"Speed Cameras" are about to get better, or worse? - Page 4

Bobman · 04-10-2008, 12:13 AM

Plenty of fatalities that occur under the posted limit. 5 km over on a major arterial road or highway makes no difference, however 5km/h in a built up shopping district during the day would in my opinion.

Also, plenty of speedometers on brand new cars under estimate. Heard a story of a Toyota Yaris under estimating the speed about 7-10kms.

The speed check cameras on the Princes Fwy and on Hume Fwy are utterly incorrect and that makes you wonder just how accurate the real speed cameras are.

That's the main problem. How can you ever trust these things? They are affected by so many things, such as signs, reflections, etc. We had the major Western Ring Road drama, which only came to light after many people complained and it gained a lot of media coverage. Had there only been a few people who had received these erroneous fines, they would have no chance appealing. The system is against the driver, even if it's wrong.

They've even made it harder to appeal these fines. Guilty until proved innocent.

Make cameras 100% reliable beyond reasonable doubt and surely more people will accept them.

Look at how many speeding fines the people who make these laws & in government agencies receive. Just goes to show the hypocrisy.

I'd rather see more focus on tail gaters, inconsiderate drivers and those who choose to drink/drug drive, over this endless speed camera campaign.

geckoGT · 04-10-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Plenty of fatalities that occur under the posted limit. 5 km over on a major arterial road or highway makes no difference, however 5km/h in a built up shopping district during the day would in my opinion.

No personal experience of sub speed limit fatalities, not one! Having said that, my personal experience is just a snap shot of what happens out there and therefore it is not impossible that sub speed limit fatalities does happen. As for the extra 5km/hr, granted it may not contribute greatly to ths accident. The thing is regardless of the environment in which you are driving, 5km/hr extra speed that your body hit object makes a lot of difference. If you would like to try it out, hit your head on a wall at 5km/hr, then when the headache clears, do this again at 10km/hr, don't worry I will be there to pick up the pieces.

Quote:

I'd rather see more focus on tail gaters, inconsiderate drivers and those who choose to drink/drug drive, over this endless speed camera campaign.

Could not agree more. The problem is these offences are harder to catch using automated equipment as they take a large degree of human judgement, therefore require a cop to be there. Hence the reason I believe that speed cameras have allowed the government to get away without putting extra police on at a similar rate to overall population growth.

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Could not agree more. The problem is these offences are harder to catch using automated equipment as they take a large degree of human judgement, therefore require a cop to be there. Hence the reason I believe that speed cameras have allowed the government to get away without putting extra police on at a similar rate to overall population growth.

I agree.

What would help is to force governments to allocate a large chunk of revenue from automated enforcement equipment back into policing. More visable, and undercover vehicles on the road, as well as increased numbers for other police matters, maybe even pay the ones that are there now a little better. Possibly even a lot more 24 hr stations. That last one cracks me up, like criminals have unionised operating hours. Even if they did, you'd think night would be a criminals best hours. Its almost like Subway closing for lunch.

geckoGT · 04-10-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

I agree.

What would help is to force governments to allocate a large chunk of revenue from automated enforcement equipment back into policing. More visable, and undercover vehicles on the road, as well as increased numbers for other police matters, maybe even pay the ones that are there now a little better. Possibly even a lot more 24 hr stations. That last one cracks me up, like criminals have unionised operating hours. Even if they did, you'd think night would be a criminals best hours. Its almost like Subway closing for lunch.

Absolutely!!!!!!

By the way, subway closing for lunch, that would cripple the paramedic service.

whingey · 04-10-2008, 08:51 AM

What I don't get is the cops set up the radar on the longest straightest dual lane stretches of road in the country.

4Vman · 04-10-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

No personal experience of sub speed limit fatalities, not one! Having said that, my personal experience is just a snap shot of what happens out there and therefore it is not impossible that sub speed limit fatalities does happen. As for the extra 5km/hr, granted it may not contribute greatly to ths accident. The thing is regardless of the environment in which you are driving, 5km/hr extra speed that your body hit object makes a lot of difference. If you would like to try it out, hit your head on a wall at 5km/hr, then when the headache clears, do this again at 10km/hr, don't worry I will be there to pick up the pieces.

Could not agree more. The problem is these offences are harder to catch using automated equipment as they take a large degree of human judgement, therefore require a cop to be there. Hence the reason I believe that speed cameras have allowed the government to get away without putting extra police on at a similar rate to overall population growth.

Yep, its funny that people conveniently disregard first hand evidence shared by people who deal with this as part of their lives.

