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Old 08-11-2006, 06:39 PM   #31
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It will be very had to turn around 17 years of poor resale value.

BUt a bit of marketing wouldn't hurt.. If I was not a member of FF, I would NEVER had heard about the new BF series, or the Force6/8, only the font ghia and the territory.

Some marketing and some beasty looking non-fpv's for the punters.. and yes to a GTHO. definately!

The turbo BA/BF turbos are an excellent car, but with what marketing??? They rely on the stickers on the back of the cars.. need to do more than that.
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Old 08-11-2006, 06:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feebs
It will be very had to turn around 17 years of poor resale value.

BUt a bit of marketing wouldn't hurt.. If I was not a member of FF, I would NEVER had heard about the new BF series, or the Force6/8, only the font ghia and the territory.

Some marketing and some beasty looking non-fpv's for the punters.. and yes to a GTHO. definately!

The turbo BA/BF turbos are an excellent car, but with what marketing??? They rely on the stickers on the back of the cars.. need to do more than that.
Is Falcon's resalve value much different than Commodore BA onwards especially? But I agree if I wasnt a member of AFF I dont think id know of the BF or FPV force6/8. The BA/BF turbo's are excellent as you say but I think they do need to look different from the XR6 NA. Market how much of a pleasure they are to drive & the sea of torque that you could drown in.
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Old 08-11-2006, 06:51 PM   #33
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Yes it is!

We had a 04 falcon and a 04 commodore.. sold one (the commo)

a- because I LIKE the falcon a lot more more
b- because we got 5 grand more trade in for the commode.
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Old 08-11-2006, 06:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feebs
Yes it is!

We had a 04 falcon and a 04 commodore.. sold one (the commo)

a- because I LIKE the falcon a lot more more
b- because we got 5 grand more trade in for the commode.
S h i t that is a fair differance. Was it an XR Falcon? Also did the Falcon & Commodore have similiar km's featuers/option's etc.



2004 FORD FALCON .2004 HOLDEN COMMODORE
view price view price
Description BA XT Sedan 4dr SA .4sp 4.0i VY II Executive Sedan 4dr Auto 4sp 3.8i
Prices based on km 30,000 - 50,000 30,000 - 50,000
Trade in $10,900 - $12,400 .$10,600 - $12,200
Private sale $13,400 - $16,000 .$13,300 - $16,000
New Price $34,780 .$32,740
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Equipment ABS (Antilock Brakes), Adjustable Steering Col. - Tilt & Reach, Air Conditioning, Airbags - Driver & Passenger (Dual), Body Colour - Bumpers, Body Side Mouldings, Calipers - Front 2 Spot, CD Player, Central Locking - Remote/Keyless, Disc Brakes Front Ventilated, Disc Brakes Rear Solid, Drive By Wire (Electronic Throttle Control), Electric Seat - Drivers, Engine Immobiliser, Independent Rear Suspension, Intermittent Wipers - Variable, Multi-function Control Screen, Multi-function Steering Wheel, Power Door Mirrors, Power Steering, Power Windows - Front only, Remote Boot/Hatch Release, Remote Fuel Lid Release, Tacho, Trip Computer, Velour Trim ABS (Antilock Brakes), Adjustable Steering Col. - Tilt & Reach, Airbags - Driver & Passenger (Dual), Alarm, Armrest - Front Centre (Shared), Body Colour - Bumpers, CD Player, Central Locking - Remote/Keyless, Cruise Control, Disc Brakes Front Ventilated, Disc Brakes Rear Solid, Electric Seat - Drivers, Engine Immobiliser, Headlamps Automatic (light sensitive), Independent Rear Suspension, Intermittent Wipers, Multi-function Control Screen, Multi-function Steering Wheel, On-board Computer, Power Antenna, Power Door Mirrors, Power Steering, Power Windows - Front only, Remote Boot/Hatch Release, Remote Fuel Lid Release, Seatbelt - Load Limiters 1st Row (Front), Seatbelt - Pretensioners 1st Row (Front), Seatbelts - Lap/Sash for 5 seats, Speed Dependant Volume Stereo, Speed Dependant Wipers, Stainless Steel Exhaust, Sunvisor - Illuminated Vanity Mirrors Dual, Tacho, Trip Computer, Velour Trim
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Old 08-11-2006, 06:53 PM   #35
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The general message is seemingly quite clear...pull your finger out Ford and get stuck into some serious marketing. That deisel commodore is bad news too, with their slick marketing, that would sell heaps. When then brings us back to the start, if Ford were to market their LPG more, such as the Around Australia for less than $1000, we too would sell more LPG falcons. There are no TV ads or Radio for that matter that advertise that challenge, very dissapointing. If only there was a simple way to get the message accross...

