VFACTS November 2012

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by csv8

Wouldn't the R & D be already done with Territory ??? andthe diesel just slot into the Falcon ???? Engine bays the same ?????

The engine bays not the same but at the end of the day all the R & D has been done to work with the rest of the Falcon / Territory infrastructure. It would not take much to make it fit in the Falcon.... But the costs with testing, safety etc would be another factor.

It would have made more sense to run the diesel in both and forget ecolpi in Falcon... Would have been more cost effective but as I have said whats done is done.

[350125GO]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

That's your opinion....

Sales figures in Australia say otherwise...

People are still buying diesel passenger cars here like there's no tomorrow. Mercedes Benz and BMW sell boat loads of diesels... C and E Class diesels for example are more popular then petrol variants.... Ford Focus Titanium Diesels are also a good example... leave Petrols behind for dead... Mondeo sells way more diesels then Ecoboost... Why is that?

Its too late to change Falcon now, Ford invested their $$ otherwise and will have to stick with it to save face. Ecoboost Falcon is one of the best things they have ever done, but people still don't buy it... There's a certain snobbery value with diesel powered cars. Don't ask me why! I bought my first diesel last year and love it.....

Well enjoy for now, in a few years they're going to be dead and buried.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

People will pay a premium for diesel.. Prado, Territory, Focus, Mercedes all prove that.. A diesel 2.7 would give falcon a range of 1200 kms.

No one drives 1200kms before top ups anyway. May as well buy EcoLPi, and save lots and lots of cash.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

That's your opinion....

Sales figures in Australia say otherwise...

People are still buying diesel passenger cars here like there's no tomorrow. Mercedes Benz and BMW sell boat loads of diesels... C and E Class diesels for example are more popular then petrol variants.... Ford Focus Titanium Diesels are also a good example... leave Petrols behind for dead... Mondeo sells way more diesels then Ecoboost... Why is that?

It is an interesting topic, this whole diesel vs. petrol for Falcon. I keep changing my mind about whether it should or shouldn't be done. Some very interesting figures in this topic http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...articleid=1242.

Diesel in passenger cars aren’t setting the world on fire here in Aussie unfortunately, nor have they grown much over the last 5 years.

[XWGT]

If indeed Ford are selling every Territory and Falcon that they can produce at the moment, and making a profit from doing so (unsure about this aspect) then quite frankly, Ford don't need to do a thing until 2014.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

The engine bays not the same but at the end of the day all the R & D has been done to work with the rest of the Falcon / Territory infrastructure. It would not take much to make it fit in the Falcon.... But the costs with testing, safety etc would be another factor.

It would have made more sense to run the diesel in both and forget ecolpi in Falcon... Would have been more cost effective but as I have said whats done is done.

Crash testing and durability/calibration work would cost in the 10's of millions of dollars. I remember hearing that the V6 into Falcon was going to cost around $20 million just for crash testing alone.

But I don't really think diesel in Falcon is that good an idea anyway, in ute yes and in Territory, but not in the sedan. Diesels in passenger vehicles make up something like 5% of sales, whereas it's more than 50% in SUV's.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Crash testing and durability/calibration work would cost in the 10's of millions of dollars. I remember hearing that the V6 into Falcon was going to cost around $20 million just for crash testing alone.
.

Thats what people forget...


the Ecoboost 4 is great, just what the falcon needs, satisfies head office and give the Falcon "green cred"

If a V6 does appear in the falcon as a I6 replacement, then a Diesel version might be a bit more economical, but until then...

[Bossxr8]

Its just a pipe dream anyway this late in the model cycle.

[mik]

regardless of how the engines choices worked out, it would have been interesting to see how a diesel would have went in the falcon with the weight and aero difference between the Falcon and Terri,
i`m wondering if they in the early stages had a test mule Falcon with the oiler in it(what`da ya reckon BossXr8? )?

with the engine options already in the falcon, 315,335, Ecolpi, Ecoboost, unleaded 4.0 it would have been interesting to see the oiler option sales wise too.

[Bossxr8]

I haven't heard of a diesel Falcon mule but thats not to say it hasn't been done.

In regards to the build split its still not that close to 50/50, as although both Falcon and Territory are being sold in near equal numbers you need to add the 500 or so utes built per month to the numbers, which results in a split still in greater numbers for Falcons. 60/40 maybe?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by XWGT

If indeed Ford are selling every Territory and Falcon that they can produce at the moment, and making a profit from doing so (unsure about this aspect) then quite frankly, Ford don't need to do a thing until 2014.

