Britain has voted to leave the EU

[elysian50]

Britain may have voted to leave the EU but so far that's all she's done, she hasn't gone anywhere yet. The losers are already pushing for another immediate referendum, if you can get your head around that!

[chamb0]

Nigel Farage raised the idea of a second referendum himself last month, saying that if the Leave side lost by a narrow margin, 48-52, they wouldn't let it rest. "It would be "unfinished business by a long way." Not surprising considering how deeply held the convictions are on both sides.

[Peterwl]

An interesting aspect to the Brexit is the voting age demographic.

A vast majority of the young generation wanted to stay in and revel in EU socialism, and the majority of older voters wanted out.

The older people remember what it was like when Britain governed Britain.

The younger ones only know about the current arrangements.

You could extend this scenario to all current politics in general.

Even in Australia, the older generation remembers a time when Australia used to have good government and competent institutions.

[Trump]

That is a very astute observation Peter. I was thinking just that as I was going over the breakdown of the voting. It speaks volumes about the entitlement mentality if of Gen Y/Z.

[tranquilized]

I'll disclose up front that I'm not across any of the nuances in this debate. I heard the referendum was happening but dismissed it - surely not! I thought...

Anyway, it seems the Murdoch press have continued their tradition of reporting news in an entirely balanced and fair way. This was their stance on the vote; (The fact that "news"papers even have a stance is a disgrace)



"Brexit is a victory for people against the establishment"

Doubt it...

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Peterwl

An interesting aspect to the Brexit is the voting age demographic.

A vast majority of the young generation wanted to stay in and revel in EU socialism, and the majority of older voters wanted out.

The older people remember what it was like when Britain governed Britain.

The younger ones only know about the current arrangements.

You could extend this scenario to all current politics in general.

Even in Australia, the older generation remembers a time when Australia used to have good government and competent institutions.

Very true. Voter turnout at the young end was very poor. If they all cared that much and voted the result may well have been very different. No compulsory voting like we have.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by russellw

What mind altering substances are you on?

Let's have a little rest from your ranting.

Russ

I am a Hebrew and I know what them numbers represent as a fact, it's in no way a rant, just pointing out what the numbers represent, to old mate's reply.

I don't take drugs or support such degenerate rubbish at all, would you say that to me in person Russ, I don't think so ! do you think you truly would, think about that.
I find your post very offensive, sorry but not to mention the fact of just disregarding things like the millions who were starved to death in the Ukraine as it's a historical fact.

The last post you gave to me you claimed that to me as well, fact was it was a joke to gauge a reaction to see where people were coming from, who were in fact wrong in there childish assumption of who was truly who, rejecting a police officers true position, is madness, you do realise that don't you.

[mik]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

Very true. Voter turnout at the young end was very poor. If they all cared that much and voted the result may well have been very different. No compulsory voting like we have.

probably right, by the same token , it probably would have still happened at a later date , there is a lot of ill feeling , particularly about immigration issues.
i dont know a lot about it , but it did seem to be a bit out of control if whats in the media is anything to go by.

going back to Pererwl`s earlier post with the state of many countries now and what they where like 20/30/40/50 years ago , the world was a different place ,
using Australia as an example , we pretty much owned most of our own stuff , al of our utilities we did in house , in Victoria we had the gas and fuel corp, SEC(state Electricity Commission) , local councils , etc ,etc ,
selling **** off and getting dudes from other countries to make roads and then charge the public for them as it happens today , was rare or just did not happen as far as i know or can remember anyway.

if you had a job in the council , often it was a job for many years , or even for life, job security imo was considerably better on the whole , services where better , in some ways life was still hard yakka , but it was better imo.

look around today , services we once had are different or even non existant , or run by a private mob ,
so many in the work force are now casuals , even the quality of gov/state services in many respects sucks .
i go for a drive across my suburb , look at the privately run power system , have a look at the light and power poles , try and count how many there are on severe angles/ leaning badly ................... it doesnt work , you would be better off counting the ones that are straight , because there are bloody not many off them.
we all have video players and computers and cheap big imported tvs , we think our standard of living is good , and as far as having lots of cool gadgets we probably are ,

but then when you look at what everything costs and the level of debt A. for the country , B. debt for the average joe , and C. the amount of people on welfare or just struggling doing casual work which imo is only going to get worse ..... and rubbery figures by the powers that be dont really tell the true story .
I suspect its the same turn of events in GB but further on and probably worse , the difference may be , they dont have as much resources to fall back on due to the small land mass like we do , but thats coming to an end for us .
a lot of it is wealth relocation , and standard of living , haves and have nots .
poverty brings war and unhappiness , which also comes back to immigration .

