VFACTS April 2024

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by kypez

How is answering a question a bait? Why ask a question then?! That's acting like a child. If you think your question was somehow witty, then you've got bigger problems.

They stop reporting in June or July.

Just knew you would reply, didn't think it would be so quick. Do you get a PM eveytime the word Tesla is posted?
Anyway, don't take it too seriously mate.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Just knew you would reply, didn't think it would be so quick. Do you get a PM eveytime the word Tesla is posted?

Anyway, don't take it too seriously mate.

No. I was replying to jpd80's comment about the 2.3 ecoboost when I saw your comment.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Wow, combined sales of Ranger and Everest were 7,969 or just under 8,000 sales.
That alone is more than third place Mazda with 7,301.

How ironic that Mazda’s sales come from “everything else” that Ford can’t supply,
what a shame Mazda wouldn’t supply Ford with rebadged versions of popular models..

I’m curious to know what is happening at Toyota, Hilux sales have dropped back
while RAV4 soars to top of sales……whatever, Toyota always seems to have the
right vehicles at the right time.

Probably a case of Toyota trying to get more Rav customers orders delivered...when delivery times blow out so far issues like model upgrades or even major upgrades, price increases etc..becomes a real headache as a customer's order overlaps these changes.

From Jan 2024
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota...mes-to-be-cut/

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Probably a case of Toyota trying to get more Rav customers orders delivered...when delivery times blow out so far issues like model upgrades or even major upgrades, price increases etc..becomes a real headache as a customer's order overlaps these changes.

From Jan 2024
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota...mes-to-be-cut/

Thanks, I have to keep remembering that sales numbers are now what is being delivered by manufacturers,
there’s probably loads of forward orders and ship timings can really skew the numbers we see.

For me the up tick in Ranger and Everest are everything I’ve been hoping for but I got myself in
a dark place, someone convinced me that the T6 team was being wrapped up in Australia,
now I know that’s all BS, I’m excited by the fact that future products won’t be just minor refreshes….

[whynot]

Originally Posted by jpd80

while RAV4 soars to top of sales

Toyota have had a rough run with RAV4 production over the last few years. COVID causing general havoc with electronics supply chain. Then an explosion in the foundry in the supplier factory that makes front end components. Then down for a few days because a back end IT server ran out of disk space. Plus the general issues with shipping delays of late.

It looks like the supply tap is a bit more open now.

To Toyota's credit, the RAV4 is a good car for the market segment that it is targeting. It has an efficient drivetrain and, for once, Toyota have delivered a vehicle with reasonable roadholding (again, reasonable for its targeted market segment).

I think Toyota would sell a lot more RAV4 if people weren't put off by the very long wait.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by jpd80

there’s probably loads of forward orders

And that leads to a really interesting question. Exactly what have customers been doing the last few months when they walk into the dealership?

There was a bit of chatter recently about forward orders starting to dry up, and then that chatter has gone quiet.

Does anyone on the inside have insight as to how customers are reacting the last few months? Have the forward numbers stayed the same or gone down?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

In Ford Australia form, why stop there? Let's go all in and offer the following off the one platform -

Dual Cab Pickup
Extra Cab Pickup
Single Cab Pickup
Panel Van
Coupe Pickup
Coupe Wagon
Long Wheel Base Pickup
Long Wheel Base Wagon
Convertible Pickup
Convertible Wagon

On top of all that, they should only offer the high-priced variants so as to fully separate people from their money.

Don't forget a Ranger based hatch, just scale down all the dimensions by 60%

Originally Posted by whynot

Toyota have had a rough run with RAV4 production over the last few years. COVID causing general havoc with electronics supply chain. Then an explosion in the foundry in the supplier factory that makes front end components. Then down for a few days because a back end IT server ran out of disk space. Plus the general issues with shipping delays of late.

It looks like the supply tap is a bit more open now.

