2008 Paris Motor Show: Falcon put on hold - Page 3

steamin63 · 07-10-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whales

If Falcon goes FWD perhaps Commodore will follow then everybody will have to buy BMW's or Mercs

i doubt holden would follow suit [if they have a say in it]. the dark side tend to have more of a clue as to what the australian motoring public wants and they do have a marketing department [something ford has not had since the 1980's].if the falcon goes v6,FWD, how many punters will turn to the commodore as a replacement? cheers.

Bearman · 07-10-2008, 03:31 PM

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See my sig............

DOC · 07-10-2008, 05:34 PM

old school or holden if they do

? what happens to the v8 suoercars, bathurst etc ?

220XR8 · 07-10-2008, 05:35 PM

Voted yes, The missus has an 05 Magna and for 99.99% of the time it will do what a RWD vehicle will, and use less fuel doing it. Maybe at 10/10th it's not as controllable but at the end of the day who drives there on as daily basis.

Mongoose · 07-10-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

old school or holden if they do

? what happens to the v8 suoercars, bathurst etc ?

Yes! and Lowndes is off the line! OH NO! he's torque steered into the crowd and killed 15 people!

Ghiadude · 07-10-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose

Yes! and Lowndes is off the line! OH NO! he's torque steered into the crowd and killed 15 people!

LOL!!!

**Dave R** · 07-10-2008, 11:59 PM

Remember this leak?

I wouldn't be toooo devastated if they replaced the Falcon with an AWD EcoBoost Taurus and called it a Falcon. It beats FWD.

DOC · 08-10-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose

Yes! and Lowndes is off the line! OH NO! he's torque steered into the crowd and killed 15 people!

Not quite the image I had, ? I know adelaide have spent some big $ and upgrades for the clipsal into the future and where does the series stand with no V8 RWD ?

Recently a heap of cobra's / gt's sold of based on our proud past, and then we are supposed to forget and move onto into the bubble car over night.

change, i suppose that is the one constant.

Bud Bud · 08-10-2008, 08:25 AM

When since did what the factory offers as a daily drive have anything to do with V8 super cars?

Even if the Falcon is released as a FWD or even AWD, project blue print would soon have them set up the same anyway.

Scott · 08-10-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

Even if the Falcon is released as a FWD or even AWD, project blue print would soon have them set up the same anyway.

Exactly.... just give the Fords 6 reverse gears

outback_ute · 08-10-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

The part that gets me is that Ford management are talking like they have a decision to make. That they actually think a FWD Falcon would sell when the mondeo doesn't and the Taurus didn't. What sort of logic or indicators they are looking at to derive at such a conclusion is beyond me.

Two major factors here - having no rwd Falcon as an alternative is a completely different scenario. Also if (and it is a big if) the cars were built here that would also influence a lot of sales.

Gee this is frustrating, I don't see how can it make sense. Just staying within Australia to start with, if they change to a fwd Falcon (assuming it is a good car & cheaper than now) I'd expect sedan sales to decrease possibly 25%. Fleets don't care so there might be some increase there due to cost saving, although things like fwd CV joints not to mention teething issues would have an impact on running costs. Private sales would have to decrease significantly (half?). Assuming the ute was dropped, ute sales would be decimated, as I'm not sure more than 1/3 of buyers would have Ford loyalty to buy a Ranger, they would be on the open market. Territory is a different case as you can successfully set up an SUV off a fwd platform given centre diff tuning.

Going outside Australia, there are 130-160,000 Mustangs sold each year in the US alone. Between that, Falcon and a premium rwd sedan in North America, Middle East and possibly other parts of the world surely we have enough volume to support a rwd platform.

The real spanner in the works is the US CAFE regulations, which increase from requiring 27.5mpg (8.5L/100) for cars and 22.7mpg (10.3L/100) for light trucks, SUVs etc (US gallons of course) currently, to 35mpg (6.7L/100) for all light vehicles in 2020. You can see how every last mpg will count when car economy is required to offset F150s and Explorers...

HSE2 · 08-10-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Two major factors here - having no rwd Falcon as an alternative is a completely different scenario. Also if (and it is a big if) the cars were built here that would also influence a lot of sales.

