turbo four Falc will outpace a Holden Commodore 3.0-litre V6

[04redxr8]

I thought the last large four cylinder car was a Magna or Camry.

[Mr Hardware]

come on 04redxr8, everyone knows that if it isn't RWD then it isn't a large car.
LOL.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

come on 04redxr8, everyone knows that if it isn't RWD then it isn't a large car.
LOL.

And if it's made by a Japanese company and not an American one, it's not an Australian large car

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Being quicker than a Commode V6 isn't totally news worthy, lol.

3L I would agree.

anyway.

I guess we should throw a couple of figures together.

Holden 3L
Power 190kw, Torque 290Nm

Camry
Power 117kw, Torque 218Nm

Eco Boost (going of explorer)

Power 176kW, Torque 337Nm

[smoo]

Originally Posted by happy1

I believe it was Mitsubishi starting the first cars with the direct petrol injection nearly 10 years ago. As usual they had some technical issues but with great fuel economy. The big advantage is that mixing ratio between air - petrol no longer needs to be fixed, and it can be leaned out a lot more, without getting pinging.

And a huge failure it was, hence why any GDI Mitsi on our used car market are worth bugger all as no one wants the troublesome POS. Mercedes beat them to it in the 1950s with the gullwing.

Ecoboost sounds good but I'd be a bit cautious of future reliability, turbo isn't going to get much rest hauling around at least 1900kgs, for the long distance driver you can't go past the economy and reliability of the 4.0 imo, happy to be proven wrong.

[mik]

Originally Posted by smoo

And a huge failure it was, hence why any GDI Mitsi on our used car market are worth bugger all as no one wants the troublesome POS. Mercedes beat them to it in the 1950s with the gullwing.

Ecoboost sounds good but I'd be a bit cautious of future reliability, turbo isn't going to get much rest hauling around at least 1900kgs, for the long distance driver you can't go past the economy and reliability of the 4.0 imo, happy to be proven wrong.

time will tell , but there is plenty of commercials around with 4 cylanders lugging more than 1900 kg fairly efficiently.

[TUF_302]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Being quicker than a Commode V6 isn't totally news worthy, lol.

That's true lol, I'll chip and put a 3"exhaust on my 2.4 ton 4wd and probably beat a 3ltr commy lol!!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by vztrt

3L I would agree.

anyway.

I guess we should throw a couple of figures together.

Holden 3L
Power 190kw, Torque 290Nm

Camry
Power 117kw, Torque 218Nm

Eco Boost (going of explorer)

Power 176kW, Torque 337Nm

They are fantastic figures for the EcoBoost. It will be like having diesel economy but with petrol fun.

[JG34JA]

This has the potential for greatness. 80-100kg lighter puts the 4T Falcon in the midsize weight class (think: new Accord Euro, which gained 200kg); motors being sourced from US, so cheaper as AUD rises in response to "Quantitative Easing" (I wonder if FOA could achieve a Camry starting price??). For fleets, discounted further. Ticks the green boxes, emits less C02. It's effectively like the Focus program IS being built in Australia, in the Falcon sedan body.

[saber]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

This has the potential for greatness. 80-100kg lighter puts the 4T Falcon in the midsize weight class (think: new Accord Euro, which gained 200kg); motors being sourced from US, so cheaper as AUD rises in response to "Quantitative Easing" (I wonder if FOA could achieve a Camry starting price??). For fleets, discounted further. Ticks the green boxes, emits less C02. It's effectively like the Focus program IS being built in Australia, in the Falcon sedan body.

+100 to all of the above.

I would love to see an Egas version (using a LILPG system). But it appears that they can't do that because of direct injection technology the engine utilises. Hopefully something can be done, as if you could get an ecoboost Falcon with LILPG, it would be truly a great car.

[vztrt]

Seriously with LILPG and the price of LPG the savings would be very miniaml. So I doubt there would be a business case for it. There wuold be more of a case for diesel.

[Franco Cozzo]

Interesting stuff, i wonder if it can achieve sub 7L/100km on highway or match it, Dad would be interested in that big time.

[kinksta]

It will be weird sitting at the lights and a riced up Falcon pulls up next to me with a 5inch cannon hanging off the back.

The sound when it takes off will be unusual, but I don't care because I think this is going to be a great car!

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

its a valid comparison... its the only other time ford or holden have tried a 4 cylinder in their big family cars.

while its not a particularly pleasant way to be compared ford are basically doing the same thing, just with 30 odd years better technology.

actually i wasnt quite right... i forgot about the 4 cylinder vn..., plus the vl 2 litre, but that was still a 6.

[NickosBF2XRT]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

actually i wasnt quite right... i forgot about the 4 cylinder vn..., plus the vl 2 litre, but that was still a 6.

WTF?? The VN came in a 4cyl? And the VL 2lt?? Ha its the first I have heard of these 2.

[Road_Warrior]

The 4cyl VN wasn't an Australian market car.

