like a massive nob and hope for the best you don't stack, then you'll be able to drive what you want without being hassled P plate laws or none.

Or buy something that flies under the radar and mod the crap out of it, I've never been pulled over once for a "random breath test", only pulled into a drug/booze bus setup twice around the corner from work.

[weairy]

Originally Posted by flappist

You do realise that all you have demonstrated with your extensive research is that the P plate restrictions seem to be working.

Maybe they should be extended so that no one who is on P plates now will EVER be able to drive a V8 or Turbo. After all you won't miss what you have never had and as you have shown just how well it works, why change it?

Or is that also just spin doctoring statistics to support an agenda..........

Perhaps re-read what I said. I'm in support of the P Plater laws.

The only issue I have with them is as I previously demonstrated. They're not using a lot of sense. It's just black and white. P2W wasn't even a consideration.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by weairy

Perhaps re-read what I said. I'm in support of the P Plater laws.

The only issue I have with them is as I previously demonstrated. They're not using a lot of sense. It's just black and white. P2W wasn't even a consideration.

There is a very compelling and sensible reason why class rather than power to weight was chosen.

It is ATTITUDE.

The young person who desperately wants a 200kw V8 instead of a 200kw I6 or 200kw TDi4 is on average far more likely to drive is a "hoony" and dangerous manner.

Why do they want a V8 or Turbo? 100% emotion 0% logic.

This is demonstrated very effectively by how upset they get when they can't have one.

Remember that all old people were once young and people have not changed much in the last few thousand years.

The law makes know what "hoony" drivers want to drive now which is no different to 10, 20, 40 or more years ago.
The amusing thing is when you are 20 years older YOU will see the sense in the class based P laws.

Another simple demonstration of this is all of the negative comments about the EB4 especially from young drivers. It is cheaper to own and operate than a I6 but is not "cool" so is not wanted.

I suspect you may disagree so please explain to me why you would rather drive a 175kw AU V8 instead of a 172kw AU VCT using only sense and logic rather than emotional aspects.

And before you start they both have the same towing capacity with the 6 using less fuel, cheaper insurance and cheaper rego (in most states) and in most magazine tests of the time the I6 was actually quicker.

[In Focus]

I was able to get an XB V8 on my P's (many years ago), and I would say I was dangerous in it.

Not saying everyone on P's would be the same, but gaining a little experience before "stepping up" doesn't hurt anyone. Personally, I think anything more than 100kw/ton is too much, but that's another story...

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by weairy

And au3xr6, I'll make the assumption you got off your P plates long before these laws, so going on about us "whinging P Platers" as you are isn't fair nor warranted.

- A P Plater abiding by the rules

yes I got off my Ps a long time ago ( probably before you were born ) and I'm sad to say my generation was probably partly to blame for todays laws . I was an idiot at times and was lucky to survive some of my foolishness . in my 20s I did 230Ks on a public road ( not bragging or proud of my actions) .
do I feel it is fair to judge others doing these things? I do my stupid actions make me understand the temptation and the mindset of these young drivers, I went to school with blokes who weren't as lucky as I was and I don't kid myself it was skill that saved me it was nothing more than luck.
remember todays cars are more powerful than what we had back then. even todays 4 bangers can go like a scalded cat the no V8 no turbo rule is maybe a bit ill conceived in as much as power to weight is not considered. rather than young drivers whinging about restrictions they should lobby for a saner approach. lobby the pollies for a P plate restriction based on power to weight. until then we have a system that works but is not optimal.
by the way I applaud you for being a P plater who obeys the rules it puts you 1 up on me as a youth

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by GT69

Anyway...back on topic.

Myself and my missus are tossing up a G6 ecoboost or a mondeo. She just needs a run around and still wants a large, comfortable car. Mondeo with TDCI helps tip the decision its way, but locally built is important to me so I think we'll go the G6.

do yourself a favour drive the G6 ecoboost. your mind will be made up as soon as you put your foot down

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

what you need to consider is that P platers are statistically a much higher risk and in days when they could drive powerful cars this risk was even greater.
You can't single out some p platers and allow others to drive what they want. for this to work you would need to know in advance who was going to drive their performance car in a dangerous manner obviously this can't be achieved so the next best thing is not allowing novice drivers to drive performance cars.

What I would propose is to make advanced driver training mandatory prior to the learner getting their P plates. It's not enough to teach drivers how to operate their vehicle from point A to point B, they need to be taught how to control the car when the proverbial hits the fan. In addition, drivers (any driver, not just P-platers) convicted of reckless driving would face restrictions on what they can drive, but those with a clean record can drive whatever the hell they want. Why? Because these restrictions are a penalty in my view, and penalities applied because they are "statistically more likely" to drive recklessly is just ... well, silly. That's as bad as locking someone up on the likelihood that they'll commit crimes ...

Originally Posted by au3xr6

if young people are dying on the roads we must not offend them with nasty "rhetoric" words like powerful cars saving lives statistically proven and whinging kids we should just let them die ( and take others out with them) after all what's a few dead kids to worry about.