[Trump]

Originally Posted by mik

probably right, by the same token , it probably would have still happened at a later date , there is a lot of ill feeling , particularly about immigration issues.
i dont know a lot about it , but it did seem to be a bit out of control if whats in the media is anything to go by.

going back to Pererwl`s earlier post with the state of many countries now and what they where like 20/30/40/50 years ago , the world was a different place ,
using Australia as an example , we pretty much owned most of our own stuff , al of our utilities we did in house , in Victoria we had the gas and fuel corp, SEC(state Electricity Commission) , local councils , etc ,etc ,
selling **** off and getting dudes from other countries to make roads and then charge the public for them as it happens today , was rare or just did not happen as far as i know or can remember anyway.

if you had a job in the council , often it was a job for many years , or even for life, job security imo was considerably better on the whole , services where better , in some ways life was still hard yakka , but it was better imo.

look around today , services we once had are different or even non existant , or run by a private mob ,
so many in the work force are now casuals , even the quality of gov/state services in many respects sucks .
i go for a drive across my suburb , look at the privately run power system , have a look at the light and power poles , try and count how many there are on severe angles/ leaning badly ................... it doesnt work , you would be better off counting the ones that are straight , because there are bloody not many off them.
we all have video players and computers and cheap big imported tvs , we think our standard of living is good , and as far as having lots of cool gadgets we probably are ,

but then when you look at what everything costs and the level of debt A. for the country , B. debt for the average joe , and C. the amount of people on welfare or just struggling doing casual work which imo is only going to get worse ..... and rubbery figures by the powers that be dont really tell the true story .
I suspect its the same turn of events in GB but further on and probably worse , the difference may be , they dont have as much resources to fall back on due to the small land mass like we do , but thats coming to an end for us .
a lot of it is wealth relocation , and standard of living , haves and have nots .
poverty brings war and unhappiness , which also comes back to immigration .

You raise some good points Mik, perceived wealth masks the true state of the nation, especially here in Australia.

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

So superyob, as per the article you'd linked and your statement on "defend(ing)... western culture", where do you stand on:

* Shouting "fking Pakkis"
* Shouting "GO HOME" at brown people
* Posting "No more <non-anglo> vermin" through letterboxes of <non-anglo> residents, left on car windows and near a school
* Graffiti saying "GET OUT" is OK to scrawl on the front doors of a <non-anglo> cultural centre

I think I'd call those acts 'racist' and 'hate speech'...

Even though it may bring out the racist mob in society, most of those that voted to leave were sick of having Brussels determining everything for them without their input. That does include the EU turning the UK into a people dumping ground, along with Germany.

[asagaai]

[QUOTE=mik;5705223]
look around today , services we once had are different or even non existant , or run by a private mob ,
so many in the work force are now casuals , even the quality of gov/state services in many respects sucks .
i go for a drive across my suburb , look at the privately run power system , have a look at the light and power poles , try and count how many there are on severe angles/ leaning badly ................... it doesnt work , you would be better off counting the ones that are straight , because there are bloody not many off them.
QUOTE]

Good post Mik.

I did legal work years ago for a massive government owned national utility company that provided services. Following the privatisation model, the company started outsourcing more and more services.

I ran many cases for them, and an inhouse expert was an engineer who had worked for them his whole life. He explained to me outsourcing involved getting inexperienced people doing the jobs for the lowest price, and corners were cut and the experience was no longer there.

Seems that the corporate share market model is for quick profit but long term there is a sting in the scorpions tail in terms of skill bleed, erosion and deterioration that is hidden of infrastructure etc etc.

The capitalist corporate sharemarket model has some benefits but is not perfect ....bit like our system of politics being short term with a scorpion tail sting waiting to poison the nation over time.....