Exactly, production is now set at 3,000 to 3,200 a month now. Figure on 1350 Falcon, 1350 Territory and 500 Utes tops.

Just about every Territory sold is over $40K, Falcon maybe not so good with roughly 50/50 above/below $40K
and Utes mostly between $30k and $40K.

[Brazen]

Falcon ute should be selling at least 1500 a month, it needs diesel as much as Hilux, Ranger or Colorado.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Falcon ute should be selling at least 1500 a month, it needs diesel as much as Hilux, Ranger or Colorado.

Holden's Ute is not much better, I think time and tide is against both as it's just easier to do something with
Colorado and Ranger, seems like a lot of tradies are going for diesels in these and Navaras now..

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden's Ute is not much better, I think time and tide is against both as it's just easire to do something with
Colorado and Ranger, seems like a lot of tradies are going for diesels in these and Navaras now..

Not just tradies are going for diesels, but fleets will buy nothing but diesel light commercials nowadays, 14 years ago fleets were 80% to 90% of Falcon ute sales. Ford have thrown so much of that away.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Not just tradies are going for diesels, but fleets will buy nothing but diesel light commercials nowadays, 14 years ago fleets were 80% of Falcon ute sales. Ford have thrown that away.

Pfft,
So, you think a diesel Ute would hold back the tide of diesels pouring out of Thailand...?
Nothing is the same as it was 14 years ago, the whole market is moving onto other vehicles.

The market clearly has gone for truck based Utes and away from car based utilities.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Pfft,
So, you think a diesel Ute would hold back the tide of diesels pouring out of Thailand...?
Nothing is the same as it was 14 years ago, the whole market is moving onto other vehicles.

The market clearly has gone for truck based Utes and away from car based utilities.

NO it Hasn't, the market has shifted to diesel.

If the market had simply shifted to Thailand pickups then we would see record sales of V6 Hilux, V6 Colorados, V6 Navaras, and V6 Rangers...... Guess what? They have been discontinued due to record low sales. The market has shifted because of diesel, not because of Thailand.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by Buntz

No one drives 1200kms before top ups anyway. May as well buy EcoLPi, and save lots and lots of cash.

Off topic but your joking right ? One of my priorities to drive at least 1000 ks before servos every other day , and if its bad on juice at least have a tank big enough to cover some distance...my last 3 cars had in excess of 130 litre tanks ...gas ain't an option out our way

[4stanger]

Imho, I'd be interested in a XR ecoboost ute.
Cheaper rego here in Qld.
Goes just as good as a NA 6.
Would be a bit easier on fuel.
No good for carry or towing huge loads, thats why i stated 'XR', should handle the odd maximum 600kg payload the rest of the XR's have.
Let the tradies have the diesel ecolpi. bring on a XR ecoboost ute.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

NO it Hasn't, the market has shifted to diesel.

If the market had simply shifted to Thailand pickups then we would see record sales of V6 Hilux, V6 Colorados, V6 Navaras, and V6 Rangers...... Guess what? They have been discontinued due to record low sales. The market has shifted because of diesel, not because of Thailand.

The market has shifted, you can stamp your feet but buyers have spoken and moved.
Yes, those truck based Utes are nearly all diesels and most are ordered with 4WD
and also as extra and double cab....There's quite a few features there that falcon Ute can't cover..

Ford also took a punt on LPG, used to be 50% of ute sales but it looks like fleets have moved away from that too..

[flooded one]

if the commodore and falcon cant get no 1 spot i hope the camry gets it. Australian cars are the best made cars!! I was rather disappointed with the mazda 3 i took for a test drive. i really dont see what so great about them compared to other cars on the market. i dont think its a crud heap by any means but i dont know why there so popular. i can understand why camry is so popular. its because of its reputation. its a rather bland car (being polite) but it has a very good reputation. why doesn't ford do another reliability test like it did with the XP??? have all the 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder and V8 offerings drive around you yangs too show how reliablable the falcon is. i also dont think the six is all that bad on fuel the way some people go one about it. that's why also have the ecoboost 4 cylinder in the test. so the people that no matter what you tell them about 6 cylinder fuel economy will be interested in a large aussie built 4 cylinder sedan