No I am not convinced it is. Evidence suggests all that will happen is defection from the blue oval brand will quicken especially if Holden (again) retain the platform.

Removing choice on this issue has to be across the board, not a selection of it. If that were to happen then I agree, it’s a new ball game and the consumer is again free to pick the best of a bad situation.

If we are saying that the current choice is preventing FWD from reaching their full potential then we also have to say that leaving the choice to the opposition will result in significant loss of market share in the category in question.

If we are saying that removing choice from only part of the consumer menu will result in more brand loyalty then I wouldn't like to be working for Ford Aust.

outback_ute · 08-10-2008, 05:22 PM

I addressed what I think will happen to sales, fleets could care less if a car is fwd vs rwd so cost will still be more of a factor, if the fwd car has favourable running costs it will still do ok. Obviously private sales is a different matter, I agree with you there - but don't forget the proportion of Falcons sold to fleets.

In the second sentence you quoted I was trying to say that some more people might have bought Taurus or Mondeo if they were locally produced - it has significant implications for parts & servicing cost and availability.

Rev28K · 08-10-2008, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

? what happens to the v8 suoercars, bathurst etc ?

Bugger that! I just hope that the new GTHO arrives before FWD does.

HSE2 · 08-10-2008, 06:04 PM

Which is why I said what I did.

XR Martin · 08-10-2008, 07:10 PM

Anyone think if Ford offered 0% interest Finance on Falcon they could shift them out the door?
Its fairly popular in the US with some less 'popular' models.
You can get a Ford Fusion on 0% interest for 36months.

Hell if you could get this on a Falcon id probably get one....

Actually its a minimum of 0% for 36 months, apparently you can get as much as 60 months interest free.

Serial_Fool · 08-10-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT600

Once again we have to endure another attack on Ford at the expense of the AU Falcon, Steve Butler- where are you?

You AU lovers are a sensitive lot. The ORIGINAL AU Falcon styling was a huge duckup by Ford, simple as that (which was too bad because it was a huge leap ahead of the EL construction wise). If it were released with BA-ish styling I think Ford would be in the position of Holden now and the VT-VZ wouldn't of been as popular.

**Polyal** · 08-10-2008, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Anyone think if Ford offered 0% interest Finance on Falcon they could shift them out the door?
Its fairly popular in the US with some less 'popular' models.
You can get a Ford Fusion on 0% interest for 36months.

Hell if you could get this on a Falcon id probably get one....

Actually its a minimum of 0% for 36 months, apparently you can get as much as 60 months interest free.

Id get a G6ET tomorrow on that deal. But would you be allowed to mod it while on finance?

Not that a G6ET needs much modding.

Bossxr8 · 08-10-2008, 08:31 PM

FWD would just kill the Falcon overnight, it would lose most of its uniqueness.

AWD just loses FWD's advantage over RWD, its heavier, more expensive and results in higher fuel economy, so FWD for base models and AWD for upper level and performance versions basically means stuff all savings in economy or price across the range. Its pointless.

Who cares if RWD uses 0.2 litres per 100 km more in petrol, that is f all.

MethodX · 08-10-2008, 10:27 PM

Rebodied Taurus coming?
At least give us the Four wheel drive model.
If we have to have it.

it has a horrid interior though.

IDT · 08-10-2008, 11:00 PM

The refusal by Ford au to come out and give a straight out no is answer enough for me.

But then again, I'm an enthusiast and the fact that my last three cars have been new falcons means I'm irrelevant.

Conrad · 08-10-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

What large FWD car has sold in this country while there has been a RWD competitor?
Ford aren't going to be able to covert this market. They aren't good enough to get people into Modeos or Focus FWD products let alone anything any bigger.
This is very simple. No large rear wheel drive platform in this country, don’t both competing in the segment.
Stick to the Focus and smaller products and be done with it.
Want proof. Start a poll and see who would by a FWD Falcon!

Aurion.

NGN 351 · 09-10-2008, 12:20 AM

Firstly, get the septic tanks to make the Muzzy FWD and see how that sells over a 3 year period before stuffing with local product.

Then go visit BMW and ask why they persist with rear wheel drive.

I would never buy a front wheel drive Falcon either, I reckon the septic tanks would go mad over our Falcon such as F6, GT ETC.