[nuthin' fancy]

Stick to the topic of Brexit. Politics and religion tolerated only at mod's discretion.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Even though it may bring out the racist mob in society, most of those that voted to leave were sick of having Brussels determining everything for them without their input. That does include the EU turning the UK into a people dumping ground, along with Germany.

So England joined the EU in 1973. Here's some numbers on their immigration figures since 1971:

Year Non-UK-born Pop. % of total population
1971 3,190,300 5.8
1981 3,429,100 6.2
1991 3,835,400 6.7
2001 4,896,600 8.3
2011 7,505,000 11.9
2015 8,461,102 13.1

Source: good ol' wiki

So the immigration figures haven't jumped dramatically at any point in time over the past 45 years. I hardly see how the UK has become a "dumping ground" for EU nations, especially when:

Of the top 10 migrant population numbers in the UK, only 3 of the top 10 are EU nations (Poland, Germany, Ireland).

Through 10-20, only 3 of these are EU nations (Italy, France, Lithuania)

Through 20-30, only 4 of these are EU nations (Portugal, Spain, Romania, Cyprus)

The UK being an EU member has really turned the UK into a "dumping ground"

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

So England joined the EU in 1973. Here's some numbers on their immigration figures since 1971:

Year Non-UK-born Pop. % of total population
1971 3,190,300 5.8
1981 3,429,100 6.2
1991 3,835,400 6.7
2001 4,896,600 8.3
2011 7,505,000 11.9
2015 8,461,102 13.1

Source: good ol' wiki

So the immigration figures haven't jumped dramatically at any point in time over the past 45 years. I hardly see how the UK has become a "dumping ground" for EU nations, especially when:

Of the top 10 migrant population numbers in the UK, only 3 of the top 10 are EU nations (Poland, Germany, Ireland).

Through 10-20, only 3 of these are EU nations (Italy, France, Lithuania)

Through 20-30, only 4 of these are EU nations (Portugal, Spain, Romania, Cyprus)

The UK being an EU member has really turned the UK into a "dumping ground"

I think Loud Noises was referring to the UK being open to any country, not just EU nations...

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by superyob

I think Loud Noises was referring to the UK being open to any country, not just EU nations...

Originally Posted by Loud Noises

...the EU turning the UK into a people dumping ground...

As for immigration and the UK in general:

Source: EU Immigration Portal http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who-...ional-rules_en

Exceptions to EU-wide rules

Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies.

[superyob]

So immigration was not the sole cause of Brexit. As Loud Noises posted, maybe being ruled by a consortium of detached ideologues from a foreign land was unpalatable...

[mcflux]

Regardless it still begs the question: where does immigration fit into Brexit?

[superyob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2D8MB5s8Jg

Hitler finds out that Britain has left the EU!!!

[mik]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Regardless it still begs the question: where does immigration fit into Brexit?

Well ,again i believe it might come back to standard of living , employment, poverty, etc at least a big part of it ,
partly due to automation , many jobs are just not there any more , and with the global trading perhaps manufacturing is on the way out in uk like it is here as well .
Immigration may not be huge numbers , but it really doesnt need to be ,
if times are tuff people see other people kicking on with a job , especially if they are out of towners /refugees/ or non natives , those born there they will start getting agro thinking , why are we not looking after our born here citizens before the blow ins ..
Its only natural , the old saying charity begins at home.

Probably a lot of the youngens cant envisage just how many jobs are gone compared to the old days ,
just for an example decades ago you would drive through the big smoke in the early hours and see teams of council workers with brooms and wheelie bins cleaning the streets , these days one little street sweeper can do the job of many , and that is only one example .
i`m sure you could find many many examples , more than likely imo , the root cause leaving the euro is about unhappiness with the lower class , ie : the haves and have nots .

[superyob]

Originally Posted by mik

Well ,again i believe it might come back to standard of living , employment, poverty, etc at least a big part of it ,
partly due to automation , many jobs are just not there any more , and with the global trading perhaps manufacturing is on the way out in uk like it is here as well .
Immigration may not be huge numbers , but it really doesnt need to be ,
if times are tuff people see other people kicking on with a job , especially if they are out of towners /refugees/ or non natives , those born there they will start getting agro thinking , why are we not looking after our born here citizens before the blow ins ..
Its only natural , the old saying charity begins at home.