At the moment, Holden are practically selling ICE to eskimo's. They are pulling a very big mask over the Australian public, and doing a very good job.

let's play dirty, try some ambush and smeer marketing like the opposition, whats wrong with having a crack at your competitors on TV ads, without using their name of course, but just do something, anything. Don't die wondering, have a crack Ford Australia
Actually Cuey that wasnt the message I got from reading the responses. The number one was raising the sales experience and the service. Both if improved will do far more for Ford by word of mouth then any ad budget Ford could ever russle up.

I like the new Fairmont Ghia ad and the car, but my local Ford dealer will never get my business again. Now if Ford kicked his **** or did the right thing by local Ford owners/buyers and replaced him...

Dan
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Old 08-11-2006, 07:12 PM   #36
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The XR & FPV (&Fairlane) ranges should've got a facelift similar to rest of range, new bonnet & front bumper (on XR) at least, Its no wonder Fairlane sales are so low, They look 2much like a 02 falcon, what about a turbo Fairlane, make 6sp auto standard auto for all falcons & territory RWD,
FPV Force* is cool, but I don't reckon the name suits it, what about a limited ed FPV based on Fairlane complete with bulge
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Old 08-11-2006, 07:13 PM   #37
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1) Restructure of Marketing Campaign - more television, more magazine ads etc
2) Restructure of Dealerships in aspect of service departments and customer service -pull them into line or boot their *** out
3) Increased profile of FPV as more than just the GT company
4) Flow-on from #3, increase FPV lineup to smaller models i.e XR5, XR4 etc
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b2tf
1) Restructure of Marketing Campaign - more television, more magazine ads etc
2) Restructure of Dealerships in aspect of service departments and customer service -pull them into line or boot their *** out
3) Increased profile of FPV as more than just the GT company
4) Flow-on from #3, increase FPV lineup to smaller models i.e XR5, XR4 etc
all of the above, or maybe go over the way they make cars and see if they can make the assembly and manufacturing more efficient.

i think you'll find if you told all this to ford they'd say they advertise alot and also sponsor/support alot of charitys and events...that pink ribbon thing...child abuse...a few tv shows and some sporting events.

the only problem is they stay behind the lion instead of shooting past, imported cheaper cars hurt sales across the range

service (in dealerships) is bad, i could name a lot of workers id give the sack

i believe Ford are waiting for something or they have exhausted all options and need to put alot of effort into the new falcon and other resources.

all we can do i keep buying Ford's.
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:19 PM   #39
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put performance in there FPVs for **** sake we shood of had a mid 13 second car back wen the BA GT come out, none of this high 13 to low 14 crap
this is what i was getting at in my earlier posts
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:34 PM   #40
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also, does anyone know why ford is bringing out their new falcon model over a year later of holden bring out their commodore?
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Old 08-11-2006, 08:53 PM   #41
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Knowing Ford it won't be to learn how to do it better, just to get their own time in the limelight I'd guess.
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Old 08-11-2006, 09:21 PM   #42
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I think there are a few issues that Ford has to address:

their cars are not holistic enough. By that I mean they look like bits have been tacked on rather than packaged by design. When you see an FPV you see a Falcon with plastic bits and stickers tacked on. By comparison the base model commodores look like they are a car with bits taken off. There's something they they started doing after the coke bottle shaped car era whereby the panels accentuate the thin skin by way of raw edges and sharp folds ... it also gives the impression the body is separate to the chassis rather than integrated


the shape of the car does not have wide appeal. It may look quite nice as a mid sized vehicle, but the proportions are not quite right, making it look cumbersome and thirsty.

