Wheels re-test GTS & GT-F on the dyno

[Franco Cozzo]

I know a guy with a hub dyno out in Gisborne, should test it out here in the Macedon Ranges where its nice and cold maybe the overboost thing will kick in and we will see a nice big figure at the rears.

[Robos F6]

Originally Posted by goldxrdamo

Maybe it is faster or maybe it isn't. But to date it hasn't been. Why is everyone saying wait until it gets in the hands of someone who can drive when it was the same people that ran the faster numbers in the Rspec.
and the gtf has been on the same dynos as alot of regular 335s and made the same numbers.
Don't really know why everyone is getting so defensive about it. If it has the extra power then it probably will be .2 seconds faster but it isn't.
When it is I believe it but so far it hasn't happened.

Exactly, every test so far has the GTS beating the GTF regardless, no ifs or butts. Auto or manual, GTS still wins. If you want dyno queen get the GTF, if you want to win on the track, get the GTS.

[BHDOGS]

So were all agreed the gtf is the most powerful Aussie Car made excellent

[Chopped]

Why do manufacturers quote the fwkws ?

"theoretically" the GTS is the most powerful Aussie made car at the flywheel (apparently) , which is what is quoted by manufacturers.

I still think the GT-F and GTS are about the same at the flywheel but the GTS saps more power through the heavier duty drivetrain.

The real question is how come the GT-F isn't out performing the R-Spec.

[fgpsi]

How can an RSpec be faster than the GT-F

You'll see when guys on here take them to the drags, will be much faster than what people got with r spec. Don't worry about the lard **** wheels testers

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

How can an RSpec be faster than the GT-F

You'll see when guys on here take them to the drags, will be much faster than what people got with r spec. Don't worry about the lard **** wheels testers

It's a valid question, one the fastest r spec times is by a journo, and he couldn't match or better that time in a gtf...


Has ford played the badge game but actually changed nothing? Maybe just pulled back some of the torque tags a little so it feels a bit faster?

Was it one of the early hsv's, that went from 185 to 195 and the only actual change was the numbers on the car? Hope ford hasn't t akin a leaf out of their book.

This was always the risk with understating the 335 by such a huge amount, a later model badged with a slightly higher number many not actually be any faster or more powerful.

People with 335s wondering if it's possible to get the 351 tune, well, maybe they already have it?

[FTE]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Was it one of the early hsv's, that went from 185 to 195 and the only actual change was the numbers on the car? Hope ford hasn't t akin a leaf out of their book.
?

Actually the 195i wasn't even close internally to a 185i. Wasn't even the same engine as the 179 roller cam VT it was based on. The 195i shared the same components as the 220i GTS stroker engine minus the crank so if you ordered a 195i enhancement it had to be done at the factory due to the internal changes, not at dealer level like the 185i where it changed air box and exhaust only

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by goldxrdamo

Maybe it is faster or maybe it isn't. But to date it hasn't been. Why is everyone saying wait until it gets in the hands of someone who can drive when it was the same people that ran the faster numbers in the Rspec.
and the gtf has been on the same dynos as alot of regular 335s and made the same numbers.
Don't really know why everyone is getting so defensive about it. If it has the extra power then it probably will be .2 seconds faster but it isn't.
When it is I believe it but so far it hasn't happened.

Why is everyone saying wait?

Few reasons.

1. It took a while for journos to get that 4.5 out of the rspec.
2. No car has had too much of a chance to loosen up yet.
3. There are lots of rspec times in lots of conditions, some slower some faster, gtf needs to get a similar sample size.
4. Ford have done a lot of testing and recon .2, I'm willing to wait and see.
5. What do you have to loose by waiting for good sample data.

In short its a bit early to be saying wild things like "ford did nothing" or "gtf is slower than rspec".

Apart from your arguments being a contradiction (it can't be slower if they did nothing, its at least as fast) its too early to say.

You ask why we wanna wait, but why are you in such a rush to declare rspec faster?

[1TUFFUTE]

I'm pretty sure it's obvious that the limiting factor to the rspec....gt335 or GTF is the tyres. There's only so much grip you can get.....you can have all the power In the world. I'd imagine the GTF tunes benefits would be noticed at track days if anything.
And rodge.....I didn't realize you drive your Chrysler on your favourite back roads at ten tenths like they do when they do lap times at tracks.(smack yourself in the face bro)

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Track times give you a far better indication on how well these cars handle your favourite twisty back country roads

Are you on drugs Rodge? You can't be serious saying smooth racetracks with great grip levels are anything remotely similar to twisting bumpy mountain roads?

[BadMax]

blah blah blah...****ing contest all over again!

Who cares over some ****y dyno test, c'mon really...get over it!

[lucas2]

335 to 351 is only a 4-5% difference, and with the same peak torque I doubt there will be much, if any noticeable consistent time differences between an R-Spec and a GT-F. I'd say external conditions would play a much larger difference in times than a 4.5% power increase.

[SensationFG8]

Agreed Lucas, seems odd for so many people to be labeling it the second fastest ford is all I'm really getting at. Guess trolls be trolls tho...

[BENT_8]

Yawn...will they just run them at Bathurst and be done with.

Its the only numbers I care about.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Are you on drugs Rodge? You can't be serious saying smooth racetracks with great grip levels are anything remotely similar to twisting bumpy mountain roads?

