How generous are Australian working conditions

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by zilo

Why not pay the $75 bucks and register a business name so you too can be a "boss"....errrr...comrade ?

Ive been a self employed contractor nearly all my working life .I now have my first permanent job as an employee after 48 yrs in the workforce ,been there now for 12 months ,had my first paid holiday this year ,not only do they pay you but they pay you more to go on holidays,geees how long has this been going on,the brother and comrade thing was a bit of a joke as this is how the union used to address people in the metal working trades ,but the unions did get all these great conditions we all now enjoy and thats a fact

[Xauterus]

Originally Posted by zilo

Forget the Big Mac index....

Since it's a car forum I'll add my 2c (in AUD of course)

Petrol in the US $3.78 a gallon
Petrol in Aus $6.50 a gallon.

and that's being conservative...

Imagine the cost of petrol living in the US if you were on the minimum wage of $7.70.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

exactly what is "ones means",

if there is more going out, than what is going in, then you are living beyond your means.

sometimes its a juggling act, but lets not overthink everything.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Ive been a self employed contractor nearly all my working life .I now have my first permanent job as an employee after 48 yrs in the workforce ,been there now for 12 months ,had my first paid holiday this year ,not only do they pay you but they pay you more to go on holidays,geees how long has this been going on,the brother and comrade thing was a bit of a joke as this is how the union used to address people in the metal working trades ,but the unions did get all these great conditions we all now enjoy and thats a fact

48 years contracting, 48 years of self employment?

And you still needed a full time job?..

Something wrong there mate.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by zilo

48 years contracting, 48 years of self employment?

And you still needed a full time job?..

Something wrong there mate.

Yeah I pity anyone who is or was close to retirement over the last 5 years.
The GFC went wrong and effectively stopped investment so sales of small business slumped, share values halved, interets rates for savers are near nothing, house sales stopped or values fell. A working career aimed at retiring circa now effectively screwed.

My parents had this exact thing happen, went from around 1.5 million to just shy of 900K in worth at a time when the income stopped.
Im sure you were actually being rude zilo but there is always a lot more than meets the eye

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by zilo

It was the majority of seats, not the majority of Australians.

It was a pretty massive swing to the right, so it was the majority of Australians.

[ford man xf]

It's one of those things that you can never win, you have people complaining about poor wages working unskilled employment and that they can't afford to buy a house that costs $400,000 + then the skilled employment on decent wages complain their wages aren't high enough and then in the same breath these people complain that consumer goods are too expensive in this country, when in fact the wages aren't that bad and is the main reason consumer goods are more expensive, especially when you consider what a lot of the developed world pays employment. Unskilled employment is never going to pay high wages, and why should it, if you put the effort in to learn a trade or head to university, fork out the fees and put the time in then of course you will receive a better wage, unskilled wages are generous, one big factor is that skilled employment is rarer so a demand is created for this certain type of employment, naturally wages are higher.

Sorry to say it but so many of Australian workers are lazy that whinge continuously and have no idea how good they have it. Every place I've been to have offered overtime with very generous rates, the ones that complain they never have enough money NEVER work overtime, overtime is where you make the good money. Like someone has stated, overtime will become a thing of the past because businesses just won't want to pay the exorbitant wages, especially since casual workers can get the same rate.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

It was a pretty massive swing to the right, so it was the majority of Australians.

yeah a massive 1.5 percent swing to the libs. thats all! The libs actually had several percent less primary vote but of course they are a coalition with the Nats who had a swing against them.

JP

[castellan]

If it was not for the left and the unions a lot of people in australia would of been very poor and the nation would have suffered.

But the left and the unions did serve a lot of no hopers and destroyed a lot of prosperity as well of this nation. i could point out some i know that had no hope of running their own business or even no hope of keeping a job down in reality as they were just dead wood that were not worth their keep and not even worth half the money they got and others that were great workers and good people that were destroyed by the foolish system.

