4 litre straight 6 engines, Ford v World - Page 2

GreenMachine · 12-01-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Peak power figures are not a good indicator of performance. Not everyone wants to drive around at high revs.

I do! I want a 10,000rpm, 300kw 6cyl family car. I do I do I do I do I do I do!

Shame on you, Ford! And to think Vic Bray is getting however many thousand horsepower out of a Hemi V8! To think that the Fabre cortina runs 200 mile down the 1/4 on a small block! Where's the GTP's in the VPW top 10, huh?

Shame, Shame, Shame!

xwgasaxe · 12-01-2007, 01:26 PM

It still amazes me at the level of debate that people will fire across the bows of car enthusists trying to get a reaction.

Go back to LS1.com and talk about body kits for your V6 VN!!

XPcoupe · 12-01-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprjenkins

Ford be shamed, our latest 4 litre straight 6 puts out 185kw, the TVR Sagaris also is a 4 litre DOHC straight 6, however it puts out 298kw or 400hp. Not bad for a factory 4 litre. Although there are a lot worse engines about i.e. Dodge Viper V10, that is 8.3 litres and puts out a, wait for it, mind blowing 400hp. Although the Dodge has 630nm of torque to the TVR's 420nm, I've had a brilliant idea, why dont Dodge put two TVR engines together next time to make an 8 litre engine.

Just a bit of triva. The Dodge VIPER motor is a Chev V8 with two Extra pistion casted on the end. It is the identical in design. looks like Dodge got lazy in development and just bought it off GM. I guess thats why it is such a slage for a V10.

GreenMachine · 12-01-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwgasaxe

It still amazes me at the level of debate that people will fire across the bows of car enthusists trying to get a reaction.

Go back to LS1.com and talk about body kits for your V6 VN!!

The issue is that we keep hitting the bait!

xwgasaxe · 12-01-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

The issue is that we keep hitting the bait!

Ahh it feels good to sprout off all that built up knowledge.

xwgasaxe · 12-01-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

The issue is that we keep hitting the bait!

Also by the way I have Simmons FR18s on my XW Hope your not offended
Joke

JG66ME · 12-01-2007, 01:40 PM

I have a inline six in my old Ford D 1211 20ft beaver tail truck. Its 360 CID and produces 115 bhp at 2400 rpm. It lifts its 13 ton gross up hills no worries. Would a Barra engine do this? I think not.

Like its been said, depends on designed application.

GreenMachine · 12-01-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwgasaxe

Also by the way I have Simmons FR18s on my XW Hope your not offended
Joke

I will allow certain vehicles to be adorned with these wheels, by prior approval. Submit all requests to:

The Western Suburbs Style Council

Aaron_EF8 · 12-01-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPcoupe

Just a bit of triva. The Dodge VIPER motor is a Chev V8 with two Extra pistion casted on the end. It is the identical in design. looks like Dodge got lazy in development and just bought it off GM. I guess thats why it is such a slage for a V10.

Where did you find this bit of trivia? From what I've read, the Viper V10 is based on the Chrysler wedge 'LA' motor, which is the same engine family as the 318, 340 and 360. The V10 was originally fitted to Dodge Ram pickups in the late 80's. Lamborghini were contracted to build slightly re-designed blocks made from alloy for the viper.

[edit] - bit more info - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine

Sapper · 12-01-2007, 04:55 PM

Rather than just continuing with the slagging match, why don't we look at what makes these engines good and look at ways to improve the Falcon 6 accordingly. In this case, the TVR has a more favourable bore and stroke than the Falcon. For everyone's information, the TVR's bore and stroke are 96 and 92 mm respectively. Source. What would be interesting to know, from someone who's had the head off the falcon motor, is if there's any room left in the block to bore it out.

Ruger · 12-01-2007, 05:13 PM

The Question should be now how do i bolt the tvr head to my ford block

?

xwgasaxe · 12-01-2007, 05:21 PM

I was just on the Nizpro Site and Simon seems to get some pretty good numbers and with good reliability for 5 to 20k.

