bashed to death for watering the front lawn - Page 3

**Full Noise** · 01-11-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExAreSix

WTF? Are you for real?

And to think you and I actually live on the same planet. It's scary...

:

What I find even more concerning is the we have a government that allows clowns like you to handle firearms. So, what ego trip are you on?

:

Mercury 8 · 01-11-2007, 05:28 PM

Legal or illegal a 36 yr old taking to a 66 yr old and kicking him is a very low act in anyones book.Hopefully he gets handed the justice he deserves.Scum! What is our world becoming for christs sake.

Electric XY · 01-11-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury 8

Legal or illegal a 36 yr old taking to a 66 yr old and kicking him is a very low act in anyones book.Hopefully he gets handed the justice he deserves.Scum! What is our world becoming for christs sake.

well said what a gutless coward laying his hands on a 66year old man,i am sure if it was some rough knockabout who can look after himself watering his lawn this idiot would not have said boo. :jab:

gz1 · 01-11-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

Tragic, and a waste of a life.

Like Paxton, I live not very far from there at all.

One aspect now reported that may explain (but certainly NOT excuse the offender) is that he was on hard core pain medication for a back problem that deteriorated in the hours before the incident. So he probably wasn't thinking straight in the first place, then when Mr Proctor (older guy) hosed him, he snapped.

I do not believe that for one second. Having a bad back that at time requires heavy duty medication I can tell you that someone in that state would not win a fight even with a 66 year old. Probably a story leaked to the media to try and reduce his sentence.
Ore more likely he was on "medication" (wink wink i.e. ice, or similar) and flew off the end.
Punching and old man to the ground an then kicking him while he is down for something so trivial is simply inexcusable. It is for cases like this I would support hanging.

normxb · 01-11-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

Has to be more to it....it has been reported in a way that the older bloke simply hosed the guy after he was abused by the young bloke, to which he walked over and belted him.

So far thats the only info, the people there would know the full story, maybe the young guy had mental issues, maybe there was a history of neighbourhood disputes, we don't know yet

Hey rodders ,
That's what I was aiming at in post #44 , the story seems to start 1/2 way through .

Quote:

Originally Posted by normxb

Woh ! , Let's just wait a little longer .

To me , the "Story seems to start a little further in ". Not at the beginning .

It doesn't say who spoke or sprayed first ?

Norm

Pinch · 02-11-2007, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz1

Ore more likely he was on "medication" (wink wink i.e. ice, or similar) and flew off the end.

Might be right there. Some media now reporting he was on methodone.

Just a clarification though. Nothing in my posts above should be read as blaming Mr Proctor or diminishing the culpabiliy of the offender in any way. I sincerely offer my heartfelt condolances to Mr Proctor's family and friends.

My comments about the murder v manslaughter issue were born of a concern that the offender may get off a murder charge on a technicality. If a back up charge of manslaughter is laid justice may still be served and the offender can be penalised to to the full extent of the law if murder is not proven. If the prosecution can prove beyond doubt that there was a time during the cowardly attack that the offender no longer wanted to hurt Mr Procter but in fact kill him, then a finding of guilt for murder might be found.

Worse is that this type of the thing is not unprecedented, especially in Sydney. A few years back a younger bloke punched and killed an older bloke over a minor traffic issue in Glebe. Again in Campbelltown recently an older bloke was at attacked after another minor traffic issue.

The world has honestly become an f'd up place when this type of stuff goes on. I for one feel a bit ashamed to be part of the younger generation right now.

TEaaron · 02-11-2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave289

as they say two wrongs dont make a right.

Yes it does double negitives = a positive.

Duhhhhhhhhhhhh

**ebxr8240** · 02-11-2007, 10:26 PM

The saddest part about this...
It rained the next day and still is!!!!!

red_hotxr6 · 03-11-2007, 09:55 AM

One moments indiscretion has killed 1 man and ruined another, and it appears the guy watering the lawn was in the right. Stop and think of your actions...just a shame...

HOON69 · 03-11-2007, 10:27 AM

guy abuses a old guy for watering his lawn,none of his business but with water being so tight,i can understand mentioning it to the old guy,not that he was breaking the law though.

i could understand a old guy being ignorant and ,thinking his always right and the younger generation are wrong so he takes the hose to the guy and lets him cool off abit for his troubles.

i could understand the young guy getting upset and wanting to vent his anger,i dont understand why he needed to boot kick punch the old guy though.

its like double his size,weight and power and it ended in a death,its sad that it happened,but in life many of us take offense to alot of things that if we thought about in the long run,its not even worth it in the end.

old bloke shouldnt of hosed him
young bloke should of told the council

paule11 · 03-11-2007, 10:31 AM

There are a lot of people with psychological problems these days who are not receiving treatment/support.

**Full Noise** · 03-11-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

I could understand the young guy getting upset and wanting to vent his anger,i dont understand why he needed to boot kick punch the old guy though.