[flooded one]

falcon ute needs too be different again. take the AU ute for example. what was around like it at the time?? the biggest issue i see with the FG ute is its clearance. other then that the FG is a great ute. i can see a diesel ute with a 4 wheel drive option working with people out in the sticks. also offer a bloody V8 with the XL trayback/ is ecoboost avalible with ute?? a few things people would be intrested in. long ago you could get a base model falcon with a V8. now you cant. it would also bring a few V8 commodore ute buyers over too ford. have a V8 XL ute cheaper then a V8 SS ute. a base model vs a higher up model. if falcon ute makes it too the 2014 update is there a way too up its towing capacity?? things people look at when buying cars. thou its 2300kg towing capacity is respectable. the thai utes have now past this. falcon utes are much more comfortable then most thai built utes anyway. ford should advertise it better like the old "wish" ad ford used for its AU ute. advertise it as a true work horse. not a show pony ute like the VE ute is

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by wildrider

if the commodore and falcon cant get no 1 spot i hope the camry gets it. Australian cars are the best made cars!! I was rather disappointed with the mazda 3 i took for a test drive. i really dont see what so great about them compared to other cars on the market. i dont think its a crud heap by any means but i dont know why there so popular. i can understand why camry is so popular. its because of its reputation. its a rather bland car (being polite) but it has a very good reputation. why doesn't ford do another reliability test like it did with the XP??? have all the 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder and V8 offerings drive around you yangs too show how reliablable the falcon is. i also dont think the six is all that bad on fuel the way some people go one about it. that's why also have the ecoboost 4 cylinder in the test. so the people that no matter what you tell them about 6 cylinder fuel economy will be interested in a large aussie built 4 cylinder sedan

Originally Posted by wildrider

falcon ute needs too be different again. take the AU ute for example. what was around like it at the time?? the biggest issue i see with the FG ute is its clearance. other then that the FG is a great ute. i can see a diesel ute with a 4 wheel drive option working with people out in the sticks. also offer a bloody V8 with the XL trayback/ is ecoboost avalible with ute?? a few things people would be intrested in. long ago you could get a base model falcon with a V8. now you cant. it would also bring a few V8 commodore ute buyers over too ford. have a V8 XL ute cheaper then a V8 SS ute. a base model vs a higher up model. if falcon ute makes it too the 2014 update is there a way too up its towing capacity?? things people look at when buying cars. thou its 2300kg towing capacity is respectable. the thai utes have now past this. falcon utes are much more comfortable then most thai built utes anyway. ford should advertise it better like the old "wish" ad ford used for its AU ute. advertise it as a true work horse. not a show pony ute like the VE ute is

It's hard to know all the things we fondly remember with Falcon steadily go away,
all the neat options, the base V8 you could once option, lots of cool stuff...

But here's the deal, not enough people supported those things when Ford last made them
so they stopped because engineering products for the benefit of a few is too expensive,
every thing that you see that's gone is never coming back, there ain't no money to do it.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes, those truck based Utes are nearly all diesels and most are ordered with 4WD
and also as extra and double cab....There's quite a few features there that falcon Ute can't cover...

...and that what people forget.


Easier just to say "Ford should do this" without seeing the whole picture...

[xm289]

Im looking at trading my 05 dual cab tdi courier for a new awd terry. Gee i wish ford did a rtv dual cab 4wd falcon ute. I want to buy an aussie design and built car.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Brazen

NO it Hasn't, the market has shifted to diesel.

If the market had simply shifted to Thailand pickups then we would see record sales of V6 Hilux, V6 Colorados, V6 Navaras, and V6 Rangers...... Guess what? They have been discontinued due to record low sales. The market has shifted because of diesel, not because of Thailand.

V6 petrol light commercials used to be a disaster for economy. Anyone who used to pick over a diesel must've had a company fuel card

[russellw]

The graphical statistics have now been uploaded into the Tech Portal for November.