I found it rather compelling that you hadn't attended a fatality that didnt involve excessive speed above posted limits....

Denial is a dark place....

I also strongly agree that revenue raised by donations made to speed camera infringements should go to extra policing of our roads....

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

What I don't get is the cops set up the radar on the longest straightest dual lane stretches of road in the country.

Probably because thats where people like to hit warp speed.

geckoGT · 04-10-2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

What I don't get is the cops set up the radar on the longest straightest dual lane stretches of road in the country.

Must be a hard concept.

That is because that is where more people put the foot down and traffic has the higher average speed = more people breaking the law = more control mechanisms. If they only put them on blind corners you would be complaining that they were concealed and thats entrapment etc.

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Absolutely!!!!!!

By the way, subway closing for lunch, that would cripple the paramedic service.

I havent gone in one since they dumped the Satay Sub. The heathens!

geckoGT · 04-10-2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep, its funny that people conveniently disregard first hand evidence shared by people who deal with this as part of their lives.

I found it rather compelling that you hadn't attended a fatality that didnt involve excessive speed above posted limits....

Denial is a dark place....

We all know this is not the only place arm chair experts know better than those that do it as a profession.

balthazarr · 04-10-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep, its funny that people conveniently disregard first hand evidence shared by people who deal with this as part of their lives.

I found it rather compelling that you hadn't attended a fatality that didnt involve excessive speed above posted limits....

Denial is a dark place....

I also strongly agree that revenue raised by donations made to speed camera infringements should go to extra policing of our roads....

I'm not denying anything. I absolutely agree that excessive speeding is a one way ticket to carnage, especially if it's done in the wrong area. This behaviour should absolutely be clamped down on, and clamped down hard.

Having said that, as others have already mentioned, the (IMHO) excessive reliance on cameras does very little to prevent this (and other stupid acts) behaviour (where the real risk lies)... which is why it irritates me when Eastlink puts up obnoxious flashing signs saying "Cameras Cut Crashes" (ironically, causing a distraction to drivers).

Doing 104 on a three-lane road, with ample room between you and the car in front, is hardly going to have any appreciable effect on your risk of having an accident.

Doing 100 in a 60 zone, with other cars and pedestrians about, certainly will.

The cameras treat both of these situations the same (yes, yes, I know the penalty is different... I'm talking about the 'breach' of the law), I would hope that any decent cop would look at these two situations, and realise the first, though a technical breach of the law, does not deserve punishment... as for the second. Lock 'em up and throw away the key.

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 12:59 PM

I love on Main North Road in Adelaide two intersections in a row have red light speed cameras. You can watch drivers sit on 100, put on the brakes to drive through the first intersection, speed back up, then brake again to go through the next one

whingey · 04-10-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruise

I love on Main North Road in Adelaide two intersections in a row have red light speed cameras. You can watch drivers sit on 100, put on the brakes to drive through the first intersection, speed back up, then brake again to go through the next one

That is SO true, when people know where the cameras are they slow down then just floor it when they're past them. In the old days (when cops drove minis) they could be reasoned with, you could (sometimes) talk to them person to person and not like the automatons the academy produces these days. It seems to me at least, the cops have had their personalities removed in place of a ticket writing machine that will not listen to reason. I got a ticket recently and the whole time I was explaining that I hadn't ever been booked, he just continued to keep writing until I put my hand on the ticket book and said "at least have the courtesy to stop writing while explain why I was doing 9 kph over the limit". Can you guess the outcome? Didn't matter, I wrote a letter and beat it.

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

That is SO true, when people know where the cameras are they slow down then just floor it when they're past them. In the old days (when cops drove minis) they could be reasoned with, you could (sometimes) talk to them person to person and not like the automatons the academy produces these days. It seems to me at least, the cops have had their personalities removed in place of a ticket writing machine that will not listen to reason. I got a ticket recently and the whole time I was explaining that I hadn't ever been booked, he just continued to keep writing until I put my hand on the ticket book and said "at least have the courtesy to stop writing while explain why I was doing 9 kph over the limit". Can you guess the outcome? Didn't matter, I wrote a letter and beat it.

I got a ticket about 3 months ago and the copper almost drove off with my license sitting on the drivers seat!!! He spoke With a thick Irish accent and I swear this guy was no older than 25. But yes, he was just a ticket writing robot like the rest of them

4Vman · 04-10-2008, 01:56 PM

Maybe the Police have been replaced by cameras because they've got absolutely fed up with having to put up with and deal with sniveling, whining, brain dead morons who refuse to take responsibility for their inability to follow even the most basic traffic laws and try to talk their way out of everything with either pathetic excuses or abuse.....