To hell with statistics. The government has shown time and time again that they're not prepared to educate drivers to avoid accidents and the consequences of letting their ambition get ahead of their ability, as well as to improve all major country roads by building dual carriageways instead of the crappy highways that we have now. Instead, their solution is to "restrict" ... probably because it's the cheapest solution ...

Originally Posted by au3xr6

it's not about labelling it's about limiting those statistically proven to be too inexperienced and often too immature to drive powerful cars.

On the contrary, it has everything to do with labelling. By doing so, the government is in effect labelling all P-platers as "immature" and can't be trusted. There are immature drivers on the roads, P-platers or not. What do you suppose we do about restricting those who have been convicted of dangerous driving from driving powerful cars?

Idiots will be idiots no matter what car they drive.

Incidentally, what has the P-plater restrictions done for the proportion of 18-25 year olds in the road toll?

Originally Posted by au3xr6

yes I got off my Ps a long time ago ( probably before you were born ) and I'm sad to say my generation was probably partly to blame for todays laws . I was an idiot at times and was lucky to survive some of my foolishness . in my 20s I did 230Ks on a public road ( not bragging or proud of my actions) .
do I feel it is fair to judge others doing these things? I do my stupid actions make me understand the temptation and the mindset of these young drivers, I went to school with blokes who weren't as lucky as I was and I don't kid myself it was skill that saved me it was nothing more than luck.

Likewise. I got my licence 13 years ago, so I'm well and truly off my P-plates. Like you, I've been young and stupid, I've nearly lost it on a country road. But for a miracle I would've wrapped my car around a tree back then. But it wasn't because I was driving a car that's too powerful for me to handle. I was overtaking a semi on the wrong side of the road when its trailer swung out so I had to make evasive manoeuvres. The same thing would've happened no matter what car I was driving.

The power output of a car has nothing to do with its safety, nor does it have anything to do with the idiot behind the wheel.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

do yourself a favour drive the G6 ecoboost. your mind will be made up as soon as you put your foot down

On that, I agree. I defy anyone to drive an EcoBoost Falcon with an open mind and not be impressed by it. Throw away all preconceptions about four cylinder large cars. I think the Falcon EcoBoost is better than the six in every respect but for aural pleasure.

[Franco Cozzo]

Give it 5 years, this generation of P players has grown up without V8s, 90% of us prefer JDM cars and we're tomorrow's new car buyers.

Future looks bleak for the V8.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by flappist

You do realise that all you have demonstrated with your extensive research is that the P plate restrictions seem to be working.

Maybe they should be extended so that no one who is on P plates now will EVER be able to drive a V8 or Turbo. After all you won't miss what you have never had and as you have shown just how well it works, why change it?

Or is that also just spin doctoring statistics to support an agenda..........

To spin doctor statistics, you actually have to present some statistics. If there was anything scientifically proven, we would be discussing standard deviations and t-scores etc.

[Sprint]

Kids today are spoilt beeyaches

I was happy with my 1300 escort in my day but today they all have to have a skyline for a first car with no idea how to drive first.

Infact i refused to sell my skyline to a in experienced person.

I was like 25 before i started getting into v8,s

[TC200six]

I don't know many have mentioned this but I just saw an ad for the Ecoboost Falcon - just as everyone complains they don't advertise it.

[noosacuda]

I'm so glad i got my licence in Qld and never had to worry about P plates or restrictions at all. BTW L and P platers don't have stupid and unsafe speed restrictions placed on them up here. Back on topic a 4 cyl Falcon just doesn't appeal to me at all, psychologically a big car=big engine, a 4 cyl would be working its ring gear out to pull the weight.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

do yourself a favour drive the G6 ecoboost. your mind will be made up as soon as you put your foot down

I would actually pick the G6E first (goes without saying) but would by pass the G6 for the XT (Now just badged as Falcon EcoBoost dropping the XT). Driven all 3 and while the G6E is the pick, the Falcon looks better at the front and really has everything in it the G6 has. I enjoyed this one second.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

They use sophisticated matching as well. Address, offences, names, outstanding fines etc. So unless Little Johnny is in a mate's car... and he may not have his P-plates with him if that were the case.

This wouldn't be the same "sophisticated" system that recently caused all the speeding fines, some in high 3 digits, and summonses to be sent to elderly mobility scooter owners as they had the same rego numbers as motorcycles would it..........

As far as the EB4 vs 6 power issue, the EB4 generates more power then every I6 Falcon before BA and more torque than most 6 cylinder commodores.

[Falcman0o7]

Seen a G6 EcoBoost today parked. Very nice looking car the G6 and to think it had a 4 in it!
Next to it was a very sophisticated spark ignition direct injection direct injection commodore.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

After living in a place where p-plates don't exist, I am against them. It just creates an unnecessary label on young drivers. Judging by some of the comments, the labeling theory still holds true.

I would also imagine it makes P-platers nervous about their actions around other motorists as well... simply by wearing the plate.