[JC807]

the torque figures quoted are relying on boost. this big heavy car will need boost to keep up with traffic. i think the relaxing driving experience of the lazy big 6 or 8 will be very different to the ecoBoost.
also, i wouldn't believe the quoted fuel consumption figures, they are never accurate - and the difference between the tested figures and real world figures will be greater with the big car/small engine + turbo (just like the cx7)

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by JC807

the torque figures quoted are relying on boost. this big heavy car will need boost to keep up with traffic. i think the relaxing driving experience of the lazy big 6 or 8 will be very different to the ecoBoost.
also, i wouldn't believe the quoted fuel consumption figures, they are never accurate - and the difference between the tested figures and real world figures will be greater with the big car/small engine + turbo (just like the cx7)

Oh that's a new argument. Ford never thought of that! Sorry for the sarcasm. But would you consider the F-150 to be a big car? It now has an EcoBoost, which gets better mileage than the larger naturally aspirated engines. About 2mpg better than the 5.0, and about 5mpg better than the 6.2L. With more low end torque than both of them! If it works for a truck, why can't it work for a car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YY5Vp3OQ (torque)

[blueoval]

Good diff gearing combined with the 6spd ZF gearbox and boost should help this thing get off the lights quite spritely. I don't think it will be a slouch but I dont think the target maket is for a 1/4 burner either as already stated. Obviously it has a lot to do with efficiency. If balanced right it will be a great option for those who want a bit bigger car than a Mondeo/Focus and still want to maintain some reasonable running costs.

[XR Martin]

Just a comparison.

Mercedes E250CGI 1.8L Turbo, 150kw/310nm. 0-100 7.8secs 1735kg. Combined consumption 5.9l/100km

[MexicanBatman]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Oh that's a new argument. Ford never thought of that! Sorry for the sarcasm. But would you consider the F-150 to be a big car? It now has an EcoBoost, which gets better mileage than the larger naturally aspirated engines. About 2mpg better than the 5.0, and about 5mpg better than the 6.2L. With more low end torque than both of them! If it works for a truck, why can't it work for a car?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd6YY5Vp3OQ (torque)

Probably cos your referring to a V6, this here is a 4cyl lugging a 2 ton car tuned for economy, so off boost it will be a slug, it may boost quickly enough, but it wont be the lazy 6 ford are famous for... And it's also a bit of a waste considering the car is engineered for an inline 6 to throw in a inline 4 with all that space to spare... Thered probably be enough room for a hybrid system under there too

Me I couldn't care less, I'm not buying one, and dont care about the fuel efficiency that I can never achieve, because I don't drive like a blind person with really short legs

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

Probably cos your referring to a V6, this here is a 4cyl lugging a 2 ton car tuned for economy, so off boost it will be a sluG, it may boost quickly enough, but it wont be the lazy 6 ford are famous for... And it's also a bit of a waste considering the car is engineered for an inline 6 to throw in a inline 4 with all that space to spare... Thered probably be enough room for a hybrid system under there too

Me I couldn't care less, I'm not buying one, and dont care about the fuel efficiency that I can never achieve, because I don't drive like a blind person with really short legs

Variable geometry turbo's won't be laggy like turbo's of old. This engine will change peoples perceptions of what turbo engines and Ford can do. They will still have to beat people to near death to get them to drive it and find that out though.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

And it's also a bit of a waste considering the car is engineered for an inline 6 to throw in a inline 4 with all that space to spare...

is it really designed for an inline 6 though...

theres plenty of posts commenting on the recessed firewall... and whether or not fg was supposed to get the v6..

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The 4cyl VN wasn't an Australian market car.

ah true, the rb20 vl is probably the same.

[mik]

yes it should be a winner imo, the turbo should give it good torque at low engine speed compareable to the commodore 6, the 6 speed with a ratio for every occasion, plus it should be a little lighter than than the big 6.

[Polyal]

Man there are so many 1980's cliché's here, turbo's, ecu's and 4 pots have come a long way. Its great that the consumer is getting a choice!

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

I thought the last large four cylinder car was a Magna or Camry.

That reminds me, does anybody remember the 4 cylinder 1.9L Opel engines in the LH/LX Torana's and early VB/VC Commodores ? or was that just in NZ? Stick the aircon on and the bloody things would stall .

[MexicanBatman]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Variable geometry turbo's won't be laggy like turbo's of old. This engine will change peoples perceptions of what turbo engines and Ford can do. They will still have to beat people to near death to get them to drive it and find that out though.

Yeah but the ecoboost has just a regular old turbo, my car can make peak boost before you read what I'm writing, but it's not comparable to n/a grunt

Off boost in a high gear at low load, it's just a 4 banger until the turbo winds up and 337nm of torque is summoned to haul 1800kg

On paper it will work just fine, but drive it like a falcon and don't expect fantastic economy

Just like the above mentioned Mercedes gdi read the reviews, about where it can't get below 10l/100km real world, who cares what's claimed, that's tested in a lab by a guy wearing a white coat on a dynamometer, not by me driving to the shops and back.

I also have nothing against 4 bangers and turbos, I recently had a 3 banger turbo, but from all the cars I've driven small engines in large body's and high weight just doesn't work like they'd have you think

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

Yeah but the ecoboost has just a regular old turbo, my car can make peak boost before you read what I'm writing, but it's not comparable to n/a grunt

Off boost in a high gear at low load, it's just a 4 banger until the turbo winds up and 337nm of torque is summoned to haul 1800kg

On paper it will work just fine, but drive it like a falcon and don't expect fantastic economy

Just like the above mentioned Mercedes gdi read the reviews, about where it can't get below 10l/100km real world, who cares what's claimed, that's tested in a lab by a guy wearing a white coat on a dynamometer, not by me driving to the shops and back.

I also have nothing against 4 bangers and turbos, I recently had a 3 banger turbo, but from all the cars I've driven small engines in large body's and high weight just doesn't work like they'd have you think

This turbo kicks in at 1,500 rpm. How offen are you below 1,500 rpm???? Like.. never!!

[Polyal]

Simple, dont buy it, dont even like it; but others will.

Or its a flop and Ford wasted their time, but for once atleast they are the ones doing it first out of the local gang.