Cheers
Russ

[Wretched]

Ford 2012 2011
Ford Escape 35 173
Ford Falcon 1,206 1,483
Ford Falcon Ute 444 680
Ford Fiesta 894 965
Ford Focus 1,920 1,222
Ford Kuga 61 0
Ford Mondeo 353 632
Ford Ranger 4X2 623 380
Ford Ranger 4X4 1,564 653
Ford Territory 1,296 1,776
Ford Transit 116 91
Ford Transit Bus 9 4
Ford Transit Heavy 8 44
Ford Total 8,529 8,103

Change 5.30%


Holden 2012 2011
Holden Barina 1,021 1,283
Holden Barina Spark 75 179
Holden Caprice 95 102
Holden Captiva 5 673 476
Holden Captiva 7 983 958
Holden Colorado 4X2 410 69
Holden Colorado 4X4 1,546 881
Holden Combo 34 30
Holden Commodore 2,659 2,808
Holden Cruze 2,115 2,393
Holden Epica 0 20
Holden Monaro 0 0
Holden Statesman 0 1
Holden Utility 4X2 703 561
Holden Volt 40 0
Holden Total 10,354 9,761

Change 6.10%

Hyundai 2012 2011
Hyundai Accent 541 1,048
Hyundai Elantra 655 540
Hyundai Getz 0 0
Hyundai Grandeur 0 0
Hyundai i20 1,814 941
Hyundai i30 1,886 2,167
Hyundai i40 271 86
Hyundai I45 236 586
Hyundai iLOAD 392 464
Hyundai iMAX 120 195
Hyundai ix35 889 1,094
Hyundai Santa Fe 575 393
Hyundai Veloster 377 0
Hyundai Total 7,756 7,514

Change 3.20%

Jeep 2012 2011
Jeep Cherokee 258 209
Jeep Compass 230 0
Jeep Grand Cherokee 880 519
Jeep Patriot 165 44
Jeep Wrangler 180 224
Jeep Total 1,713 996

Change 72%


Mazda 2012 2011
Mazda BT-50 4X2 316 400
Mazda BT-50 4X4 577 562
Mazda CX-5 1,637 0
Mazda CX-7 2 1,070
Mazda CX-9 341 423
Mazda MX5 22 17
Mazda RX8 0 5
Mazda2 1,561 1,449
Mazda3 3,703 3,480
Mazda6 573 625
Mazda Total 8,732 8,031

change 8.70%

Toyota 2012 2011
Toyota 86 187 0
Toyota Aurion 1,011 620
Toyota Camry (4 cyl) 3,145 978
Toyota Coaster 20 28
Toyota Corolla 4,190 3,731
Toyota FJ Cruiser 220 350
Toyota Hiace Bus 208 311
Toyota Hiace Van 503 529
Toyota Hilux 4X2 871 1,127
Toyota Hilux 4X4 2,188 2,205
Toyota Kluger 1,013 1,571
Toyota Landcruiser PU/CC650 586
Toyota Landcruiser Wagon847 852
Toyota Prado 1,236 864
Toyota Prius 222 97
Toyota Prius C 159 0
Toyota RAV4 1,101 1,577
Toyota Rukus 62 119
Toyota Tarago 84 127
Toyota Yaris 1,395 1,764
Toyota Total 19,312 17,436

Change 10.80%

Volkswagen 2012 2011
Volkswagen Amarok 4X2 53 68
Volkswagen Amarok 4X4 602 331
Volkswagen Caddy Van 144 156
Volkswagen Caddy/Camper 28 33
Volkswagen Caravelle 19 1
Volkswagen Crafter 78 27
Volkswagen Eos 37 85
Volkswagen Golf 992 764
Volkswagen Golf CC 53 217
Volkswagen Jetta 120 214
Volkswagen Multivan 77 76
Volkswagen New Beetle 0 3
Volkswagen New Beetle CC0 0
Volkswagen Passat 212 413
Volkswagen Passat Alltrk 95 0
Volkswagen Passat CC 71 67
Volkswagen Polo 827 341
Volkswagen Scirocco 48 0
Volkswagen Tiguan 527 755
Volkswagen Touareg 168 141
Volkswagen Transporter 135 131
Volkswagen Up! 84 0
Volkswagen Total 4,370 3,823

Change 14.30%

Some figures, better late than never.
Unfortunately the formatting feature i used to use has been removed so you get what you get.

[Smoke Pursuit]

What's happened to Mazda cx7?? Has the cx5 killed it?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

What's happened to Mazda cx7?? Has the cx5 killed it?

CX5 replaced the CX7

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Wretched

CX5 replaced the CX7

Oh I didn't realize that cheers!