Probably a lot of the youngens cant envisage just how many jobs are gone compared to the old days ,
just for an example decades ago you would drive through the big smoke in the early hours and see teams of council workers with brooms and wheelie bins cleaning the streets , these days one little street sweeper can do the job of many , and that is only one example .
i`m sure you could find many many examples , more than likely imo , the root cause leaving the euro is about unhappiness with the lower class , ie : the haves and have nots .

Mik, could it also be about people needing a common enemy to unite them, despite the best kum-by-yah efforts of certain sections of society to white wash all real problems away? Human nature will always zero in on what it likes and does not like. The EU was a perceived enemy despite the best attempts of others to convince otherwise...?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by superyob

Mik, could it also be about people needing a common enemy to unite them, despite the best kum-by-yah efforts of certain sections of society to white wash all real problems away? Human nature will always zero in on what it likes and does not like. The EU was a perceived enemy despite the best attempts of others to convince otherwise...?

Any organisation that seeks to centralise power and consolidate legislative capacity is not working in the interests of the people.

[mik]

Originally Posted by superyob

Mik, could it also be about people needing a common enemy to unite them, despite the best kum-by-yah efforts of certain sections of society to white wash all real problems away? Human nature will always zero in on what it likes and does not like. The EU was a perceived enemy despite the best attempts of others to convince otherwise...?

Could be that too, but I'm still thinking it is more likely the simple things.
i can remember working as a sub contractor trucking years ago, there was about 30 trucks in our yard, when there was plenty of work everybody was Happy, everybody got along , when times got tuff, blokes started getting mean.
Hard times will do it every time.

Human nature is very predictable imo, when money gets tight, and there's not a lot of light at the end of the tunnel, people's attitudes change real quick.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Any organisation that seeks to centralise power and consolidate legislative capacity is not working in the interests of the people.

Agree 100% with that statement.

But what confuses me is why it's predominately conservative politicians and commentators who are all for Brexit. Murdoch put in a huge campaign to get the vote through.

These are not people working in the interests of the people, so what's the go?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Agree 100% with that statement.

But what confuses me is why it's predominately conservative politicians and commentators who are all for Brexit. Murdoch put in a huge campaign to get the vote through.

These are not people working in the interests of the people, so what's the go?

Because they are being directed to employ the Hegelian dialectic: they create a problem, they get a reaction from the masses and they offer a "solution".

[castellan]

The UK will be a biggest winner in all this you know.

The media have been ranting a load of rubbish.

The EU is a drain on the UK and all, as it is about 21% of all receipts, so it will only power on.

The Scotland ranting is stupid as there solvency is dependant on subsidies by the UK and all, so Scotland will not be welcomed into the EU any road, because they are not a help to the EU.

The people have came out and voted as there democratic right and all we hear is only a load of trash from degenerates, toffs and stuck up people who's ignorance contempt in disrespect the peoples right and democracy in action.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Because they are being directed to employ the Hegelian dialectic: they create a problem, they get a reaction from the masses and they offer a "solution".

Learn something new everyday...

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by superyob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2D8MB5s8Jg

Hitler finds out that Britain has left the EU!!!

It's funny, but its also not completely inaccurate.
More so with the Euro (which Britain never joined) but people are annoyed, in that they feel that yet again Germany is trying to control Europe. (I'm not attacking Germany or saying I agree, but that is how some Brits look at it.)

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

So England joined the EU in 1973. Here's some numbers on their immigration figures since 1971:

Year Non-UK-born Pop. % of total population
1971 3,190,300 5.8
1981 3,429,100 6.2
1991 3,835,400 6.7
2001 4,896,600 8.3
2011 7,505,000 11.9
2015 8,461,102 13.1

Source: good ol' wiki

So the immigration figures haven't jumped dramatically at any point in time over the past 45 years. I hardly see how the UK has become a "dumping ground" for EU nations, especially when:

Of the top 10 migrant population numbers in the UK, only 3 of the top 10 are EU nations (Poland, Germany, Ireland).