Seems like conrods and oil pump gears are the critical factors.
The block and head are well up to the task.

needaXYGT · 12-01-2007, 05:22 PM

havent heard from the maker of this thread yet?

GreenMachine · 12-01-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwgasaxe

I was just on the Nizpro Site and Simon seems to get some pretty good numbers and with good reliability for 5 to 20k.

Seems like conrods and oil pump gears are the critical factors.
The block and head are well up to the task.

Wasn't Nizpro also selling 4.2L stroker cranks for the BA I6? Haven't heard any reports on how these things went, but increasing the stroke on the Ford I6 is only going to make the bore to stroke ratio even less 'square'...

70caprigt3k · 12-01-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruger

The Question should be now how do i bolt the tvr head to my ford block

?

I like the way you're thinking!

82XD393.3v · 12-01-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprjenkins

Ford be shamed, our latest 4 litre straight 6 puts out 185kw, the TVR Sagaris also is a 4 litre DOHC straight 6, however it puts out 298kw or 400hp. Not bad for a factory 4 litre. Although there are a lot worse engines about i.e. Dodge Viper V10, that is 8.3 litres and puts out a, wait for it, mind blowing 400hp. Although the Dodge has 630nm of torque to the TVR's 420nm, I've had a brilliant idea, why dont Dodge put two TVR engines together next time to make an 8 litre engine.

So here's my question, why don't australia/america make performance engines that are anywhere near as good as Japan and Europe? i'd really like to know?

The only exception I can think of is the Holden 5 litre with the black head as found on the torana, which for its day was very powerful, am I wrong, can anyone think of another one?

mate seriuosly your comparing lead with gold
thoses cars are built specifically for power and speed not to go to the shops
get back to reality spaceman
besides a turbo ford 6 are making 450 plus rwkw at a cost of less than 10grand

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffo

Ok first of all you need to get some facts straight. The 8.3L V10 Viper makes 500hp 525ftlbs (373kW 711Nm). The old 8.0L V10 Viper had 450hp 490ftlbs (336kW 664Nm). The Falcon makes 190kW not 185. And 298kW is 399hp not 400.

Ok that's out of the way then. Moving right along...

The Sagaris has a 4.0L Inline-Six with Dry Sump lubrication and I'll bet some high compression on it too, to make, according to TVR's own website, the following figures...

380bhp (284kW) @ 7000-7500rpm and 349ftlbs (473Nm) @ 5000rpm. It's rev limiter is set at 7800rpm.

Ok so first things first, acording to Top Gear and Supercars.net the Sagaris now makes 400hp which is 298.3kw, remember no one likes a smart alec, as to whether these two sources are wrong or if TVR just needs to update there website who knows.

Secondly I did say the 8.3 litre Viper didn't I, I meant the 8 litre. hence putting together two 4 litres to make an 8 litre. Which was in the first model which did put out 400hp, This had a 7990cc engine putting out 298.3 kw. This was in 1994, it was in 1997 that it was uprated to 450 hp.

The BF Falcon has 190kw, but doesn't the BA have 185kw. So while I was wrong in saying latest, you get the idea, and 5 kw isn't going to blow anyone's minds. We have both versions at work and I can't tell the difference.

So now that that's out of the way. Moving right along.

So yes, there is a valid point in saying that the most common ford straight six will be sold in the family car. Ford however does also do sports cars, Fpv does faster ones.

What i'm saying is firstly if you can get that sort of performance out of this size engine, why can't we have a reliable 230 kw NA XR6. Then imagine what you could do with the turbo/ supercharged version.

TVR's aren't kit cars, they come factory built with factory warrantys even though they may not have the reliability of a taxi. If a small group of people at a minor sports car maker can do this, why can't Ford with a much bigger budget and much more people do better.

Now I know it will cost to buy a TVR engine than a Ford engine but i'm guessing most of that can be explained by build volumes. I'm sure if Ford put their minds to it they could come up with a reliable, cheap, mass produced 230kw na 4 litre. If not they could always do what is happening in the US and sell it aftermarket like the Cammer engine.

