Vfacts Decenmber 2010

[Bossxr8]

A smaller I6 was tried, and failed. Fuel economy only improved by something like 0.2 litres per 100, which is bugger all. It was a little smaller in capacity but essentially the same engine, same weight etc, just making it a bit smaller does not change internal friction etc.

The engineers proved it was a waste of time and money. Switching to an electric power steering pump will save more than that.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Davez621

Mondeo is not comparable to Camry as Camry is sedan only, and Mondeo is hatch/wagon only. Not many people want a mid-size hatch or wagon - it only appeals to a small proportion of buyers. The 2.3L petrol engine is also underpowered and I'm not sure the build quality / reliability is up to Japanese standards.

Hahaha Toyota Camry = Puss bucket compared to Mondeo.. Mondeo smashes it in nearly every dimension, Ford has a supply issue with Mondeo, if they hand more on the ground they could possibly sell lots more!

Neways cheerio

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Just think of the enormous profit they will make when they get down to selling one Falcon a month!

That argument is getting tired. Ok so they have cost cut the whole Falcon supply chain and squeezed what money they can from each car. Whats next?

Thats right. They have to sell more cars. Like Holden does.

Great Point Daniel. People always come back to the profit, when trying to move away from the poor sales. And the important Fact is that whilst Ford Oz reported a small (I think it was about $15 million) profit last year, there was never any explanantion if it was from the local manufacturing or importing side. Regardless, $15 million on the hundreds of million they have invested in australia could still be a very very poor return on investment. No one puts their money in a bank account earning 2% when you can put it in an account earning 6%.

Simple fact is Holden might be making big losses to Ford oz's small profits, but its just a comparison. Its like thinking your wealthy because your neighbour is poorer than you, even tho you have no money.

Whilst no one like to hear it, without some monumental shift in thinking, the Falcon is dying a slightly faster than slow death. And with it, the whole broadmeadows production.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

+1.

It would have been a lot quicker and cheaper to introduce a 3.2 I6 than the 2.0 GTDI engine.

Really? So having to re-engineer an engine to meet emmission standards, while having decent torque and power. Then getting the transmission on it and working out the gearing. Testing the engine for durability then the km testing with the Falcon. Also an engine that is unique so will be more expensive to build is cheaper then having an engine that has had the R&D done to it, probably ready for the next emmission standard, and seeing as its an engine that will be pushed everywhere will not isolate it in the automotive world.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by GTP-03

Ford didnt get a handout like GM did from the Obama administration, if they sell enough cars to make a profit and cover there overheads, who cares what the final number of cars sold is. The falcon was the best selling 6 cylinder sedan last month

Heh, that's because Ford keep their models going forever with only minor changes, use old and outdated platforms (in the US at least) and invest hardly anything in new models or platforms.

They continue to sell a heap of Crown Vics and Econoline vans yet have hardly changed either of those since 1992. Pure cash cows.

Same story with the F-series trucks. The heavy duty model is basically unchanged since 1999 (except the grille keeps getting bigger each year). Again, very profitable vehicle for them.

Most other companies will release a new model every 5 years, with Ford it's more like 10.

Of course they didn't go bankrupt.

[russellw]

The first of the Annual Reviews has also been uploaded now with the Segment Review yet to come.

Cheers
Russ

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Really? So having to re-engineer an engine to meet emmission standards, while having decent torque and power. Then getting the transmission on it and working out the gearing. Testing the engine for durability then the km testing with the Falcon. Also an engine that is unique so will be more expensive to build is cheaper then having an engine that has had the R&D done to it, probably ready for the next emission standard, and seeing as its an engine that will be pushed everywhere will not isolate it in the automotive world.

Most of that gets worked out on computer and emissions simulation programs, that's how Ford
discovered that only a few changes were needed to make the 4.0 I-6 comply to Euro 4 where
as before the general thinking was that it wasn't cost effective.

It's probably also how Ford knew that a smaller capacity did not give sufficient return and
that all energies should be channeled towards the Ecoboost I-4 on offer from Ford Global.

That technology/programming came via the T6 ranger project and is no doubt a valuable tool
for forward planning engines. I wonder if competitor's engines get a run on it too.....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Davez621

Heh, that's because Ford keep their models going forever with only minor changes, use old and outdated platforms (in the US at least) and invest hardly anything in new models or platforms.

