Fords answer to VF Commodore?

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

GTHO. The only 4 letters which would completely knock the living **** out of anything launched by the general that day.

Love to see it!!!

But I think the GM / Ford battle of the 8's is old news and much of the Australian new car buying public won't really care who's V8 is faster...sadly!!!

Ford's battle is not how to respond to the VF...It's how to respond to EVERYTHING else on the market...how is the Falcon better than a Mazda 3...how is it more attractive than a Subaru or Toyota Camry??? They are the questions Ford need to ask themselves and when they have some solid good answers, then market those reasons and get the word out there...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by flappist

Maybe that is not such a good idea.

The price of LPG particularly in the southern cities would offset any financial gains for the EB4 over ecoLPi and Ford went to great lengths to move its marketing position away from "FPV GT is just a taxi with a V8" perception.

I have always thought that a "Ford Taxi" in a similar vein to the pommy taxi and asian taxi (Toyota Crown) might be a good idea.

e.g. Based on the BF they make a sedan and wagon available only in LPG and EB4 configured exactly as a taxi with high durability but low speed components. It could also be fitted with a driver cage standard and enhanced safety components to protect passengers.

This model would not change each year except for compliance updates and has no options to help keep spares prices down. i.e. a 2017 Ford Taxi looks exactly the same as a 2012 Ford Taxi and uses the same spare parts.

They are hard limited to 120km/h so do not require any high speed capable components or testing and cannot be registered for any use other than a taxi. These also do not attract all the usual taxes making them a cheaper capex and have accellerated depreciation.

As it would not look like a current Falcon it would have no negative effect on marketing and as a 100% Australian product it would employ lots of people building and maintaining them and possibly create a niche market overseas like the Toyota Crown.

If you have a Maccas on the left and a KFC on the right it is easier to make and sell pizzas or noodles than chicken or burgers.......

They should have kept BFIII wagon... 1) for Telstra and 2) for Taxi's.... All they had to do was fit the 6 speed.

[Wretched]

Regarding the Falcon, Ford don't need to battle only VF, they have to battle other makes, Hyundai, Mazda, Toyota, etc.
Then they also have to battle their own internal product range that comes from overseas.
The Focus and soon to be released Mondeo are better equipped and better built.

Enthusiasts wanting more grunt will always flock to the Falcon based performance range (GT, XR6T, F6, etc) but are these enough to keep the Falcon afloat?
What is it that the Falcon (and ute) has that other vehicles in the Ford range can't do that customers would use regularly?
What is it that other makes are doing that makes their cars more desirable over the Falcon?
Putting aside bias for the Falcon, you have to ask why should the regular consumer buy a Falcon over any other product, both internal to Ford and other makes?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

They should have kept BFIII wagon... 1) for Telstra and 2) for Taxi's.... All they had to do was fit the 6 speed.

And the new engines.
And the new lpg fuel tank.
And about a squillion other things that we know nothing about.
All of which had to be engineered and complied.

Lot of money to spend on a vehicle that was losing market relevance.

My idea was to make a whole new model based on the BF but specifically designed to be a taxi.

To make it work it would need some sort of Governemnt help in the form of subsidies and legislation e.g.

As it can only be used a TAXI it is GST exempt.
As the model does not change there will no longer be a "X year limit" on usability as long as the TAXI passes a yearly and "1000 hour" check it can go forever. This is how aircarft maintenance is done.

Anyway this thread is about Fords answer to VF so unless there will be a VF taxi pack it is not that relavent.

[Rodge]

To some extent I don't think it matters what Ford do, people who are even slightly interested will have a look at the VF. Early VF adopters will have to pay full retail price or very close too it so Ford's best weapon is the price advantage it can offer through run-out pricing.

[BadMax]

I tend to agree that people will instinctively look at the VF if they are in the market. Those opsting to purchase the first run, will ultimately pay a premium. Thos who hold out for a new Falcon and find it's actualy nothing new, will be in a better position to buy the VF as GMH will drop thier pants on pricing.

In saying that, pricing isn't a big issue. Have a look around at the pricing of small top end cars, they are not that cheap anymore. I think physical size and economy is playing a big part. And the fact, mum 'n' dads aren't the majority of the market.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

The problem for Holden is those fans are the only private buyers they have left. The kinds of people that buy Commodores these days are the small number of people who have always bought them, everyone has ditched the Commodore, it only sells a third of what it did ten years ago. The SA government keeps the fleet sales up slightly, but I don't think it will sell anywhere near the VE did back in 2006.

Are sales low because falcon and commodore are near the end of long model runs,

Or

Are the model runs long because of low sales?