Maybe speed cameras have made the work place safer for Police by eliminating face to face confrontation......

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe the Police have been replaced by cameras because they've got absolutely fed up with having to put up with and deal with sniveling, whining, brain dead morons who refuse to take responsibility for their inability to follow even the most basic traffic laws and try to talk their way out of everything with either pathetic excuses or abuse.....

You can't tell me all people are that bad.

4Vman · 04-10-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruise

You can't tell me all people are that bad.

No, not at all, in fact the vast majority of people are genuinely decent law abiding people, The Police never seem to need to pull them over though do they... so i doubt the Police would need to deal with "genuinely decent law abiding people" very often if at all and if they do and you're polite and obey their requests without lip or attitude i bet the encounter is brief and courteous..

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

No, not at all, in fact the vast majority of people are genuinely decent law abiding people, The Police never seem to need to pull them over though do they... so i doubt the Police would need to deal with "genuinely decent law abiding people" very often if at all and if they do and you're polite and obey their requests without lip or attitude i bet the encounter is brief and courteous..

Right, so all those people that got pulled over for doing less than 10k over the speed limit are ar seholse?

whingey · 04-10-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

No, not at all, in fact the vast majority of people are genuinely decent law abiding people, The Police never seem to need to pull them over though do they... so i doubt the Police would need to deal with "genuinely decent law abiding people" very often if at all and if they do and you're polite and obey their requests without lip or attitude i bet the encounter is brief and courteous..

I seriously doubt that being polite and courteous would make any difference when it comes to the highway patrol. The highway patrol are the automatons I was referring to, the general duties guys are a pretty good bunch. Also I DO try to stay within the speed limit, the one time I get caught he was parked (hidden) at the bottom of a 60 degree incline hill. I find it difficult to believe that the officer who ticketed me was less inclined to let me off with a warning than the State Debt Recovery office who said "pfffsh, forget about, 9 Ks, is that all?"

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

In the old days (when cops drove minis) they could be reasoned with, you could (sometimes) talk to them person to person and not like the automatons the academy produces these days. It seems to me at least, the cops have had their personalities removed in place of a ticket writing machine that will not listen to reason. I got a ticket recently and the whole time I was explaining that I hadn't ever been booked, he just continued to keep writing until I put my hand on the ticket book and said "at least have the courtesy to stop writing while explain why I was doing 9 kph over the limit". Can you guess the outcome? Didn't matter, I wrote a letter and beat it.

Reason? What, let me off let me off? You call that reason? You dont even seem to comprehend the notion the law says 9km over is an offence penalisable by a fine, everyone else lives with it, and you cant, and you talk of reason, HELLO. He is not your mum, he owes you nothing. The fact you felt the right to place your hand on his ticket book astounds me.

Oh, those radar detectors youre flogging dont seem to be all that great if you got pinged.

Maybe try laying on the floor and kicking next time.

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

I seriously doubt that being polite and courteous would make any difference when it comes to the highway patrol. The highway patrol are the automatons I was referring to, the general duties guys are a pretty good bunch. Also I DO try to stay within the speed limit, the one time I get caught he was parked (hidden) at the bottom of a 60 degree incline hill. I find it difficult to believe that the officer who ticketed me was less inclined to let me off with a warning than the State Debt Recovery office who said "pfffsh, forget about, 9 Ks, is that all?"

In England You can be done for doing 77 M/PH in a 70 zone and they still use that "pfffsh, forget about, 7 miles, is that all?" attitude.
They concentrate on the bigger problems, tailgating, drink driving etc.

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Reason? What, let me off let me off? You call that reason? You dont even seem to comprehend the notion the law says 9km over is an offence penalisable by a fine, everyone else lives with it, and you cant, and you talk of reason, HELLO. He is not your mum, he owes you nothing. The fact you felt the right to place your hand on his ticket book astounds me.

Oh, those radar detectors youre flogging dont seem to be all that great if you got pinged.

Maybe try laying on the floor and kicking next time.

Yes because driving 9 K/MH over the limit makes you worse than hitler :rolleyes:

whingey · 04-10-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Reason? What, let me off let me off? You call that reason? You dont even seem to comprehend the notion the law says 9km over is an offence penalisable by a fine, everyone else lives with it, and you cant, and you talk of reason, HELLO. He is not your mum, he owes you nothing. The fact you felt the right to place your hand on his ticket book astounds me.

