New P Plate Laws now Official

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by dumpieez_xb_ute

if they want to bring in restrictions, make it so that everyone has to abide by them.

4vman says that p platers are " more likely " to be involved in an accident? so what?

open drivers have accidents as well.

who cars who is more likely to have a prang?

road toll is road toll no matter who makes up the majority.

That's an interesting point.

The horrible driving antics of people on their open licences, often aged well over 35, are never mentioned by anyone. Not the Government, not the RTA and not the media. I am on the road alot (over 1000km a week) and see them all the time. Doing over 100km/h in the emergency lane on the side of a motorway in peak hour.... driving over median strips on 6 lane highways, staying cm off the back of a car that's already speeding because they're not satisfied with going 10-20 over the limit and the list goes on. Why should they be exempt? Why should they be getting away with these things because they've got a licence that doesn't say Provisional on them? There are learner driver's better then some of these people!

Lets see what would happen if they proposed to restrict the whole NSW Licenced population in a similar manner and the chaos it would cause. Singleing out a group with the least political power to do whatever they please to so that they can make themselves seem like they're doing something and distract people from their real aim, making money, is very low. And I hope they get voted out for it.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by dumpieez_xb_ute

4vman says that p platers are " more likely " to be involved in an accident? so what?

who cars who is more likely to have a prang?

road toll is road toll no matter who makes up the majority.

WTF? Are you serious?


The sooner they bring the "idiot test" in the better i say...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Steffo

That's an interesting point.

The horrible driving antics of people on their open licences, often aged well over 35, are never mentioned by anyone. Not the Government, not the RTA and not the media. I am on the road alot (over 1000km a week) and see them all the time. Doing over 100km/h in the emergency lane on the side of a motorway in peak hour.... driving over median strips on 6 lane highways, staying cm off the back of a car that's already speeding because they're not satisfied with going 10-20 over the limit and the list goes on. Why should they be exempt? Why should they be getting away with these things because they've got a licence that doesn't say Provisional on them? There are learner driver's better then some of these people!

Lets see what would happen if they proposed to restrict the whole NSW Licenced population in a similar manner and the chaos it would cause. Singleing out a group with the least political power to do whatever they please to so that they can make themselves seem like they're doing something and distract people from their real aim, making money, is very low. And I hope they get voted out for it.

Steffo, when the age group you speak of represent a higher % of accidents than the younger drivers then they should and WILL do something, till then they should and will focus on the higher risk groups....

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Steffo, when the age group you speak of represent a higher % of accidents than the younger drivers then they should and WILL do something, till then they should and will focus on the higher risk groups....

I would think the unrestricted driving population would be crashing in higher numbers. There are alot more of them... in NSW, everyone aged 20 to, well, 70+ can be an unrestricted driver. Whereas to be on your P's its generally 17-20 yr olds. That's a huge amount of unrestricted vs restricted drivers.

The real figures would be interesting to look at.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I would think the unrestricted driving population would be crashing in higher numbers. There are alot more of them... in NSW, everyone aged 20 to, well, 70+ can be an unrestricted driver. Whereas to be on your P's its generally 17-20 yr olds. That's a huge amount of unrestricted vs restricted drivers.

The real figures would be interesting to look at.

Seriously Steffo, you should know better than that.
Its standardised using % to highlight "higher risk" groups. The age groups seem to span 10 years, however the 17-24 year group is only 7 years but despite this "advantage" its a higher % than other larger groups...

[TUF514]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

WTF? Are you serious?


The sooner they bring the "idiot test" in the better i say...

wtf? did you even read what i said? i wasnt having a go at you, but you obviously have trouble reading and understanding.

my point being this - anyone can have an accident.

if they are serious about reducing the road toll, bring in restrictions and make everyone have to follow them.

[flappist]

Whinge, whinge, cry, cry, everyone is picking on me.....

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

You have an election coming up. Vote the bastards out.