Using my crystal ball I'm picking 2014 to see commo regain top spot, at least for a month, and falcon to get into the top 5, in the second month of fu release.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

xd 79 vb 78
xf 84 vl 86
ea 88 vn 88
ef 94 vr 93
au 98 vt 97
ba 02 vy 02
fg 08 ve 06

Thanks.
I thought as much, Ford always the followers. Second to Holden if you will.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Thanks.
I thought as much, Ford always the followers. Second to Holden if you will.

Production releases dates are hardly a sign of following or a negative, ..eg Holden release a 4 speed auto, Ford release one later which is better in every way, Holden release an IRS, Ford release one which is superior, Holden adds an airbag as option, Ford release drivers as standard, Holden release lpg, Ford release one better in everyway...Ford rushed the EA to market and learned never to do so again...anyway I can see an engineering pattern here which seems to favour Ford.

[Cambo351]

Don't want to be a naysayer, but I honestly think the future of the Falcon is in the Territory and to a lesser extent, the Ute.

SUV's are the vehicle of choice these days, look at just about every manufacturer, Euro & Asian...SUV after SUV after SUV....

The Terry could really be so much more; think along the lines of Range Rover Sport, Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, BMW X5, Audi Q5/7, etc...

Stick the 5.0L S/C under the bonnet, fill it full of leather & carbon fibre, all the flash toys, and price it right (cause the Euros are horrifically overpriced) and there is the future...

I'd be trying to sell more Terry's, which in itself would help keep the Falcon alive. Can't find the thread now but it was mentioned that the Falcon & the Territory were selling in more/less the same quantities? If big sedan sales are going down & SUV sales are going up, then go with it.

If good sales in the Terry would subsidise the Falcon, then it's still win-win...

You may now commence your flaming

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by flappist

My idea was to make a whole new model based on the BF but specifically designed to be a taxi. As the model does not change there will no longer be a "X year limit" on usability as long as the TAXI passes a yearly and "1000 hour" check it can go forever.

so, sort of like the old london taxi?

[csv8]

Cambo 351 How about Ford transplant the Explorer interior into the Tezza ?? Heaps of buttons to speak too and play with. Then we might get an LTD Tezza !!! looked out the window, no pigs flying!!!!!

[chookaradley]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Thanks.
I thought as much, Ford always the followers. Second to Holden if you will.

Ford were first with ABS (EB Falcon)
Rear Disc Brakes (XB GT)
Fail Safe Cooling (AU Falc)
Multi Link IRS (AU Falc)
Projector Headlamps (NA Fairlane)
Plastic Fuel Tank (XD Falc)

I could go on. You can break these things down however you want. However I do agree with you if you look at the whole picture Ford have been largely re-active

[Cambo351]

Hmmm....i hadn't considered the Explorer, but after a quick look online it certainly seems to be the direction that the Territory should be heading.

The 2012 models appear to have all the goods, but missing a V8.

It looks to me that the Taurus + Explorer is a similar pairing to the Falcon + Territory.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by chookaradley

Ford were first with ABS (EB Falcon)
Rear Disc Brakes (XB GT)
Fail Safe Cooling (AU Falc)
Multi Link IRS (AU Falc)
Projector Headlamps (NA Fairlane)
Plastic Fuel Tank (XD Falc)

I could go on. You can break these things down however you want. However I do agree with you if you look at the whole picture Ford have been largely re-active

Regarding the AU rear suspension, it was actually double wishbone (which Holden are still yet to equal). I think I get what you mean though; you mean an IRS that isn't a rear tyre chewing 1960s Datsun design. The Watts link was miles ahead.

You can go back even further than that; Holden released the HQ in 1971 equipped with panhard rod rear suspension (problems with lateral location and all), and the XY was rated as a better handler with its rear leafs. Of course, Ford outdoes Holden with the Watts link in 1982.

You can also look at airbags. Holden was the first to market with a driver's airbag. The next year, Ford comes out with its own variant, except it's standard on all EFs and uses three sensors rather than one. The year after that, Holden comes out with a front passenger airbag. Later that year, Ford follow suit with the EF II, but Ford's airbag covers the front middle position as well (even if no seat is fitted).

You can say the same about transmissions (4 speed autos, 6 speed manuals). There's nothing wrong with being a follower if you do it better.

Oh, and don't forget that with the XB, 4 wheel discs were optional across the range (standard on GT and LTD) and front wheel discs were standard across the range. With the XC, 4 wheel discs were standard on Fairmont GXL (XB Fairmont equivalent) and Fairlane (both 500 and Marquis).

[chookaradley]

[QUOTE=4.0i OHC;4549214]Regarding the AU rear suspension, it was actually double wishbone (which Holden are still yet to equal). I think I get what you mean though; you mean an IRS that isn't a rear tyre chewing 1960s Datsun design. The Watts link was miles ahead.

You can go back even further than that; Holden released the HQ in 1971 equipped with panhard rod rear suspension (problems with lateral location and all), and the XY was rated as a better handler with its rear leafs. Of course, Ford outdoes Holden with the Watts link in 1982.

