Another 'I'm in the wrong business' moment. - Page 3

xtremerus · 24-03-2015, 06:45 PM

Back on thread.
I want to be in the business that Zilo does.

Yellow_Festiva · 29-03-2015, 02:49 PM

Guy that gave me the quote called me to ask why I hadn't made a booking for the work.

I explained that the price for installation was over the top and that the supply of materials was also over the top.

Tried to tell me that they don't like joining stuff together, yet he didn't have an answer as to why it was then ok to put a join over a 4m span when the product come in 3m lengths.

He then explained to me that Installation wasn't 2.5 grand. That the mounting hardware (glue / nails / sandpaper) wasn't part of the installation costs... and shouldn't be factored into the cost of installation.

He then went on to tell me that the job needs 5 'man days' of work spread out over 3 different visits. Their installation workers get $400 a day and the discrepancy is that 2 visits need 2 workers. This wasn't mentioned when I was getting info. I still recall that this whole job could be done on a Saturday.

Why 3 Visits?

1 visit to drill 8 holes and insert steel pins (using existing scaffolding).

1 day to come and install.

Final day to make sure it is right and run a bead of silicone along top join.

Yep - that's 3 whole days of work right there....

I think the guy saw the plans (it is a pretty large house) and rubbed his hands together salivating....

Anyway. The call ended with the guy saying that the price is the price and that's it...

I'm tempted to use the scrap piece he gave me and try and mount it myself on a wall that is to be rendered and see what happens...

MITCHAY · 29-03-2015, 11:47 PM

You could be the person earning good money to do the work or the person who has enough to pay them and not have to do it yourself.

Pay to get it done properly and properly is not cheap.

Yellow_Festiva · 30-03-2015, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

You could be the person earning good money to do the work or the person who has enough to pay them and not have to do it yourself.

Pay to get it done properly and properly is not cheap.

Yes, that is true. If it was something I doubt I could do I would find other options. I have owned several investment properties and did all the maintenance work / renovations / repairs myself. Myself and my wife make good money, but I'm pretty hands on as well.

The work in question is to stick a foam backed molding to a brick wall that is to be rendered. I have a sample and a whole heap of walls that are due to be rendered.

I'll give it a shot with the sample and if I think I can do it I'll buy the materials and do the lot.

If the price was right I would give them the job. I'm certainly NOT paying over 2k in labour to stick 3 bits of foam molding over 3 windows.

The guy on the phone couldn't explain where the money is going for the install. Nor could he explain how such a simple job turns into a job that requires 3 site visits. Each site visit would be no more than 2hrs, and that is really stretching it, yet he is charging me a whole day rate x 5...

C'mon...

Myself and my builder scrutinize every quote weather it is for $3k or $100k. When we think the price doesn't justify the work we find other options.

blueoval · 30-03-2015, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yes, that is true. If it was something I doubt I could do I would find other options. I have owned several investment properties and did all the maintenance work / renovations / repairs myself. Myself and my wife make good money, but I'm pretty hands on as well.

The work in question is to stick a foam backed molding to a brick wall that is to be rendered. I have a sample and a whole heap of walls that are due to be rendered.

I'll give it a shot with the sample and if I think I can do it I'll buy the materials and do the lot.

If the price was right I would give them the job. I'm certainly NOT paying over 2k in labour to stick 3 bits of foam molding over 3 windows.

The guy on the phone couldn't explain where the money is going for the install. Nor could he explain how such a simple job turns into a job that requires 3 site visits. Each site visit would be no more than 2hrs, and that is really stretching it, yet he is charging me a whole day rate x 5...

C'mon...

Myself and my builder scrutinize every quote weather it is for $3k or $100k. When we think the price doesn't justify the work we find other options.

Sounds like he didnt want the work. Usually that's what happens when a company just isn't interested unless its a killing. Good to see you are trying to keep them honest. By the sounds of it, its a 1 day job at most. Even at $80p/h + gst for 8hrs that's $704 maximum for labor If they added materials, what is that? $200? So inflating the price to 1k would be worse case scenario. How can those clowns justify 2k I dont know.

tapeworm · 31-03-2015, 10:30 PM

These guys are generally dumber than my dog so it is slightly irritating how they make such a killing $$ wise..

**Ross 1** · 01-04-2015, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapeworm

These guys are generally dumber than my dog so it is slightly irritating how they make such a killing $$ wise..

Just wanting to clarify your statement, are you referring to tradespeople in general or just the percentage that try to rip people off? The opinion is rather ambiguous.

FG50T · 08-04-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapeworm

These guys are generally dumber than my dog so it is slightly irritating how they make such a killing $$ wise..

Smarter than you if they run a business that generates good profit?

Franco Cozzo · 08-04-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tapeworm

These guys are generally dumber than my dog so it is slightly irritating how they make such a killing $$ wise..

A lot of white collar workers think that us tradesman should be like the USA, get paid $10/hour cash in hand like heaps of illegal Mexicans, find us sitting around at our local Bunnings on the kerb, wave ol mate Banjo Patterson at us out the window and we'll jump in the back of your ute.

No hablo Inglés!

The way wages are for auto tradies I'm not too far above the illegal Mexican to be honest, you can find me sitting on the kerb at Bursons/SCA, wave Queen Elizabeth II at me and I'll fix your car LOL.