the dealers are second tier, probably because they can't afford good passenger car salesmen on a car turnover about half that of holden. The experience I had with Ford sales was either them sniping commodores or trying to sell me a Jap car on the same lot.

they just don't sell the virtues. I read an article interview with the top Ford bloke and he scoffed at the VE not having anything that the Falcon didn't already have. Well maybe he should spend less time indoors patting himself on the back for making half the sales holden do and get that information out to the public, before the rival steals the show. Looking at a TV ad of a car driving down a highway is hardly informative and by itself won't tantalise potential clients to investigate further.

maybe instead of the slogan "Built Ford Tough" they could appeal to middle australia who don't want to be seen as rough and tough. Sure Ford make trucks and canyoneros, but surely they don't want their family cars associated with them. Umbrella branding the falcons would give an extra degree of separation, like the commodore range successfully achieved.
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:58 PM   #43
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what would sew up the big car market?

supercharged xr8's and hi-po turbo 6's.

make a supercharger a cheap extra, say around 2-3 grand.

goodbye holden!
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:14 PM   #44
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i agree with alot of the views in this thread except for 1.
FORGET ABOUT BRINGING BACK THE HO NAME. that name is too legendary to re ignite. a new ford will never have the same feel to it as the original HO's. the gtp should be the new HO without the HO tag. but as if people will buy it without p/s a/c and all the rest of it. but the main thing that ford need and i mean really bloody need to do is work on their marketing/advertising, build quality and and and every step from the customer walking into the dealership to after sales service, from what i have read in these forums ford really suck at them.

PULL YOUR SOCKS UP FORD AND CANE THE OPPOSITION LIKE YOU DID AT BATHURST THIS YEAR!
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Old 08-11-2006, 11:57 PM   #45
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OK, ford need to take a multi pronged approach to many facets in order to lift them all the way up the charts. Personally, I think they have a superior product that is currently selling itself, not selling because of any effective marketing. The new fairmont ad is a start but Ford need to expand. If TV is too expensive, try running the ads at clever times ie, not prime time - less expensive. Also, try radio to compliment TV.

Another thing ford should do, is get away from the ****y effects tv ads, these are far too expensive. The territory ad was good with all of the morphing of objects but it would be rather expensive. Years ago, ford did an ad for fairlane with the NF version. Very cheap by way of no ****y effects, but very effective. Add to this, a clever jingle to the effect of their previously successful "have you driven a ford lately?" campaign. Discuss ford as a thoroughbred in any commercials, and its link to some of the top marquees and especially how some of the BF2 falcon was derived from these marquees.
Draw on Fords successful history as the first mass producer of cars, and the first to offer an affordable car. Advertise that fords come standard with air conditioning for example. What needs to be done is to focus on fords image within the community, and because money is tight ford should stop sponsoring stupid events like the cricket or the football and advertise heavily.
As for the vehicles themselves, Ford have done a remarkable job on the BF2 and the whole B series platform, changing it now is far too impractical. However, the V8 4V's desperately need a kick in power and for that I recommend an edit similar to that which ford has done previously with the AU2's. Up the power and see what happens.

Changing the vehicles now would be too expensive and a step backwards so ford should look at offering more specials of perceived value rather than eroding margins. Small things like xenon headlights at to the myriad of cheap yet seemingly expensive upgrades, say a $200.00 option. The kits themselves are able to be sourced in sydney at a cost of approximately $50.00 on a volume order. These kind of inclusions however would further differentiate ford from Holden.

Finally, Ford need to really look at reeling in rogue dealers. There are some fantastic dealerships out there like Jubilee Ford, and some not so great. What ford should do at little expense is to follow mercedes lead and survey some customers as to their satisfaction levels on a dealership basis. This would allow them to gather info on the dealers and advise them accordingly.

In summation,
Ford need to advertise effectively,
Promote their proud history,
Find a way of getting into peoples mind through a catch phrase,
Do something about the v8's urgently,
Allude to the future,
Offer a better differentiated car than Holden,
Reprimand shonky dealers.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:00 AM   #46
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Simple solution - buy all the dealerships back and run them properly, either that or make it harder for dealers to stay in the group.