I think it comes down to the us versus them mentality and both are idiots that have to evolve beyond that, if we are to exceed in the future.
Looking back this was the main problem of all the problems we faced.
As the nations direction was hampered with no true real leadership to speak of, it was just a bumbering dimwitted joke of a nation's true capacity.

I am reading a book about the VW by Bernhard Rieger now and it is interesting to read.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

if you put the effort in to learn a trade or head to university, fork out the fees and put the time in then of course you will receive a better wage.

So is $17.50/hour a generous wage or is a light vehicle mechanic an unskilled job?

How about $19/hour for an auto electrician?

Just because you've gone through school or done an apprenticeship doesn't mean you'll suddenly be gifted with a well paying job.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just because you've gone through school or done an apprenticeship doesn't mean you'll suddenly be gifted with a well paying job.

Irrespective of the actual skills what value our society places on a particular job will also dictate the possible earnings.
Doctors and lawyers are considered a necessity, when people are sick or in trouble no cost is too much, but teachers and nursing are not as 'important' to society and as such not paid as much.

JP

[castellan]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Yeah I pity anyone who is or was close to retirement over the last 5 years.
The GFC went wrong and effectively stopped investment so sales of small business slumped, share values halved, interets rates for savers are near nothing, house sales stopped or values fell. A working career aimed at retiring circa now effectively screwed.

My parents had this exact thing happen, went from around 1.5 million to just shy of 900K in worth at a time when the income stopped.
Im sure you were actually being rude zilo but there is always a lot more than meets the eye

I seen the GFC coming a mile off and so did others i know.
I warned people it was going to crash and from what we seen, was they all milked it for all it was worth and it's just too bad so sad.
Big deal you reap what you sow, comes to mind.
Narrow minded short sighted people are the problem, they always have been and always will be.
Thing is people do not really truly care they just want, like a dog chasing it's tail. i see it in my job everyday just low life idiots trying to rip me off playing stupid halfwit moronic games.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...-1226819717845
Spoke to one of my suppliers who has set up a second business in LA in the good old US of A over the last 2 years. He said the minimum wage over there is $7.70 per hour . There is no sick leave, holiday pay, leave loading, super. He said the cost of living is so much cheaper thou and it is much much easier to do business with government welcoming new business with open arms and bugger all red tape........He never thought he'd say it, but he doesn't want to come back here..........

WHAT A GREAT POST . I LIKE YOUR FRIEND """( NOT )""". I HOPE HE STAYS THERE . SOMETIMES i feel they should not take gun laws away too ;poor people deserve guns to defend themselves .
http://www.studentsagainsthunger.org...ssness-america

[sico]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just because you've gone through school or done an apprenticeship doesn't mean you'll suddenly be gifted with a well paying job.

Agree with that.
I did a trade and have 20 years experience but do not consider my wage to be good.
5 years ago my hourly rate was +60% above now.

[mechanic]

If you're a Public Servant or work for one of the utilities funded by Govt. then the redundancies are obscenely generous. My brother was paid $150,000 to leave his job.
That to me seems fairly generous.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by castellan

I seen the GFC coming a mile off and so did others i know.
I warned people it was going to crash and from what we seen, was they all milked it for all it was worth and it's just too bad so sad.
Big deal you reap what you sow, comes to mind.
Narrow minded short sighted people are the problem, they always have been and always will be.
Thing is people do not really truly care they just want, like a dog chasing it's tail. i see it in my job everyday just low life idiots trying to rip me off playing stupid halfwit moronic games.

But then there are those who are not trained to see these things coming, who don't have the experience or skills in global economics to see it and even if they did, what could they do, cant change your age and point in life. if it happens when your vulnerable you loose irrespective if you were a blue chip investor or high flyer. Home owner or developer or business owner or employee.

JP

[mik]

We have it too good, we could afford it once upon a time, now we can't.
10 million people paying taxes for 23 million people, our standard of living must drop.