They continue to sell a heap of Crown Vics and Econoline vans yet have hardly changed either of those since 1992. Pure cash cows.

But they also sell them for similar price as they did ten years ago.
GM is dead, CV is down to 3300/mth and Town car is 600/mth
some cash cow.....the end is near for STAP.

[Joe5619]

I just love when people say "the profit line is getting tried" or "it is better to put the money in the bank & get 6% instead of making 2% selling cars"... It clearly shows a person as no idea why a business opens the front door & lets customers in!!!


Having just said that, I do agree there comes a point where you close the whole thing & Ford really do need to start selling more local cars.. Surly Ford, Falcon & Territory are at the bottom of the sales curve? Territory will get a nice lift with the new shape & diesel. Falcon should get a nice lift when I4, LiLPG & XR8 are here (sadly they are still along time away).

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Davez621

Most other companies will release a new model every 5 years, with Ford it's more like 10.

What a load of BS!!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Most of that gets worked out on computer and emissions simulation programs, that's how Ford
discovered that only a few changes were needed to make the 4.0 I-6 comply to Euro 4 where
as before the general thinking was that it wasn't cost effective.

It's probably also how Ford knew that a smaller capacity did not give sufficient return and
that all energies should be channeled towards the Ecoboost I-4 on offer from Ford Global.

That technology/programming came via the T6 ranger project and is no doubt a valuable tool
for forward planning engines. I wonder if competitor's engines get a run on it too.....

Ah well there you go.

I still think EcoBoost would be a smarter option due to the fact that it doesn't isolate the Falcon like what the I6 has done.

[jpd80]

Money and profit gets shifted around, let's all be adult enough to accept that Ford GM and Toyota do it.

[ST]

EDIT.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ah well there you go.

I still think EcoBoost would be a smarter option due to the fact that it doesn't isolate the Falcon like what the I6 has done.

Apart from T6 Ranger, there's only one RWD coupe that could possibly use it in sufficient numbers....

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Davez621

Mondeo is not comparable to Camry as Camry is sedan only, and Mondeo is hatch/wagon only. Not many people want a mid-size hatch or wagon - it only appeals to a small proportion of buyers. The 2.3L petrol engine is also underpowered and I'm not sure the build quality / reliability is up to Japanese standards.

Ford use to import the sedon Mondeo & it sold like crap, so it was dropped & they kept the hatch only.. So your point is not valid... If the camry was sold in hatch, they'd be killing it!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Ford use to import the sedon Mondeo & it sold like crap, so it was dropped & they kept the hatch only.. So your point is not valid... If the camry was sold in hatch, they'd be killing it!!

And there a page later is the can of worms......
Mondeo is a great car but can anyone here deny that it has been so poorly marketed?
Ford keeps importing the pizzly 2.3 petrol when the market clearly wants diesels.

Two examples of missed opportunities:
TDCI Mondeo Stationwagon...12 months ago same price as BFIII S/W...Slam dunk....MISSED.
Mondeo Econetic with unbelievable fuel economy offered to Government fleets...Slam dunk....MISSED

It's like watching a drunk put his ignition key in his backside
and wondering why the car won't start....

[GTP-03]

In business it makes more sense to sell less and charge more, rather then make more and charge less, its the GP (gross profit) that businesses want to acheive.

[ute83]

There is an upside to selling many more cars even while making a "loss". Imagine how many more used car sales of your brand in the future bringing people to your brand, and as long as they don't fall apart could be turned into new car sales. Two nil, holden.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And there a page later is the can of worms......
Mondeo is a great car but can anyone here deny that it has been so poorly marketed?
Ford keeps importing the pizzly 2.3 petrol when the market clearly wants diesels.

Two examples of missed opportunities:
TDCI Mondeo Stationwagon...12 months ago same price as BFIII S/W...Slam dunk....MISSED.
Mondeo Econetic with unbelievable fuel economy offered to Government fleets...Slam dunk....MISSED

It's like watching a drunk put his ignition key in his backside
and wondering why the car won't start....

A) we current have a TDCI Modndeo station wagon & it does not sell
B) You dont need a marketing team to sell to Government fleets, you need a sales team!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

A) we current have a TDCI Modndeo station wagon & it does not sell
B) You dont need a marketing team to sell to Government fleets, you need a sales team!!