Oh you don't vote because it is to hard or against you personal views or you always vote for xyz party regardless of policy because they are the best or daddy and mummy did then you will ALWAYS be treated like sheep and you deserve it... baaaa! baaaa! baaaa!

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by flappist

You have an election coming up. Vote the bastards out.

!

and vote who else in? My understanding is that Liberal laws will be tougher - possibly a reason why this was proposed before the election.

[Ozfords]

Good work another reason for P-Platers to hide their P-Plates.

First in NSW, it was worth taking off your P-Plates so you could do the speed limit on the highways now its so that you can get your mates in the car and drive late from parties.

There needs to be a law that requires P-Plates to be displayed clearly, securely and outside the vehicle. Instead of crappy excuses like, it fell off or it's just behind the heavily tinted window!

Other P-Platers do the right thing, don't drink, display the P-Plates so they stick out like dogs balls and the do the p-plater limit.

[FPV8U]

Another bandaid for a serious problem, wish they would actually try to fix the issue.

[GRIZZLY]

Lets face it guys. If they stuck to the rules they had in place now they wouldn't have to do any of this. More rules and regulations means more rules and regulations broken. The bone heads that break the rules now will do so in the future and these extra rules are only a burden to those (majority) that stick to the rules of the road now.
I can just see it now in the headlines "kids killed in car accident one found in boot and another 2 or 3 found laying on the floor of the car".
Kids will go to a party and the reasoning will be "oh it's just around the corner I wil sneak you home just sit on the floor or hide in the boot" and the next thing you know they are in accident unrestrained. These new rules on passengers is only to give the parents the right to say it is against the law and like speeding etc the kids go yeah right and do what they want.
There is nothing from the government saying we will educate nor train kids at school to drive or change their attitudes towards driving or other people in general. The kids today and some adults have to learn there are consequences to their actions and these should be taught early in life by parents and educators alike. We teach them to speak, we teach them to walk, we teach them their rights, we teach them maths, english, history etc but we bloody don't teach that a car is leathel weapon if not driven right.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Seriously Steffo, you should know better than that.
Its standardised using % to highlight "higher risk" groups. The age groups seem to span 10 years, however the 17-24 year group is only 7 years but despite this "advantage" its a higher % than other larger groups...

On the RTA's website, the statistics for 2005 for fatalities on the roads of drivers and their age/sex groups are as follows....

Male -

0-4: 0
5-16: 0
17-20: 17
21-25: 24
26-29: 13
30-39: 25
40-49: 19
50-59: 15
60-69: 9
70+ : 20
Unkown: 0
Total: 142

Female -

0-4: 0
5-16: 0
17-20: 6
21-25: 3
26-29: 6
30-39: 10
40-49: 6
50-59: 6
60-69: 8
70+ : 4
Unkown: 0
Total: 49

Now since I can't find 2005 population stats, I'll post the 2001 NSW stats as well, since I have 2001 Census information...

Male -

0-4: 0
5-16: 2
17-20: 28
21-25: 11
26-29: 8
30-39: 26
40-49: 14
50-59: 15
60-69: 11
70+ : 20
Unkown: 0
Total: 135

Female -

0-4: 0
5-16: 0
17-20: 2
21-25: 4
26-29: 3
30-39: 6
40-49: 9
50-59: 10
60-69: 4
70+ : 6
Unkown: 0
Total: 44

Now based on the 2001 Census, ASB stats for 2001 NSW are as follows...

Age 0-4: 422,341
Age 5-14: 891,009
Age 15-24: 845,345
Age 25-54: 2,731,604
Age 55-64: 592,394
Age 65+ : 828,475

Now since the RTA statistics differ slightly, we'll add the 5-14 and 15-24 population figures together, giving us 1,736,354. Now we add up both male and female 5-16 and 17-20 stats giving us 32. 32 is 0.0018% of 1,736,354.