For one thing, our industry is too regulated, we place much more emphasis on safety to the point of ridiculousness compared to other country's.
for example a bloke (trucky) that has been delivering heavy machinery for 20 years goes to one of the very big well known company's to drop a machine off , after making his way to the drop off point, he proceeds to remove chains etc from the machinery, two blokes in suits come running over to him shouting at him "what the hell are you doing" !
he replies "taking the excavator off",
"no no no you don't", "we have stand back and discuss for at least 5 minutes about how to remove the excavator safely" ........then we have to draw up a plan............. this is law.
one hour later, i kid you not before the machine starts to get unloaded.

this is fair dinkum and not the whole story, they made him jump through hoops just to get on site, it is no wonder the country is rooted.
company's paying weeks of holidays extra over and above other perks for years worked, it is nice if your getting it, but it is no wonder we can't compete with over seas .

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Irrespective of the actual skills what value our society places on a particular job will also dictate the possible earnings.
Doctors and lawyers are considered a necessity, when people are sick or in trouble no cost is too much, but teachers and nursing are not as 'important' to society and as such not paid as much.

JP

And that ladies and gentleman is the problem with society and always will be.

[monte.b]

Originally Posted by zilo

48 years contracting, 48 years of self employment?

And you still needed a full time job?..

Something wrong there mate.

Yep i got divorced.you should try it some time and see what you are left with ,im 64 this year and still fit as i just passed the company medical ,so im enjoying my job and might stay for another 2 yrs before i retire to build hot rods in my shed and besides that my new wife makes more than ive ever made ,so life is good my friend

[zilo]

Originally Posted by monte.b

Yep i got divorced.you should try it some time and see what you are left with ,im 64 this year and still fit as i just passed the company medical ,so im enjoying my job and might stay for another 2 yrs before i retire to build hot rods in my shed and besides that my new wife makes more than ive ever made ,so life is good my friend

Your personal circumstances contributed completely to your financial demise by way of divorce and or financial seperation.

It had nothing to do with the thread topic by way of economics or working conditions in Australia?

[cs123]

Originally Posted by zilo

Your personal circumstances contributed completely to your financial demise by way of divorce and or financial seperation.

It had nothing to do with the thread topic by way of economics or working conditions in Australia?

He posted about the conditions he has experienced working for an employer. You were the one who took it off topic to have a dig at him about still needing to work.

Perhaps you should be a little less obsessed with how successful you are in life and the need to remind us. We don't really care.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by zilo

Your personal circumstances contributed completely to your financial demise by way of divorce and or financial seperation.

It had nothing to do with the thread topic by way of economics or working conditions in Australia?

I can read fine thanks

[MercurySilver]

had the same thing in our lat ea 2011g6e
they tried
they got no where

[Dash_XR]

No point comparing to the US dollar, it's not going to be worth much soon anyway.

We really need to start figuring out what we can sell china once the minerals are gone, otherwise we will be broke.

[XP6]

Originally Posted by Ford XF Man

"if you put the effort in to learn a trade or head to university, fork out the fees and put the time in then of course you will receive a better wage"

Thats fine in a city with the mean$ to achieve a qualification!
In real life for most in the county its unacheivable unless you are fortunate enough to have well to do parents...

Do you expect a 16yr kid to shift from their hometown to a city to achieve this, in the 80's I did and didnt acheive nothing got used by "big named" buissnesses got paid SFA not even enough to eat... SS and the CES labeled me "long term unemployed" try and get a job with that next to your name. After a doing course after course and not gaining employment its very disenhearting and downgrading even though I had high grades at school and liked to learn I could not get a real job.
I was fortunate enough when they started to allow "mature aged students" to return to school so I did year12(left school at the end of yr10)but AUSTUDY wanted me to "bludge" off my parents at the age of 22 because they earnt too much... on a pension go figure.
I was expected to survive on $38 a fortnight as a full time student, real encouragement. Managed to stay for 2 terms before finance stopped me(i had to sell everything I owned to do this).
Later in the same year big companys under SAgov ledgistation were forced to take on a percentage long term unemployed... and Im still there 20yrs later and still have no qualifications other than tickets that allow for my line of work.
But in saying that this company cant just use someone off the street to do my line of work because it takes at least 3yrs to learn the job... there aint no training you can do outside for refining metal other than working the actual job... Final say from me is 99% of the uni degree metalurgists we get have no idea and still need mummy to tie their shoe laces!!!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

So is $17.50/hour a generous wage or is a light vehicle mechanic an unskilled job?