A) the diesel MC Mondy S/W did not arrive until very late last year and is in short supply
B) sales is but one tool of marketing, an overall plan of who buys what car and for how much.

[whales]

Put the Terry diesel motor in the Falcon and watch the sales go through the roof.
But as usual Holden will do 18 months earlier and will grab all the glory while Falcon will be the bridesmaid again.

[bobthebilda]

Joe5619]I just love when people say "the profit line is getting tried" or "it is better to put the money in the bank & get 6% instead of making 2% selling cars"... It clearly shows a person as no idea why a business opens the front door & lets customers in!!!

And they open the front doors for what Joe?????? Some people (small business owners) do it because they like to do what they do. I doubt the shareholders of Ford love to own bits of share certificates with Ford written on it, any better than they like to own google share certificates. The reason they own them is the return they are getting. They dont give a crap if Ford opens its doors in australia or china, as long as they get a decent return on investment. Simple fact is, If Mullaly ever come out with a comment saying, we love australian car manufacturing, and we want to waste shareholders money by keeping it there, Then he would be charged under whatever Corporations Act they have in the US

In business it makes more sense to sell less and charge more, rather then make more and charge less, its the GP (gross profit) that businesses want to acheive.

__________________

GTP, its the Net Proft that most companies look at (theres a lot of playing around between gross profit and net profit on the ledger), but more importantly its the return on investment that they achieve that is the main criteria. Ford OZ $15 million profit is a step in the right direction, but if they have $500 million of assets in australia, then its a poor return on investment.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Just think of the enormous profit they will make when they get down to selling one Falcon a month!

That argument is getting tired. Ok so they have cost cut the whole Falcon supply chain and squeezed what money they can from each car. Whats next?

Thats right. They have to sell more cars. Like Holden does.

So which position would you rather be in? Sell half as many cars at a profit or twice as many at a loss..??

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So which position would you rather be in? Sell half as many cars at a profit or twice as many at a loss..??

Please stop making sense! You're spoiling the number-monkeys' fun!

But seriously, Ford is doing what it has to do to make money which if I recall, is the main way to stay in business.

I would like to see Ford become REALLY aggressive in how they market their vehicles because being the wolf in sheep's clothing doesn't seem to work too well. Holden like to advertise that their car is groundbreaking (and it is - in relation to the previous model of Commodore) and people swallow it down, with the help of the media.

Ford really need to stand behind their product more effectively. Aggressive advertising that cites direct comparisons between their vehicle and others in their respective market, and cite the lovely European characters in their design.

The after-sales service seems to be a common concern among buyers. Improve it and set a minimal set of standards. Make dealerships more accountable.

I know it's not really equivalent, but at my workplace we are made to offer good service. If there is a problem, the owner of the business will call the disgruntled customer himself and work things out. Although he understands that they may not stay on as a customer, he wants them to see that the company wants to help them the it can.

What I'm saying is regurgitation on this forum and has been many, many times over the past few years but if the problem still exists then you've got to seriously consider it.

As they say, do a good job and 10 people will talk about it. Do a bad job and 100 people will talk about it.

You do have to work harder to form a positive perception of your business and even harder to retain it, but that is why work is hard and not easy.

Now off my soapbox.

[Bossxr8]

Ford was making a little bit of money, but there's no chance they have over the past couple of months or over the next few due to low sales numbers, down days, extended shutdowns etc.

Probably won't until new Territory comes online if it sells well.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Ford use to import the sedon Mondeo & it sold like crap, so it was dropped & they kept the hatch only.. So your point is not valid... If the camry was sold in hatch, they'd be killing it!!

That's right.
Mondeo had the sedan and it sold badly.
The hatch is a good car, well equipped with a massive boot/luggage area.
Ford stuffed around getting the popular diesel model here so lost sales there and the 2.3l is weak, still though much better than the Camry.

[4Vman]

The Mondeos biggest problem is the Mazda 6....

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The Mondeos biggest problem is the Mazda 6....

I guess that's where marketing has gone wrong as well. They should be marketing the Mazda is only Manual and has no Auto option.......Yet!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ivorya

I guess that's where marketing has gone wrong as well. They should be marketing the Mazda is only Manual and has no Auto option.......Yet!

In Diesel yes.... but no amount of marketing will overcome the aesthetic and styling difference between both...

[russellw]

The final set of Annual Statistical Data (the Segment Performance) has now been uploaded.

Cheers
Russ