While the TVR is also a lot more expensive than a XR6, how much do you think an XR6/XR6 Turbo would cost if they were being produced in the same build volumes, I'm not saying it would be as much as a TVR but it wouldn't be cheap.

So yeah while the TVR Sagaris is roughly $124,000AUD or $50,000 GBP at current exchange rate , a 6 litre Vauxhall Monaro starts from $92,000 AUD. The same car in Australia was roughly 55 to 60K.

I don't believe this is taxes or tarrifs because don't other shared products sell at roughly the same price after conversion?
So if this is true and all cars are roughly a third more expensive over there, a TVR here should cost roughly $82,000 if it was made by an Australian company.

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:13 AM

P.S. Another site, thanks to Hot XR6, that says the TVR is 400 hp http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z7960/default.aspx

XR Martin · 13-01-2007, 01:23 AM

In regards to a 230kw NA XR6 down the track, Holden's 3.6L V6 has gained 30kw with the addition of direct injection, the 2008 Caddy CTS gets this engine, so expect to appear in the next Commodore (VF).

I imagine the Falcon 6 with Direct Injection would gain a similar amount, lets hope the next model Falcon gets it.

RIPGMH · 13-01-2007, 01:26 AM

TVR's are the dodgiest peices of crap this side of a gen3.Talk about build quality. I think 190kw in a taxi is something pretty exceptional. If european & japanese cars are so good, why couldn't Germany and Japan win a war?? The same reason you can wax an Enzo or GTR in a falcon with half the money spent. Australia builds the best bang for buck cars on the planet. So go on buddy enjoy your VW Golf or Toyota Prius safe in the knowledge that your getting 7 litres to the 100k.

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

The same reason you can wax an Enzo or GTR in a falcon with half the money spent.

Ok buddy i'll buy a Nissan GTR and you buy a falcon with half the money i've got we'll take it to a racetrack and see who whips who. Even if you pick up an E series for $2500 put $8000 worth of turbo in it your still not gonna be much quicker than any GTR Skyline I can get for $21,000 in a straight line. Then your gonna have to put the rest into weight reduction, springs, shocks, brakes, transmission, diff gears etc to get it to even keep up around the corners. Then your gonna have to trailer it to and from the track because its going to cost you $3000 for an emissions test to get it road legal.

In fact you can buy a worked road legal GTR with rego and roadworthy in brisvegas for $17,500 so sorry bud you only got $8750 now to kick my ****, lol. http://www.carpoint.com.au/used-car/...d/2276074.aspx

RIPGMH · 13-01-2007, 01:45 AM

We could take it to a 1/4 mile instead and I'll spend half the money as I said which I figure would be around the 50k mark (decent R34 GTR being 100k) and I will wipe the floor with your yellow crap.

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:47 AM

lol as I said in my edit bud, my GTR is only costing me $17,500

RIPGMH · 13-01-2007, 01:48 AM

Better yet mate, what car do you drive? Mines all aussie, if you do practice what you preach and have a jap/euro car maybe we can put our money where our mouths are.

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:53 AM

Well I tell you what, if you practice what you preach, than give me twice what your cars worth and your on, i'll even drive all the way from melbourne lol

DOC · 13-01-2007, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprjenkins

Well I tell you what, if you practice what you preach, than give me twice what your cars worth and your on, i'll even drive all the way from melbourne lol

I think if your as good as you say you are, you should rock up to the next all ford day drags in your beast, and let us all see you tallents.

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:56 AM

BTW If your cars the one you got in your AVATAR the engine was designed originally in America even if they did make it a 5.4 here. Now I do drive a falcon and i like it alot. The point I was making is that it would be nice if they could extract a bit more power out of the factory straight 6 for the high performance models

RIPGMH · 13-01-2007, 01:57 AM

No worries bud, we'll see how eurotrash handles 48 degree heat.

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:57 AM

I was at the last ford forums nationals

sprjenkins · 13-01-2007, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPGMH

No worries bud, we'll see how eurotrash handles 48 degree heat.

No worries mate, just send me your email so I can give you my bank details for the money transfer lol