To Toyota's credit, the RAV4 is a good car for the market segment that it is targeting. It has an efficient drivetrain and, for once, Toyota have delivered a vehicle with reasonable roadholding (again, reasonable for its targeted market segment).

I think Toyota would sell a lot more RAV4 if people weren't put off by the very long wait.

Its real popular amongst 30-something women for some reason

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Don't forget a Ranger based hatch, just scale down all the dimensions by 60%

Jimny is making Suzuki a great profit in that segment. Launched at $25k, they're now close to $40k and still selling well. A mini Ranger would do well if from a profit margin perspective.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Jimny is making Suzuki a great profit in that segment. Launched at $25k, they're now close to $40k and still selling well. A mini Ranger would do well if from a profit margin perspective.

I can't believe the price rises on the Jimny, was wicked at $25K, at $40K you have to have rocks in your head to be buying one of those I reckon

But these days $60K is the new $30K.

Given you can get new Kei trucks at around $25K you'd be better off going one of those if you want some cutesy mini 4x4.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by whynot

And that leads to a really interesting question. Exactly what have customers been doing the last few months when they walk into the dealership?

There was a bit of chatter recently about forward orders starting to dry up, and then that chatter has gone quiet.

Does anyone on the inside have insight as to how customers are reacting the last few months? Have the forward numbers stayed the same or gone down?

I think the fact that manufacturers are offering discounts again says it all. There was no discounting 12 months ago.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I can't believe the price rises on the Jimny, was wicked at $25K, at $40K you have to have rocks in your head to be buying one of those I reckon

Yep, was going to get one for bush-bashing. But not at $40k. Just makes no sense whatsoever at that price. That car is a piece of crap, and low price was the only thing it had going for it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

Yep, was going to get one for bush-bashing. But not at $40k. Just makes no sense whatsoever at that price. That car is a piece of crap, and low price was the only thing it had going for it.

I'd even have one as a daily at the price they were, but at $40K you're joking,

Its turning into the VDJ79 of 4x4s.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

What's sad is that engine is offered in the VW Amarok twin but Ford aren't offering it. Madness

Sorry, missed this one.
Keep in mind that VW paid Ford to provide this option but limited to ~$80K Adventura

Ford has done a great job with diesel Ranger and Everest, Ranger Raptor too and because of that,
I defer to their judgement on what they will and won’t add to the Aussie range. Nice to have
has never worked as a business case but I’m hoping there’s a way to slip a few EBs into the range..

[naddis01]

It will be interesting to see how the GWM Cannon Alpha hybrid goes. Bigger than a Ranger, 255kW and 648Nm prices at $65k on road.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sorry, missed this one.

Keep in mind that VW paid Ford to provide this option but limited to ~$80K Adventura



Ford has done a great job with diesel Ranger and Everest, Ranger Raptor too and because of that,

I defer to their judgement on what they will and won’t add to the Aussie range. Nice to have

has never worked as a business case but I’m hoping there’s a way to slip a few EBs into the range..

Still, VW feel it worthy of the top of the line model. The 2.3 is much quicker than even the V6 and much nicer drive.

I wonder how many VW are selling of the 2.3?

I'd agree with you with Raptor being a commercial vehicle success story. There are so many little things that annoy me being a private buyer though.

No memory seats other than on the Platinum.

Blue paint not being offered on the Platinum grade

Gotta go full Raptor for a Petrol engine

Few more things but these do annoy me.

[XR Martin]

How many Amaroks are being sold? Seeing heaps on the road.

[Big_Daz]

Originally Posted by kypez

Still, VW feel it worthy of the top of the line model. The 2.3 is much quicker than even the V6 and much nicer drive.

I wonder how many VW are selling of the 2.3?

I'd agree with you with Raptor being a commercial vehicle success story. There are so many little things that annoy me being a private buyer though.

No memory seats other than on the Platinum.

Blue paint not being offered on the Platinum grade

Gotta go full Raptor for a Petrol engine

Few more things but these do annoy me.