Yellow_Festiva · 13-05-2015, 01:16 PM

Bit of an update....

Toyed around with using the product from the original quote but pondered it for a while and thought that there must be a better way.

The original product was a foam cored profile similar to below. The sample I got was slightly smaller in size, around 130mm at the back and perhaps 200mm deep. The profile then has a 5mm thick flexible render-like coating over the foam.

Would have set me back around $800 to just buy the profiles alone.

These are the 3 windows I needed covered:

Side window:

Long profile above garage door and windows:

Above round window:

Have a friend in the building supply industry that was able to score Hebel 'seconds' for free. Put in the order for picked up 15 of 600x100x200 and the same qty of 600x75x100. They have various chips and gouges but were fine for what I needed.

The idea was to add a splay to the top surface to create a slight down hill ramp for rain to not pool. This took around 2hrs to do as I needed to cut from both ends as the saw only had a cut depth of 70mm.

Bought a bag of Hebel adhesive and 12x130mm dyna bolts to glue and bolt them into the wall. I ended up getting the bolts for free from my neighbour as he is also in the building game and had about 40 sitting around.

I did intend to use Gal bolts but they will never be exposed to water as they are totally sealed. So far I'm out of pocket $30 for the bag of Hebel glue.

Counter sank the dyna bolts and started with the first course of 100mm blocks. Added washers under the dyna bolt nuts as this Hebel stuff is really brittle. The washers set me back around $9.

Had my better half helping me.. she is a bloody champion

And our supervisor was so pleased with our work she decided to take a nap:

I filled all the gaps and left that to dry overnight. That Hebel glue dries like rock - the first course isn't going to be moving any time soon.

Started on the last layer - cut a drip line into it like the profile using a router:

Used an offcut from the 100mm deep section to check that they match:

Stuck on the 2nd layer using glue and 100mm gal roofing screws. Started with a half panel so that the joins overlap on the centre of the first run.

Didn't get pics of the other windows as it was too dark and I was working under lights.

Renderer has been and has rendered around the first and 2nd window. I'm very pleased with the results... it's solid, you could walk on the ledge if you wanted to and I bet you couldn't do that with the foam filled stuff.

Didn't have time to do the 2nd run on the round window so renderer did up to the Hebel and I finished it off last night.

He has done away with the drip channel I noticed.

Free Hebel, free dyna bolts, $30 for the glue, $9 for the washers, $17 for the 100mm gal roof screws and I chipped in lunch for the mate who was helping me.

Took 2hrs to cut the 100mm bits, 2hrs to cut the 70mm bits and 30min to do the drip groove.

Took 3hrs to mount the first row and prob less than 2 hrs in total to do the 2nd row.

Had I started with the correct materials I would not have needed to do any cutting so in all honesty it really was a job that could have been knocked over in half a day by 2 guys that knew what they were doing and had the right tools at hand.

Once it's all rendered over it more closely matches the plans as well, the side pillars nearly match the Hebel in terms of width - to top section would have been much thinner should I have used the foam stuff.

I'm not a builder but I personally think I did an alright job considering I have never done this sort of work before. The $3000+ I saved will go towards other expenses

All up, I would have got change from $100 for actual expenses...

Thanks for watching!

blueoval · 13-05-2015, 02:06 PM

you did a pretty dam good job there if I do say so myself. The finished product looks spot on. Was there any need for articulation joints in the plinth itself?

Yellow_Festiva · 13-05-2015, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueoval

you did a pretty dam good job there if I do say so myself. The finished product looks spot on. Was there any need for articulation joints in the plinth itself?

Thanks! The original product was going to be installed in much the same way.

When this render dries it will be done over with a second layer of acrylic render and that stuff is really flexible. The renderer gave me a sample on a bit of plastic the size of a smokes box and I could near bend it into a circle.

The renderer is happy with my work and I gave instructions to not go over it if he thinks it wasn't a good job...

He himself suggested a wooden frame clad in blue board as another option when I met with him on site a few weeks ago. I think (hope!) my way is better.

blueoval · 13-05-2015, 03:59 PM

I think your way is definitely better. lightweight framing and blueboard is a cheap way out of it, but I have found that unless the corners have been flushed properly, you can kind of tell it's a little fake. Of course the quality of the renderer makes a lot of difference too.

danzvtil · 13-05-2015, 06:24 PM

Well done mate, youre in the wrong game!
Nice to see Yellow Jr in the pram helping out

**buggerlugs** · 14-05-2015, 07:42 AM

Top effort fella, great work..............

xtremerus · 14-05-2015, 06:42 PM

Good job.
They will be getting you to do some repairs to the Sphinx in Egypt, if they find you out.

Yellow_Festiva · 14-05-2015, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Good job.
They will be getting you to do some repairs to the Sphinx in Egypt, if they find you out.

Thanks,

Had a close look at it last time I was there... does need a bit of work!

The other ironic thing about your comment is that my builder and many of my tradies are Egyptian lol

towtaltowing · 14-05-2015, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV_Steve

$600 to have a dishwasher installed in my new house a few months ago.

Was for a new house, so all the connections were there, plumber just needed to run the piping for the plumbing and then push the dishwasher into place. Took him 2 hours to do apparently.

and i thought i was charging too much at doing them for $50