Compare that to people 70+, of which 26 died in NSW in 2001 and their figure of 828,475 on the census (slightly less since it counts 65+). 0.0031% of them died. So that means, statistically, a 17 year old is a safer driver then a 70 year old.

What about the big age bracket on the census, 25-54. Adding up the RTA stats that coincide you get 106 people. 106 is 0.0038% of 2,731,604. So what's shown is that according to this (and I admit its a tad rough, a bit more detail would have been good from both sites) summary of statistics, the most dangerous group of drivers in this country are aged between 25 and 54. Goes a bit against what the Government is saying, doesn't it? Lets restrict 25-54 year old drivers to only naturally aspirated 4 cyl cars, no passengers at night, no demerit points, no handsfree and whatever else we can think of! They're most likely to kill themselves, so it needs to be done. _

[bArNsY]

They should bring in tougher rules for over 65's as they have a higher risk in minor accidents than the 15-25yo's

they might start with an over 65's plate

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bill_R

and vote who else in? My understanding is that Liberal laws will be tougher - possibly a reason why this was proposed before the election.

You just don't get it do you?

If the other side play up, VOTE THEM OUT NEXT TIME.

Pollies do not get all their perks if they get rolled after one term. And they all want to be in power. If they think they will get rolled they will not do NOTHING.
Why do you not think that cigarettes have not been banned outright? Too many smokers (at the moment). As soon as the number of smokers drops below a critical number it will be all over.

Now the trick is to vote youe local guy out. It doesn't matter who it is or what party, give them a fright. This is how "grey power" got their way.
If every person in NSW between 18 and 25 voted against the incumbent they WILL roll the government.

Statistics are used to support agenda, any unsupporting stats are ignored or discredited.

Oops sorry, generation Y. If it doesn't happen in the next 30 seconds then it is too late but there is plenty of time to complain later.....

[Miller]

I'm all for points 1 4 and 5. If we should be stuck on 0 points for speeding offences, then the people that come up with these laws in the first place should be too, due to the they that they are 'good role models'

[Steffo]

I'll be voting. I can't wait to. I would do more if I could. These laws won't affect me as much as some, but just the same I think its stupidity and an invasion of civil freedom that should not be allowed to go on.

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by flappist

You just don't get it do you?

If the other side play up, VOTE THEM OUT NEXT TIME.

.....

um yeah, sure. You know what the liberal policy is adn you'd vote for a tougher policy?

[GRIZZLY]

Originally Posted by Miller

I'm all for points 1 4 and 5. If we should be stuck on 0 points for speeding offences, then the people that come up with these laws in the first place should be too, due to the they that they are 'good role models'

Mate that what we had to put up with 30yrs ago when I first got my licence. One mistake and you lose it but only in the first year. I can't see why you can't put up with it. The passenger one is the problem for me. That one to me is a ticking time bomb.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

As has been stated countless times unfortunatly young drivers (17-24) are much more likely to be involved in an accident than any other age group, and its on the rise, this is fact.
Something HAS to be done, no single initiative will resolve it, but HATS off to the authorities for at least trying, i believe there will be "idiot testing " introduced soon too, but maybe we should stop grizzling and moaning over these rules and just work with them hey....

I agree, like in my previuos post, I just reckon that they dont go far enough in the rite direction.... Weed out the buffoons and give the responsible new drivers a chance to get on with building on their skills. The CLP (opposition at the moment) in the NT have a policy where if a new driver has passed an approved driving skills test, they can shorten their time on a P license. This plan has merit.

[merlin]

For those that don't know the rules have been introduced as the road toll from this year to last remained stagnant in all age groups (and was the lowest since WW2 I think they quoted) except P platers which had increased fatalities by 30%. They are overrepresented.

Personal opinion is you will never stop all accidents from happening, but you can minimise them - In that regard, I think some of the new laws are good and disagree with others. The most simple solution is to put more police on the roads targeting poor driving. Also it is my opinion that comprehensive insurance should be made compulsary.