I can only comment on one dealer where I took one for a test drive (just out of interest). If I wanted a V6D Adventura I'd have to order one and wait 9 months... the 2.3 Ecoboost? They had 5 sitting there in stock ready to go and where willing to talk to me about a "good deal". I wasn't buying as I have an Everest Platinum for wifey already but it says it all really. I don't think its because its a bad option; I actually rated it pretty highly, quicker than the V6D. You have to wonder if its the price point and what people spending nearly $90k want, and if them putting it in the lower spec Core/Life/Style versions as an option things would be different...

Should Ford do it? They don't really need to... 5600 Rangers sold a month, 2400 Everests without it. A base XL/XLS hi rider 4x2 with it could be interesting, even an XL/XLS 4x4 which may bring the price of entry down from the diesel variant....

[PG2]

If I had a Ranger wish list, it would be;

2.3 EB low-rider 4x2 Extra/Space Cab maybe offered in XL/XLT/Wildtrak trims.

I'd buy one in Wildtrak trim - depending on price of course.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

I can only comment on one dealer where I took one for a test drive (just out of interest). If I wanted a V6D Adventura I'd have to order one and wait 9 months... the 2.3 Ecoboost? They had 5 sitting there in stock ready to go and where willing to talk to me about a "good deal". I wasn't buying as I have an Everest Platinum for wifey already but it says it all really. I don't think its because its a bad option; I actually rated it pretty highly, quicker than the V6D. You have to wonder if its the price point and what people spending nearly $90k want, and if them putting it in the lower spec Core/Life/Style versions as an option things would be different...



Should Ford do it? They don't really need to... 5600 Rangers sold a month, 2400 Everests without it. A base XL/XLS hi rider 4x2 with it could be interesting, even an XL/XLS 4x4 which may bring the price of entry down from the diesel variant....

I think we've been successfully brainwashed that diesel is better. It's a false economy when you consider the cost of servicing, injectors and problems with emission devices needed for modern diesels.

Shame really. I'm going to go to our local VW dealer. Getting tired waiting for the Raptor.

[Warrenk]

Originally Posted by kypez

Shame really. I'm going to go to our local VW dealer. Getting tired waiting for the Raptor.

I was at a Ford dealer (Warwick, Qld) on Saturday, and they had about 7 Raptors for sale. I did ask him why so many. He said that due to shortage v6 diesel engines they increased the production of the Raptor(believe or not).

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

I was at a Ford dealer (Warwick, Qld) on Saturday, and they had about 7 Raptors for sale. I did ask him why so many. He said that due to shortage v6 diesel engines they increased the production of the Raptor(believe or not).

A glut of Gray and Black ones were made and delivered. If I didn't want Blue, I could have one pretty easily.

Story I got was that a lot of speculators from last year, looking for the flip, have walked away from their deposits with the market softening

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

If I had a Ranger wish list, it would be;

2.3 EB low-rider 4x2 Extra/Space Cab maybe offered in XL/XLT/Wildtrak trims.

I'd buy one in Wildtrak trim - depending on price of course.

Similar to me on the engine choice, however mine:

- 4x2 Single Cab
- Factory integrated electric brakes
- Vinyl floors
- Electric windows
- 6sp or 10sp auto

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Similar to me on the engine choice, however mine:

- 4x2 Single Cab
- Factory integrated electric brakes
- Vinyl floors
- Electric windows
- 6sp or 10sp auto

I'd be calling my dealer instantly if Ford had the balls to do a 2.3 EcoBoost single cab, I so over diesel engines.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I'd be calling my dealer instantly if Ford had the balls to do a 2.3 EcoBoost single cab, I so over diesel engines.

Small displacement diesel engines are absolute junk, especially modern ones, they're fragile, sensitive and expensive to maintain pieces of shit.