How about $19/hour for an auto electrician?

Just because you've gone through school or done an apprenticeship doesn't mean you'll suddenly be gifted with a well paying job.

just so much disparity in wages from place to place

Auto sparkies at my last job were on $37hr

Fitters were the same, myself just finished an Xmas shutty on $28hr.. cos bored / need beer money

Looking at fitter roles at the mo around the $34 mark..

[Franco Cozzo]

Its a bit different over here in the non mining states, all the normal shops pay award wages, same with dealerships etc, which is the $19/hour for auto electricians and $17.50 for LV mechanics.

Then the customer sees a $100/h+ labour cost and complains about mechanics and other auto tradies getting "paid heaps" when really the guy doing the work gets peanuts, its just that the equipment to run an auto shop is very expensive.

The only auto tradies getting good $$$ are in the mines or have lots of earth moving equipment experience including A/C, and its one of those things where you needed to do your apprenticeship on those things because your average auto elec has no hope of getting in there to actually get the experience.

Some of our TA's at work on minimum wage, one of them has papers and is a very good tradesman but because he is employed as a TA he gets no cash even though he is doing fabrication and designing the furniture going into the vehicles, he's the rich TA on $20/hour.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its a bit different over here in the non mining states, all the normal shops pay award wages, same with dealerships etc, which is the $19/hour for auto electricians and $17.50 for LV mechanics.

Then the customer sees a $100/h+ labour cost and complains about mechanics and other auto tradies getting "paid heaps" when really the guy doing the work gets peanuts, its just that the equipment to run an auto shop is very expensive.

The only auto tradies getting good $$$ are in the mines or have lots of earth moving equipment experience including A/C, and its one of those things where you needed to do your apprenticeship on those things because your average auto elec has no hope of getting in there to actually get the experience.

Some of our TA's at work on minimum wage, one of them has papers and is a very good tradesman but because he is employed as a TA he gets no cash even though he is doing fabrication and designing the furniture going into the vehicles, he's the rich TA on $20/hour.

We aren't a mining state.. just a blip WA is and even they're rooted.

I'm just talking local work, have a mate on mid to low $20s working in radelaide as a tradey

He's comfy and does fa for his dollars, power to him

I don't get out of bed for that

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

WHAT A GREAT POST . I LIKE YOUR FRIEND """( NOT )""". I HOPE HE STAYS THERE . SOMETIMES i feel they should not take gun laws away too ;poor people deserve guns to defend themselves .
http://www.studentsagainsthunger.org...ssness-america

Ah supplier, not friend......SUPPLIER, untwist your knickers.......

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The "generous" conditions that are in place at SPC Ardmona cost them less than 1% of thier operating costs last year. Most of the "allowances" the media mentioned hadn't even been paid to anyone in the previous year.

Going through our enterprise bargaining at the moment at work...and the business seems hell bent on reducing the number of days off we have in an eight week cycle, and cutting out a week of holidays per year, as well as removing other conditions. No fricking idea how this is going to get past the "no disadvantage" clauses in the law where you supposedly can't be worse off than your last agreement, but they're trying it on...

If you can keep a workforce just on the edge of supporting themselves, and worried constantly about being replaced, it makes for a much more pliable and obedient worker...

Going though ours as well at the moment. Well it should of been signed off November last year, but we can't come to an agreement because the company didn't want to negotiate at all until going to Fair Work Australia 3 times. We have 2 major competitors, we are asking to be slightly better off than 1 competitor, (very slightly believe me) and worse off than our other competitor, but the company wont be happy unless we are worse off than both of them, even though every second month is a 'record month' where the company is moving more volume than ever before.

I'm pretty sure QLD employees are still better off than us poor NSW brothers. Even though they keep telling us that NSW is making the most profit in the entire company. Figure that one out.