[TUF514]

Originally Posted by bArNsY

They should bring in tougher rules for over 65's as they have a higher risk in minor accidents than the 15-25yo's

they might start with an over 65's plate

ahh i love it.

the oldies wouldnt like that. theyd be throwing thier teeth at the pollies in no time.

[XR8-260]

I'm glad it doesn't affect me :

Long live the lax laws in WA

[eb91xr6]

wow when i got my p's all i had to do is 2 lessons and then got my p's thats a hell of alot of work to get your licence i look at alot of people around 16-19 that havent get there Ls due to it been too hard and some dont have the money as driving instructors arnt cheep. but i guess its a good thing but i think u learn more from been on the road by your self and after you have your 1st crash you become alot more responcible as there are always going to be the dick heads on the road that put 5 of there mates in a stock family car and do 200km/h on open road where there is no police and they end up all dead. its down to the driver not car and training and all that.

but as said before it dosnt affect me so i can just say haha and move on

[Polyal]

Oh cry me a river!

Originally Posted by merlin

New laws as of July 1:

1) Must display P plates on outside of vehicle. Outside/inside as long as its visiible, since when wasn't this the case?

2) Can only carry 1 passenger under 21 years old between 11pm and 5am Makes sense, you can get a lift to a party and not back, big deal, you manage to spend x amount on smokes/beer/drugs and your too tight to catch a cab! It makes perfect sense to restrict during this time, a thing called peer pressure comes to mind.

3) 0 Demerit points for speeding offences - automatic suspension
Thats a little odd, I would have thought suspension and loss of points would have made sense, although getting done for 3kph over is going to be harsh.

4) L plates go to 12 months minimum Thats not standard already?

5) 120 hours of supervised driving experience and a 45 minute test, 30 mins of which has to be on a busy road with focus on hazard perception..Again, thought that was standard

What I find even stranger is how laws change from state to state, thats stupid. What the heck is a P1 and P2?

One country with so many different laws for the same thing, thats a bigger problem IMO. How does a P plater in VIC differ from NSW? _

[eb91xr6]

the 0 point thing means that p'platers will always get there olds to take the heat as they will lose there licence and most cant e ****** taking there kids to school when they could drive, alot of my friends have had there fokes take the points as they didnt want to lose there licence, i think its just stupid go back to the rule i had witch was u get a speeding fine u have 4 demerit points and u get a brech of licence fee of like $52 or somthing and you keep your licence aslong as u have 1 or more points.

[Polyal]

I think the parents have issues, id never take points for my kid, how are they going to learn their lesson?

Its not like its one fine and your out. I cant remember how many points you get on your P's (12 IIRC), thats plenty, if you lose more than that you dont deserve your license.

[4Vman]

Ive used 2 points in 20 years of driving... and travelled well over half a million K's, and there are hundreds of thousands of people who have done the same, it isnt that hard to avoid being booked....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think the parents have issues, id never take points for my kid, how are they going to learn their lesson?

Its not like its one fine and your out. I cant remember how many points you get on your P's (12 IIRC), thats plenty, if you lose more than that you dont deserve your license.

I agree, maybe parents should pass the "idiot test" too before being allowed to teach their kids to drive responsibly....
Afterall, i firmly believe allot of the behavioural issues displayed by many young drivers are "learnt" from their parents (Teachers), or at the very least not properly corrected by them....

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive used 2 points in 20 years of driving... and travelled well over half a million K's, and there are hundreds of thousands of people who have done the same, it isnt that hard to avoid being booked....

Exactly.

I was no angel, copped 3 fines with 3 months of being on my P's. But I learnt, cost me a small fortune and eventually it sunk it that there is a time and a place.

I haven't had a fine in ages, I couldn't even remember when the last one was. I guess its just the amount of time it takes to sink in is the large variable.

[bArNsY]

For those interested in the latest Victorian L's, P's and full license rules click here