Through 10-20, only 3 of these are EU nations (Italy, France, Lithuania)

Through 20-30, only 4 of these are EU nations (Portugal, Spain, Romania, Cyprus)

The UK being an EU member has really turned the UK into a "dumping ground"

From the same source:

The period between 2001 and 2010 saw significant change in the UK's foreign-born population. In particular, the 2004 and 2007 enlargements of the European Union have led to mass migration from Bulgaria, Latvia, Romania, Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania. The number of Poland-born people resident in the UK increased from 60,711 in 2001 to an estimated 532,000 in the year to December 2010, whilst the population born in Lithuania increased from 4,363 to an estimated 87,000.

And overall, you're missing the point.

Firstly, it doesn't really matter what statistics say. What matters in the public perception, and the FACT is that public perception of these issues is what drove part of the exit vote.

Secondly, its actually not about immigration as such, and certainly not about immigration as a portion of the total population. It's about JOBS. The issue being that people leave their families behind in Poland and come to the UK to work, where they will work harder and longer for less than the Poms (because with the strength of the Stirling they still make a lot more than they would in Poland.) And again, whether there are a thousand or a million Poles doing this, its about perception.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

From the same source:
And overall, you're missing the point.

Firstly, it doesn't really matter what statistics say. What matters in the public perception, and the FACT is that public perception of these issues is what drove part of the exit vote.

Secondly, its actually not about immigration as such, and certainly not about immigration as a portion of the total population. It's about JOBS. The issue being that people leave their families behind in Poland and come to the UK to work, where they will work harder and longer for less than the Poms (because with the strength of the Stirling they still make a lot more than they would in Poland.) And again, whether there are a thousand or a million Poles doing this, its about perception.

Indeed mate, jobs are a biggy , no job = no money = poverty , any way you slice it it comes back to the standard of living .....
the gold standard above all else is not about being able to own a ferrari or a lambo or a ford GT , it is about being able to hold a job , pay the bills live a reasonable life with your family with some dignity , when there is a threat to that simple requirement people will rebel .

[HTCURRY]

Someone above said...the stats don't matter, it's all about perception.

True and the perception is something the gutter tabloids have been pounding away at for a long time - want an example?



I also notice there are a few people here chomping at the bit thinking the days of 'Rule Britannia' were upon the English AGAIN.

WRONG.

The Brexit - Leave voters have been duped. As can be seen by the Tories now saying, we want to leave the EU - but, we still want access to the single market. Brilliant.

One problem - the EU has explicitly said - if you want access to the single market, free movement of people and goods must continue. Not to mention, you have to PAY IN to gain access to the single market.

Alternatively, the Europeans have said - we'll give you access to the single market and let you control movement of people...BUT - we will take away your financial passports.

What does this mean?

London is the banking capital of the world and this accounts for 7% of the British economy - these international banks/companies/financial institutions benefit hugely from the 'universal laws'. For ease of business, if these 'passports' are taken away, they will leave London/the UK.

In essence - "you get less Poles, but we want your banks."

Lastly - everyone already in the country will be 'grandfathered in'....so, no Poles or Europeans will actually be leaving.

The following are promises - Farage, Johnson and Gove - the biggest public advocates of the Brexit campaign - made during the campaign and what they have already gone back on in less than a week.



Oh and their 'Finance Minister' said this...

George Osborne has said that the government will "absolutely" have to cut public spending and raise taxes following Friday's referendum decision to leave the European Union.

The chancellor said it is key that Britain provides fiscal stability in the wake of the Brexit decision.

"We are in a prolonged period of economic adjustment in the UK, we are adjusting to life outside the EU and it will not be as economically rosy as life inside the EU," he told BBC Radio 4.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2016-...d-raise-taxes/

So taxes will go up and public spending aka welfare/benefits etc will have to be cut.

Hmmm....I wonder who this tax rise will hit? The big corporations? Murdoch? Not a chance...and the cuts? Who is going to lose out on them? Again...the poor.

Wait who was Brexit meant to benefit and who voted for it in the largest numbers? The working classes, the poor, the unskilled...

It's not all doom and gloom and the UK is not going to become some 3rd world country - but the people who voted leave have been very badly misled as to what they will gain by leaving.

[HTCURRY]

................