Just wondering, was this part of the story (where he allegedly kicked him) actually witnessed by anyone, or has it been added by the media to make the perpetrator look worse?

Only a question.

troppo · 04-11-2007, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

guy abuses a old guy for watering his lawn,none of his business but with water being so tight, i can understand mentioning it to the old guy ,not that he was breaking the law though.

That's the bit I'm having trouble understanding. Maybe living in Darwin and not having been subject to water restrictions of any type has somehow hampered my ability to comprehend, but I'm not getting why this guy thought it was his responsibility to do or say anything. Taking the law into one's own hands is called vigilantism and is outlawed with good reason...even the apparently mild cases of it can turn nasty. No example necessary.

DeansXR8 · 04-11-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

The old man was watering his lawn on a day it was allowed. Just in case anyone missed it.

thank you, i was wondering when it became ok to kick someone to death for watering their lawn when they were allowed.

it seemed like everyone at the head of this topic was one the 36yr's side.

Steffo · 04-11-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zetec

The old guy started it by hosing the younger guy... that's where it all began. I blame the old fella for causing the fight, however in no country on this earth would the 36 yo's response be acceptable. The old fella should have explained it was allowed but it's entirely possible that he maybe didn't know and was by chance hosing at the right time. Either way, both of them are to blame.

No, the younger idiot started it when he started arguing with the old man about needless, dictatorship-esque restrictions imposed by an inept Government. The old man didn't start anything. If the young moron had just walked past and minded his own business, nothing would have happened, full stop.

And thanks to our inadequate, poorly run legal system, the young guy won't get anything near a fitting punishment. Beating an old man to death, over, literally NOTHING deserves the harshest possible of punishments. Something like the old Soviet Gulag system... forced hard labour for life, no mercy.

RIPGMH · 04-11-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

The problem here is that some people get their ego confused with their abilities. This 66 year old man might have been a tough bloke 25 years ago. Calm words could have resolved this issue.

At the end of the day, some stubborn old man was watering his garden and wanted to be a hero with some knucklehead that has anger management issues and no brains. I bet that if this stupid old man just turned off the tap and went inside for a few minutes, he’d most likely be alive today.

I can't believe some of the shite coming from you people. He was an old man for that alone should afford some respect, secondly his dead. I bet you wouldn't run your mouth off like that in public.

Van D · 04-11-2007, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

I can't believe some of the shite coming from you people. He was an old man for that alone should afford some respect, secondly his dead. I bet you wouldn't run your mouth off like that in public.

Gotta agree here. Unless they're really messed up individuals, I always think the elderly deserve some respect. Sure some are sour, but i'm also sure they have their reasons. They would have done things a lot tougher than most these days, and they don't get shown any respect for it.

From my point of view. Old man was in his right to mow the lawn, younger guy was too egotistical (if he cared so much about saving water i'm sure he'd have known it was a day he was allowed to use the hose), and i'm sure the old man wouldn't have sat there spraying the guy constantly with water.

Over-reaction from a tool IMO. Even if someone sprayed you with WATER and they were in the wrong, there's no reason to go punch them to the ground and kick them whilst their down, especially when they're a senior and you know they'd have no chance fighting back.

la2or · 04-11-2007, 09:16 PM

It's not a big problem watering the lawn. He is an old man paid his taxes all his life.

The reason we have the water problems is because of leftwing people like Peter Beattie who want to appease hippies against the dams.

la2or · 04-11-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinch

With a law degree (but not a criminal lawyer), I can't see how they can make Murder stick. No premeditation - the younger bloke would have to have gone there specifically with the intent to kill or seriously injure - not just walk past and it happen from there. Manslaughter at best.

Isnt there a reckless type murder thing. He bashed him recklessly rather than a full blown pre-meditation.

Like bashing a baby even though you dont mean to kill it it is reckless to bash a little baby because 1 hit could kill it same with old people.

Pinch · 06-11-2007, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la2or

Isnt there a reckless type murder thing. He bashed him recklessly rather than a full blown pre-meditation.

Like bashing a baby even though you dont mean to kill it it is reckless to bash a little baby because 1 hit could kill it same with old people.

As I am not a criminal lawyer I'm a bit out of the loop. The reported facts suggest this is in line with what manslaughter covers - didn't intend to end their life but were recklessly indifferent to the result of their actions and the victim died as as result. The prosecution may however be able to prove that there was a time during the attack that the offender no longer wanted just to hurt the man, but actually made the mental decision to end his life. Probably hard to prove, but kicking him on the ground may be an indicator of that intent. Have to wait and see what the facts draw out.

**ebxr8240** · 06-11-2007, 10:39 AM

Grievous bodily harm is almost as bad as murder in terms of jail sentence..
Which he maybe charged for...