Customer service is something Ford dealers know very little about, sadly they are in a market where fleet companys rule and thats all they care about even tho they make **** all money out of them. It seem as though its all about numbers.
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Old 09-11-2006, 12:18 AM   #47
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I agree. I think if they make another its got to be an HO and its got to be special. I really can't wait for 08. I reckon ford will hit back with a real animal. Hope I am right, other wise I will be keeping my old 04 GT.
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Originally Posted by photn
Cease all Production of the GT and GT-P at the end of current model... in my opinion there are too many of them and should really be a collectors car like the Previous GT....

Release a GT-HO version with the new Model. Improve on Marketing IE have funny and interactive adds. also have historic aspects....make PPL want to see the ADD....

Give the FPV team an upbeat Aggressive look by the customers..make sure the Public know that an FPV means business. not that its just the next step in price.....

Capitalise on the Latest Bathurst Win.....

basically alot of Marketing...
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:33 AM   #48
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Long term success:

1) Fix quality issues (i will never buy new again until this is done)
2) Fix resale (as above)
3) Introduce a 4 cylinder option for the Falcon and/or design and build a medium size Aussie made saloon to undercut Mazda 6 and Honda Accord Euro (they have the capability to do this aka Territory).
4) Diesal option across the entire range - Falcon, Territory and Focus.
5) Step-up the marketing, it is non-existent.
6) Introduce a halo car - why does every 12 to 25 year old want a Skyline? Because they grew up hearing about the GTR Godzilla which crushed everything before it and think their GTST can do the same. Build an AWD GTHO twin-turbo V8 or inline 6. Sell it at a loss - it is basically a marketing exercise to capture the hearts and minds of 12 year old boys up. Think of the loss as money spent on marketing.
7) Borrow aluminium technology from Jaguar.
8) Take control of dealer network or introduce stricter measures.
9) Sponsor driver education in schools - supply XT Falcons to do this. Every 15 year olds first drive will then be in a Ford - that makes a big connection to the brand.
10) Increase the performance of its performance cars - wether this be power, gear ratio's, or wider tyres.
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Old 09-11-2006, 04:16 PM   #49
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You can't be serious, a 4 cylinder option for Falcon. I'd hate to see how much fuel a 2 litre engine would use pulling around a heavy weight Falcon. Holden proved a 4 cylinder won't work in large cars with the 4 cylinder Commodore, it was a flop.
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Old 09-11-2006, 04:58 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8
You can't be serious, a 4 cylinder option for Falcon. I'd hate to see how much fuel a 2 litre engine would use pulling around a heavy weight Falcon. Holden proved a 4 cylinder won't work in large cars with the 4 cylinder Commodore, it was a flop.
4 cylinder engines have come a long way since the 1970's...

It would be big with fleets and people who buy Camry's and looking for a change.

My preferred option would be a medium based saloon ala Mazda 6 but I dont think they have the money to do this, I believe the Mondeo may be coming but this is obviously a Euro car and hence Euro pricetag.
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:17 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin
4 cylinder engines have come a long way since the 1970's...

It would be big with fleets and people who buy Camry's and looking for a change.