Oh, those radar detectors youre flogging dont seem to be all that great if you got pinged.

Maybe try laying on the floor and kicking next time.

So by your reckoning there is no leniency in any way shape or form. God forbid you were in an ambulance dying of something on the way to the hospital!! "But your honour, I only sped to save someones life" Tough pal, the law is the law! Gees you sound like JUDGE DRED. If the letter of the law is to be followed unbendingly then the jails would be full of jay walkers and public urinators. There HAS to be leniency otherwise we'd be living in a totalitarian society. Next you'll be cutting kids hands off stealing a lolly.

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruise

Yes because driving 9 K/MH over the limit makes you worse than hitler :rolleyes:

Hitler would have faced war crimes trial and execution. Way to over dramatise the situation you face. Not looking any less like little kiddies chucking a hissy fit.

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

So by your reckoning there is no leniency in any way shape or form. God forbid you were in an ambulance dying of something on the way to the hospital!! "But your honour, I only sped to save someones life" Tough pal, the law is the law! Gees you sound like JUDGE DRED. If the letter of the law is to be followed unbendingly then the jails would be full of jay walkers and public urinators. There HAS to be leniency otherwise we'd be living in a totalitarian society. Next you'll be cutting kids hands off stealing a lolly.

I thought there was an minimum age for signing up here. Ambulances arent getting pulled over when their lights and sirens are blaring, are they? Police are not OBLIGATED to show you any leniency, you seem to think they are.

Again with the drama queens. Its a fine, A FINE.

whingey · 04-10-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Hitler would have faced war crimes trial and execution. Way to over dramatise the situation you face. Not looking any less like little kiddies chucking a hissy fit.

I think he meant Brad Fittlers younger brother...Adolf

Cruise · 04-10-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

I thought there was an minimum age for signing up here. Ambulances arent getting pulled over when their lights and sirens are blaring, are they? Police are not OBLIGATED to show you any leniency, you seem to think they are.

Again with the drama queens. Its a fine, A FINE.

It seems you are a real stickler for the rules.
Ok i propose this, If you are trying to get your pregnant wife to the hospital (who is having contractions) You better not bloody bend the rules

Oh, and i am well above the mininum age for signing up thank you.

whingey · 04-10-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

I thought there was an minimum age for signing up here. Ambulances arent getting pulled over when their lights and sirens are blaring, are they? Police are not OBLIGATED to show you any leniency, you seem to think they are.

Again with the drama queens. Its a fine, A FINE.

Let me put it in terms even you can understand. What you're saying: If you exceed the speed limit at any time then there should be some sort of infringement notice handed to the driver? Does that sound right? Well you'd better hire more police because they gonna be pretty busy writing tickets. Listen carefully, I think the police do an excellent job, they have some of the most unenviable jobs known to man. BUT they also need to look at the big picture, sometimes circumstances beyond our control force us, very occasionally, to go over the set limit. These are the times where COMMON SENSE should apply. If some P plater is doing 180kph then he deserves what he gets. BUT if you have to speed up to avoid an accident (for example) then common sense should prevail.

whingey · 04-10-2008, 03:04 PM

Words I live by...

It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education than to have education without common sense.

Robert Green Ingersoll

Common sense is the knack of seeing things as they are, and doing things as they ought to be done.

Harriet Beecher Stowe

fmc351 · 04-10-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whingey

Let me put it in terms even you can understand. What you're saying: If you exceed the speed limit at any time then there should be some sort of infringement notice handed to the driver? Does that sound right? Well you'd better hire more police because they gonna be pretty busy writing tickets. Listen carefully, I think the police do an excellent job, they have some of the most unenviable jobs known to man. BUT they also need to look at the big picture, sometimes circumstances beyond our control force us, very occasionally, to go over the set limit. These are the times where COMMON SENSE should apply. If some P plater is doing 180kph then he deserves what he gets. BUT if you have to speed up to avoid an accident (for example) then common sense should prevail.

English, it's a great language, you should learn it sometime.

I said, LENIENCY, you think they OWE it. THEY DONT. Using examples of saving lives, or avoiding accidents is not the same as I was doing 9km over and the 'ignant' copper wouldn't let me off. Heres some common sense, theres a fine possible if you go over the limit, dont go over it. Think on it for a few minutes.

Now Im going to let you kiddies get back to playing ambulance in your cardboard box, try to keep the "beer bar beer bar" down a little.