87xfdriver · 06-11-2007, 01:41 PM

Surley nothing wrong with a bit of biffo is there? Our football playing heros surely attest to that. Or are we all just turning into pansies?
This is not my opinioin just the stereotypical crap as a male I've been fed my entire life in Australian society.
As far as I'm concerned there is never any occasion where resorting to violence is an acceptable option. There need to real changes in the way both males and females view themselves if we are to reduce these sorts of mindless episodes.

Sourbastard · 06-11-2007, 05:43 PM

some of you people are certainly quick to swallow the spin of the same media who label you as anti social hoons and reckless school children murderers.

"TODAY TONIGHT TELLS ME WHAT TO THINK"

My suggestion, wait for the official trial, not the trial by media. Then you can do all the judging you want while wearing your Judge Judy© Playware Robes. Atleast until you end up in an altercation with some 60 year old bloke whos just dragged his volvo down the side of your car, then told you its your fault because of the way you parked then tries to drive off, its just a car.

But thats OK, you just snapped and lost your temper? Right? He started it after all, he pushed you, you were provoked, you were just defending yourself, you didnt know he was a haemophilliac, you didnt mean for him to hit his head. It just got out of hand! Today Tonight will understand wont they? Sure they will.

Baaaaaa.

exrtnz · 06-11-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Grievous bodily harm is almost as bad as murder in terms of jail sentence..
Which he maybe charged for...

Yeah, hes up for a long long time in jail, because someone squirted him water and he killed that person.

Fev · 06-11-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la2or

It's not a big problem watering the lawn. He is an old man paid his taxes all his life.

The reason we have the water problems is because of leftwing people like Peter Beattie who want to appease hippies against the dams.

its got nothing to do with the price of water.. its the fact that clean fresh water is not exactly in abundance.. IE THE DROUGHT.. the more we use the less we have..

schnoods · 06-11-2007, 10:43 PM

Sad Incident really.

The old guy should never had sprayed the guy with the hose, But the guys reaction was definately way out of line. I don't see him getting off at all, the charge will surely be downgraded to grevious bodily harm or perhaps manslaughter.

I'm sure that the old fella sprayed him with the hose in jest or even with sarcasm but nothing warrants the beating he got. I sure hope the guys does get whats coming for him, after all they do advertise to dob in a cheat and at the same time he could've got his facts right as well.

Outbackjack · 06-11-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

its got nothing to do with the price of water.. its the fact that clean fresh water is not exactly in abundance.. IE THE DROUGHT.. the more we use the less we have..

Plenty of water where I live.... Weird ay!!

RIPGMH · 06-11-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

some of you people are certainly quick to swallow the spin of the same media who label you as anti social hoons and reckless school children murderers.

"TODAY TONIGHT TELLS ME WHAT TO THINK"

My suggestion, wait for the official trial, not the trial by media. Then you can do all the judging you want while wearing your Judge Judy© Playware Robes. Atleast until you end up in an altercation with some 60 year old bloke whos just dragged his volvo down the side of your car, then told you its your fault because of the way you parked then tries to drive off, its just a car.

But thats OK, you just snapped and lost your temper? Right? He started it after all, he pushed you, you were provoked, you were just defending yourself, you didnt know he was a haemophilliac, you didnt mean for him to hit his head. It just got out of hand! Today Tonight will understand wont they? Sure they will.

Baaaaaa.

If you've dumped the body of some old guy due to a motor vehicle incident you should be telling the police not us....

normxb · 10-11-2007, 08:11 AM

As a parent , i think a lot of this begins with "the Rights of the Younger person" being taken out of the parents hands (No offence to the younger people here , please). in year 3 ,(age about 8) our daughter had been told at school , If she did not agree with what her parents said " Question it" , If you don't think it's fair "don't do it" , If you think your parents are wrong , "don't do it".

All this comes under the definition of Discipline and Respect . I agree "some parents go overboard" as has been proven lately , but we have always taught our children to "stop , and think of the consequences" before taking action . They've All had a quick "swat" across the backside , and you can ask any of them " has it hurt them mentally" , you'll find they will answer "It has taught them right from wrong" .

As for the excuse of being "on medication" , I've been on Penadiene Forte , Valium and Oral Morphine ( and many other drugs ) for the last 8+ years , I do not see this as a reason to become aggressive ( No , not a Bad Back) and use this excuse .!!!

I think a lot more Tolerance and Patience is needed and this comes back to attitude (lost so many years ago). Maybe there would have been a different outcome to this situation .

It is ok to "stand up for your Rights" as long as it doesn't infringe on "someone elses" .

A little bit of thought people , before you Act .

la2or · 10-11-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

its got nothing to do with the price of water.. its the fact that clean fresh water is not exactly in abundance.. IE THE DROUGHT.. the more we use the less we have..

PEter beattie and his socialist friends have known they needed to build more dams. That traveston area has been flooding recently.

Instead Beattie n co. spent tax dollars on overseas trips and such.

I think the only reason the guy will get a harsh sentence is not because of precedent but because of media coverage and because he bashed and old man.