You can also look at airbags. Holden was the first to market with a driver's airbag. The next year, Ford comes out with its own variant, except it's standard on all EFs and uses three sensors rather than one. The year after that, Holden comes out with a front passenger airbag. Later that year, Ford follow suit with the EF II, but Ford's airbag covers the front middle position as well (even if no seat is fitted).

You can say the same about transmissions (4 speed autos, 6 speed manuals). There's nothing wrong with being a follower if you do it better.

Oh, and don't forget that with the XB, 4 wheel discs were optional across the range (standard on GT and LTD) and front wheel discs were standard across the range. With the XC, 4 wheel discs were standard on Fairmont GXL (XB Fairmont equivalent) and Fairlane (both 500 and Marquis).[/Q

Agree totally, particularly with XEs Watts link. History will state Holden were first with significant introduction of SRS despite as you said Ford being first to make it standard. Pretty sure Ford were first with Fuel Injection too (83 XE?), not to mention first with V8 (XR)

[burnz]

you blokes are way out.

[Buntz]

Ford don't need to answer the VF. The kind of people that buy a VF wouldn't be interested in the Falcon anyway. So Ford will keep running it's own race, and making the best large car in Australia, which unfortunately, only the 'thinking' Australian will purchase.

And there aren't too many today.

[SpoolMan]

On the marketing question I have seen it stepped up of late, full back page and 1/2 page on the front of the Herald Sun is real in your face marketing in Australia's top selling daily paper and its been frequent the push has been Ecoboost across all models.

I am not fussed what the VF has to offer as a pink elephant would have to full out of the sky before I purchased anything that didn't have a blue oval badge on the front.

I would rather talk about how good the Falcon is going to be, I hear the 2014 Falcon looks fantastic and rumor is it will have full voice control ICC.

[danthefordman]

This may be a little out there but here goes.....What about making falcon smaller & lighter but retaining rear wheel drive or opt for all wheel drive. Could it be based on the mondeo platform with our own styling? (those in the know may provide advice here). Or better still, make the falcon and mustang the same platform this would retain rear wheel drive, enable the spreading of R&D costs amongst bigger markets thus making it cheaper and contributing to long term viability of falcon. The eco 4 would have more punch in a lighter chassis, Turbo 5? the much predicted intro of a V6 and the existing V8 options could be made smaller more economical without harming performance. What about a turbo diesel they are very impressive particularly with regards to economy. Our work isuzus run about 7l/100km and they are near on 2000kg vehicles, Would expect even better in a lighter sedan. Smaller size may appeal to the city buyers who are into suburus, mazdas etc. This is only anecdotal based on my own observations but the large cars on our roads seem to be SUV's and mazda 6 and subarus seems to be the next most popular "size". people dont seem to tow with a falcon or commo any more. They seem to opt for Isuzu or ranger or hilux etc.

I guess the question ford is trying to answer is why would someone (read not a parochial ford or holden fan) want to buy a large sedan for these days? Given that the reasons we used to are no longer relevant, ie big car for towing, big car for travelling large distance, large car is safer etc etc and all the other clichéd reasons we used to buy falcon or commodore.

I guess my ideas are beyond next model updates but perhaps things to consider for the future

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

On the marketing question I have seen it stepped up of late, full back page and 1/2 page on the front of the Herald Sun is real in your face marketing in Australia's top selling daily paper and its been frequent the push has been Ecoboost across all models.

I am not fussed what the VF has to offer as a pink elephant would have to full out of the sky before I purchased anything that didn't have a blue oval badge on the front.

I would rather talk about how good the Falcon is going to be, I hear the 2014 Falcon looks fantastic and rumor is it will have full voice control ICC.

Are these some hints that were dropped at a recent tour of a certain proving ground?

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Buntz

Are these some hints that were dropped at a recent tour of a certain proving ground?

Defiantly not, whilst we had lunch and I was lucky enough to have an engineer sit next to me they were very guarded on what they could talk about when the subject was upcoming models.
What was coming across is new car customers expect to jump in a car and want to be able to hook up there phone as easy as possible, technology keeps moving and I believe Ford want to move with it and not get left behind.
They were very excited about how the next model is going to look.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

They were very excited about how the next model is going to look.

So... yes. They made no secret that they are excited.

[nstg8a]

This is a good start....

[Auslandau]

I know its a Falcon thread ..... but on theme from above! Would be nice to see this rate. Must be a cost reason ....

[Buntz]

Nice comparison rate ads. Not sure I like the bunnings warehouse colours. Needs more blue, black and white.

[nstg8a]

Interesting that its through Toyota finance too.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Interesting that its through Toyota finance too.

didn't Ford Credit pack up shop in australia a few years ago?

[nstg8a]

Ford credit went bankrupt didn't they?

[Auslandau]

My GT is through BMW finance ......