It makes ZERO sense why we still use small displacement diesel engines in LCVs or SUVs when you've got turbo unleaded engines which come on peak torque earlier, hold it way longer and cost less to maintain with more reliability - look at Ford Ecoboost product range, the things come on peak torque at 1500 RPM.

Yeah there's a penalty on fuel usage because of the lower energy density of unleaded vs diesel and some efficiency because of the lower compression ratio - however you can take out some of the sting with hybrids.

The only thing diesel should be used for is medium and heavy commercial vehicles, boats/ships and that sort of thing where they're actually worked like a diesel engine wants, and you know you have torque figures that are four figures and start at off idle.

You* using it to drive to the shops or do the school run isn't what a diesel engine wants.

I think this is where the US has it right is that their LCV and passenger vehicle customers hate diesel engines and rightfully so, especially the shit we've had since Euro IV which was the start of the downfall.

*You as in generalisation of the average Thailand Special owner.

Add to my list 16" interceptors, don't want alloy wheels for what I do to my ute.

[XR Martin]

I'd argue all modern diesels are garbage.
EGR, DPF, adblue have made them all a ticking time bomb. And with all that they still pollute more particulates and NOx than an old petrol engine.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Small displacement diesel engines are absolute junk, especially modern ones, they're fragile, sensitive and expensive to maintain pieces of shit.

You* using it to drive to the shops or do the school run isn't what a diesel engine wants.


*You as in generalisation of the average Thailand Special owner.

Add to my list 16" interceptors, don't want alloy wheels for what I do to my ute.

It's taken me 8 years to do 40,000 km in my 2.2 Ranger, a lot of that is short trips going from job to job, or driving the 6.3 kms to/from work. As you say, not ideal for a diesel and I'm kinda expecting some repercussions from that at some point. If Ford offered a petrol engine, I would have bought that instead.

[DFB FGXR6]

The argument for diesel has always been the torque, but modern turbo engines do that too. As for the 2.2 I have, that torque is only available at 1800 revs and nowhere else, it's got nothing up to that point, nothing after it. So its sh.t to drive, noisy when you need to rev it out and painfully slow everywhere, downright dangerous in some situations. The engine in that vehicle lets the whole show down, I'm otherwise very happy with the thing.

Apparently the above is what customers want.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

It's taken me 8 years to do 40,000 km in my 2.2 Ranger, a lot of that is short trips going from job to job, or driving the 6.3 kms to/from work. As you say, not ideal for a diesel and I'm kinda expecting some repercussions from that at some point. If Ford offered a petrol engine, I would have bought that instead.

Should I need a new replacement for the Thailux the current front runner is the Hilux Workmate, the 2.7L unleaded job.

However the $7000 price rise on them from $26K DA to $33K DA is a bit rich.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The argument for diesel has always been the torque, but modern turbo engines do that too. As for the 2.2 I have, that torque is only available at 1800 revs and nowhere else, it's got nothing up to that point, nothing after it. So its sh.t to drive, noisy when you need to rev it out and painfully slow everywhere, downright dangerous in some situations. The engine in that vehicle lets the whole show down, I'm otherwise very happy with the thing.

Apparently the above is what customers want.

I don’t think they’ve ever had more torque, that’s just a commonly parroted myth from decades gone by due to the ultra short gearing of diesel powered LV.
A good comparison might be a TD42 and 1HZ against an E series SOHC.
Even in turbo form those diesels are average in torque. 24v 1hdt and FTE with intercooler are ok.
Put that gearing behind a Falcon 4.0 and there will be no traction in the first three gears in the dry.

Diesel only got good around turn of the century Mercedes 3.2 and BMW 3.0 160kw and 500nm which shat on the alternative 6 and 8 cylinder petrol engines in economy and real world performance and only using EGR for emissions control.

Franco, why not a Falcon Ute?

[oldel]

Originally Posted by smoo

Franco, why not a Falcon Ute?

'cos he wanted one for $4k, anything more than that was drug money.