You haven't driven on Pukekohe racetrack have you Trev...I spent a lot of time on there with the Auckland university motorcycle club when I was younger and its anything but smooth.

Peak horsepower at peak revs in certain conditions when you can coax over-boost out of an engine is one thing, power and torque advantage throughout the rev range regardless of temperature conditions is another and that's before we start talking about all the other aspects of the two cars.

Besides that everyone is forgetting that you're comparing one engine with **** all km's on it, (i.e. still not run-in), with another that's fully run in, IIRC 1,800 km's v about 8,000 km's, there's going to be quite a difference just because of that factor alone.

And onesoftute, you don't have to drive at ten tenths to enjoy a better handling car. (I would do another face palm but you might get offended)

Track times will give a better indication of which is the overall better handling and performing car than a peak dyno power number...surely this is obvious to even the most blue tinted glass wearing enthusiast with myopic vision.

[BHDOGS]

So the most powerful car ever made is the gtf then is that right?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

So the most powerful car ever made is the gtf then is that right?

Maybe, but it would be embarrassing if Australia's most powerful production car lost a race at Australia's most famous production car racing Circuit...

Wouldn't it?

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Maybe, but it would be embarrassing if Australia's most powerful production car lost a race at Australia's most famous production car racing Circuit...

Wouldn't it?

Then they'll try and tell everyone that Bathurst is a racetrack and not normal roads

[Rob 351]

Well Congrats must go to Ford here for not putting up with Wheels's bull ****! They could have rolled over & let this slide, but Ford showed some balls & said no, this is not right so lets do this properly.
It is a fabulous engine in a great Australian car & this thread is about the Dyno comparison between the GTF & the GTS in which the Ford won hands down. It's not about who is fastest around a race track, simply a dyno shootout!
Congrats Ford Australia.

[rancidpunx]

Half of the argument over the last 24hr seems to be that a lot or people don't seem to realise that the Rspec and GTF get 275 rear tyres. Unfortunately the 275 tyre is not enough to keep up with a GTS once the straight runs out and the road starts to curve into a corner.
The Rspec held its own and went largely under the rader of even Ford fans. Even with journos behind the wheels it pulled quick times that have still yet to be bettered. A friend has a GTF and its no quicker than mine after driving the 2 today. Neither of us behind the wheel could pull away on straights. It may be that the additional power actually hinders the 0-100 and 1/4mile times. I dont doubt that the GTF will produce a higher RWKW, infact it would be poor showing if they didnt show the 4% more from 335 to 351. It may be that the additional 4% actually is actually too much and 335 with the rspec wider wheels and suspension with launch control was the sweet spot for magazine times.

[82XD393.3v]

ok ok ok the title is about a dyno test to see which car has the most power at the treads this is not about which car is fastest around a track, saps the most power from the driveline, costs more or less, what tyres are on it, wheels started this and justice has been served. thanks rodge and co for your input but keep it on topic you have already steered other threads similar to this to the track times, \
on another note the GT f isnt just a dyno queen

[BHDOGS]

They have to steer it to something they can actually win a because they lost this one. Its human nature to focus on whats better for you then what is actually true take it from me im an expert.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Rodge

You haven't driven on Pukekohe racetrack have you Trev...I spent a lot of time on there with the Auckland university motorcycle club when I was younger and its anything but smooth.

Peak horsepower at peak revs in certain conditions when you can coax over-boost out of an engine is one thing, power and torque advantage throughout the rev range regardless of temperature conditions is another and that's before we start talking about all the other aspects of the two cars.

Besides that everyone is forgetting that you're comparing one engine with **** all km's on it, (i.e. still not run-in), with another that's fully run in, IIRC 1,800 km's v about 8,000 km's, there's going to be quite a difference just because of that factor alone.

And onesoftute, you don't have to drive at ten tenths to enjoy a better handling car. (I would do another face palm but you might get offended)

Track times will give a better indication of which is the overall better handling and performing car than a peak dyno power number...surely this is obvious to even the most blue tinted glass wearing enthusiast with myopic vision.

You are carry on with waffle. I am not talking about comparing these cars in this instance as I couldn't care less really. But your saying that racetrack smoothness grip and realistic commitment bares any relationship to real world mountain road handling is what I take issue with.

[BENT_8]

Ford should throw in dyno rollers as a free gift for every GTF owner instead of a drive day.
Remember when they gave all those HO owners free wheels so they could win Bathurst...

[nstg8a]

I've been on puke as a passenger, and while it's certainly not billiard ball smooth, it's 100x better than any of the main roads I ever drove on in the north or South Island.

Just because something makes it a better track car doesn't always translate to a good road car.

[82XD393.3v]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ford should throw in dyno rollers as a free gift for every GTF owner instead of a drive day.
Remember when they gave all those HO owners free wheels so they could win Bathurst...

holden should buy you a box of tissues because they haven't been able to buy there way through this

[BHDOGS]

Free box of tissues with every gts? Lmao

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

holden should buy you a box of tissues because they haven't been able to buy there way through this

Sharp.

You guys are too much.

[82XD393.3v]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Sharp.

You guys are too much.

the tissues are for you not gts owners all trolls get a free box

[falcodore]

I don't know why any HSV owners would need tissues. Fact of the matter is the GTF puts more power to the rear and is still slower than the GTS.

I'd be crying about that.