My preferred option would be a medium based saloon ala Mazda 6 but I dont think they have the money to do this, I believe the Mondeo may be coming but this is obviously a Euro car and hence Euro pricetag.
But manufacturers don't use them to haul around 1600+kg. The Camry is around 1500kg and the fuel economy is within 0.3L per 100 of a 6 speed auto Falcon. Come Orion i'm sure they will have the economy down to that level. What would you rather, a 200kw 6 that uses 9.9L per 100 in a big car or a 2.4 litre 4 that uses 9.9L in a medium one. Orion may even pass the Camry for economy. It has to to survive, it would make a great selling point. Size and economy.
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:29 PM   #52
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1. Keep marketing as is
2. Keep the current range as is
3. Continue to pay dividends back to FoMoCo where possible
4. Ignore fordforums.com.au
5. Impliment a cost cutting initiative at Geelong, or at least impliment a program to move fixed costs to more variable costs.
5. Concentrate on the next gen Falcon - work out supply contracts, spend the money on supplier relations, impliment a quality assurance program early, overhaul distribution networks
6. Review design of next gen falcon to allow for more diverse range of engine adapations from throughout the ford catalogue
6. Spend money on research and design of the next generation falcon to allow easy compliance with US and Euro emissions, design and crash rules and laws.
7. Beg FoMoCo for funding to begin planning the next generation Territory.
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_au
1. Keep marketing as is
2. Keep the current range as is
3. Continue to pay dividends back to FoMoCo where possible
4. Ignore fordforums.com.au
5. Impliment a cost cutting initiative at Geelong, or at least impliment a program to move fixed costs to more variable costs.
5. Concentrate on the next gen Falcon - work out supply contracts, spend the money on supplier relations, impliment a quality assurance program early, overhaul distribution networks
6. Review design of next gen falcon to allow for more diverse range of engine adapations from throughout the ford catalogue
6. Spend money on research and design of the next generation falcon to allow easy compliance with US and Euro emissions, design and crash rules and laws.
7. Beg FoMoCo for funding to begin planning the next generation Territory.
I'm sure FoA would be well past No. 7 on your list as I type this. I do like your fourth point but i'm sure the ignorance grows every time they read the solution to FoA's problems is a four letter badge.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:21 PM   #54
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Stop doing taxi's, all it does is cheapen the brand.
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:35 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8
You can't be serious, a 4 cylinder option for Falcon. I'd hate to see how much fuel a 2 litre engine would use pulling around a heavy weight Falcon. Holden proved a 4 cylinder won't work in large cars with the 4 cylinder Commodore, it was a flop.

The Escape has a 4 cylinder 2.3 litre Duratech engine that pulls a 1986 kg GVM car quite well.

Actually not a bad idea.
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:58 PM   #56
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Like the V series suggestion. Maybe a real R series with performance along the lines of XR but sleeper looks more like standard range or Force.

Fiesta R2 with 2.0 Zetec
Focus R4 with 2.0 Turbo Zetec
Falcon/Fairmont/Ghia R6 with 4.0 IL Turbo
Territory TR - TS based 4.0 IL Turbo
Fairlane R6 with 4.0 IL Turbo

Bring in Mondeo to complement. Sports Hatch & Diesel Wagon priority.

Diesel - Focus, Territory, Utes, Fairmont, Fairlane with 6 spd & HD Tow / Cruise specs.

LPG - Focus, Territory, Utes, Falcon, Futura, Fairmont, Fairlane

Now for the dreamtime....
Sell inline 6s to Jag for new S type and LandRover for Disco3 to replace V6. LR2 has 3.2IL transverse from Volvos. Geoff Polites should know the motor if reminded. Get diesels in return.
Maybe Jag could use a Territory based SUV - We could use a Disco based off roader.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:00 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Yaw
The Escape has a 4 cylinder 2.3 litre Duratech engine that pulls a 1986 kg GVM car quite well.

Actually not a bad idea.
Maybe they could call it Sigma or Magna. 2.6 Auto used juice like an 8
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:28 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Caseterritory
Maybe they could call it Sigma or Magna. 2.6 Auto used juice like an 8

Escape XLS Xlt 2.3 lt 4 cyl
Fuel consumption- ADR 81/01 (L/100km-rounded) 10.51

Falcon XT 6cyl (petrol)
Fuel consumption- ADR 81/01 (L/100km-rounded) 13.211

I would also summise that the falcon would be a lighter car
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:44 PM   #59
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Escape Xlt 2.3 lt 4 cyl
Fuel consumption- ADR 81/01 (L/100km-rounded) 10.51

Good vehicles Mum & Dad have two. Happy economy little acceleration.
Turbo the 2.3 like in MPS and now you're talking.

We had two V6 XLTs and they averaged 14.8-15.2, similar numbers to our Territories.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:54 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Caseterritory

Good vehicles Mum & Dad have two. Happy economy little acceleration.
Turbo the 2.3 like in MPS and now you're talking.

We had two V6 XLTs and they averaged 14.8-15.2, similar numbers to our Territories.
Putting the engine into a lighter vehicle like the falcon would elivate that issue.

For the record I have a V6 Escape that averages about 13.5, similar to the standard base version of the XT falcon (the comparison car I used for the example)
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