If your not going to have a RWD Falcon kill it off completely and try and survive on Mondeo (FoMoCo wont be able to, cant market an ice cream on a hot day).

OZQUAD44 · 09-10-2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NGN 351

Firstly, get the septic tanks to make the Muzzy FWD and see how that sells over a 3 year period before stuffing with local product.

Then go visit BMW and ask why they persist with rear wheel drive.

I would never buy a front wheel drive Falcon either, I reckon the septic tanks would go mad over our Falcon such as F6, GT ETC.

If your not going to have a RWD Falcon kill it off completely and try and survive on Mondeo (FoMoCo wont be able to, cant market an ice cream on a hot day).

Spot on

It would be a cold day in hell if I ever put a dollar toward a FWD Falcon. I'd rather drive a Crappadore.

If ever those Finance/Global/Marketing/Dipshits try and ram a FWD falcon down our throats I will NEVER EVER Buy a new FORD Product again. For a Blue Blooded Bloke like myself who has owned 9 Falcons. 1 XY, 2XBs, 2XCs, 1 EB, 1XH, 1BA, 1BF. One Lazer, and one Territory. That is it, Gloves are off.

I'll even go so far as to start Barracking for Holden Race teams!.............. No wait not that far. I'll just do something else on the weekends, Like instal a glass panel into the A piller on my new "cough" VE Crappadore "Gagg".... Tough to swallow But I'll Bloody do it, Mark my words.

FWD Falcon....... Frikkin, Knuckleheads!

dom_105 · 09-10-2008, 01:02 AM

It would go down as one of the worst marketing decisions in Australian history.

HSE2 · 09-10-2008, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conrad

Aurion.

It’s been probably the best but no it hasn't sold in volume that would classify it a success in this segment.

For Toyota, probably because it has added incremental sales in a segment they have failed at but for Ford to look at Aurion numbers and think they could better them just because it was called a Falcon, well that a stretch. If you said Aurion was at 50% of RWD Falcon sales, that is probably where you would expect a FWD Falcon to sit on average. That number wouldn’t work.

Cuey · 09-10-2008, 10:06 AM

Most of you boofheads on here are missing the point all together.

THE FALCON IS NOT SELLING - Ford Australia cannot afford to invest $500 million each 7-8 years, for a car that will only sell 3000 - 3500 a month, and that's an optimistic figure. We've just had a brand new falcon go on sale, the best ever, and I love it, but the fact is that it's not selling enough to make a business case for it.

Unfortunately history does not matter, enthusiasts do not matter, the bottom line is the bottom dollar - Are we making a profit? If the answer is no, then things must change.

As much as i'm a blue blooded ford fan, love my V8's, love the turbo sixes and love the RWD, i'm also a realist.

The reality is that we will not see another home grown Falcon ever again.

Did someone mention Focus????

DOC · 09-10-2008, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuey

Most of you boofheads on here are missing the point all together.

THE FALCON IS NOT SELLING - ????

? and exactly who are the boofheads ? the people that grew up and supported the RWD, and the ford label, or the marketing team, sloppy dealerships/service depts over the years, or just poor decisions made by boofheads in the first place.

Grippy · 09-10-2008, 10:39 AM

Falcons have for years been the best car for towing loads short of larger and more expensive Four wheel drives. As someone who needs my daily to tow a race car around for long distances every second weekend, I would not consider buying a FWD of any sort for this reason alone. Towing a heavy load with the front wheels draggin all the weight is no fun

300C-CRD · 09-10-2008, 10:48 AM

I think Ford has got it wrong, Falcon is not the problem, it is Ford's marketing people, Falcon should have gone global, Falcon is excellent value for money compares to some German RWD cars, and yet those German RWD cars can survive in much smaller sale volume in Australia because they are selling all over the world. If Ford can spend money to convert their USA cars into RHD and sell them here, why can't they spend the money to convert Falcon into LHD and sell it all over there and Europe? Let's face the facts that Falcon handles, rides and looks much better than some of those US Ford cars. With A$ drops below US$0.70, it is also good economy sense to export Aussie cars.

View Poll Results: Would you buy a front wheel drive Falcon.
Yes	32	8.40%
No	349	91.60%
Voters: 381. You may not vote on this poll