Why we're ALL about to go out and buy PHEVs

[Franco Cozzo]

I guess the difference is your power station delivers the same amount of power rain hail or shine at full capacity, whereas rooftop solar depends on clouds being in the sky.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with renewables, we should amend our construction codes that all new houses need to have a minimum 15kWh solar system - but it's user pays, you need to have it or you don't get to build your new house.

With factories, same deal but on a much larger scale, if all the factories in Tullamarine and Keilor Park had rooftops full of solar it would probably power those two suburbs completely and more.

But you'll pay for it yourself, no tax payer subsidies. There we go we have our green energy revolution.

I'm suspect on batteries being able to store enough energy on a state level to compensate for what we currently use coal for. Keep in mind we are talking in an era without manufacturing anymore either.

How old are our brown coal power plants? Isn't there a way like we do with cars to clean up what comes out the exhaust?

I think we need to consider nuclear energy.

[JasonACT]

And yet, apparently tax breaks.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No it won’t because by the time those PHEVs get here they are so friggin expensive that most ignore them

PHEVs will certainly be cheaper than Teslas
And they'll be a ****-tonne cheaper in real terms, after this is enacted.

Originally Posted by jpd80

No they won’t, there are still rules that apply for business usage and most people will take actual business usage as a way of enabling a better deduction that avoids FBT question altogether.
For those playing along at home, the government still requires people to establish actual business percentage usage for passenger vehicles, that aces any concerns about FBT in my books.

And once again you have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.
I barely know where to begin with that nonsense.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with business use.
Anything used for business purposes is, by definition, tax deductible. Doesn't matter whether it's a EV, or an F350 Super Duty.

The issue, again by definition of what we're actually talking about (ie FBT) is PRIVATE USE, and specifically in this instance Cars that are Salary Sacrificed for exclusively personal use.
I realise you have some giant weed up your **** about dual cabs, and I'm sorry your boss wouldn't let you take the work ute home, but that again is irrelevant.

An employer can legally provide you with just about anything as a Fringe Benefit. And anything they do provide as a Fringe Benefit automatically becomes tax deductible.
They could pay to have your balls waxed, and it would be tax deductible. The downside is that (after all the formulas are done) they'd pay FBT that effectively works out equivalent to you simply getting the money as salary and paying tax at the top marginal tax rate.
There are a few things that are exempt from FBT, and there are some employers (Charities, Churches, PBIs, etc, which also get partial exemptions) but for most people, there is simply isn't much.

What Each-Way is proposing, is an exemption for "EVs".
Now as I said, this is an election promise, and very short on detail, so I won't be surprised if it doesn't eventuate, or if limits are imposed.
But as written, they are proposing to make EVs (including PHEVs) upto the luxury tax limit, exempt from FBT.
That means no FBT, so no calculation necessary.
Whether they buy an EV and let you drive it home,
Or they lease you an EV,
Or they just give you one,
the effect will be the same. 100% tax deductible to them, and no FBT.

That means that whatever the mechanism you can afford, you'd be able to get your employer to pay for your EV out of your pre-tax income.
For someone paying the top marginal rate on all that amount, this would almost halve the real cost of the car.

[MITCHAY]

If we were smart enough, we would have built nuclear power plants decades ago just like we should have nuclear weapons too to make us 100% independent.

Two or three birds, one stone

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

this would almost halve the real cost of the car.

Sign me up! It's certainly not half for someone like me, and I'm keeping my FG2 XR6T.. But I'd like to keep it for a weekender, and have a cheap EV to do the 12K round trip each day.

[MITCHAY]

The only thing that is a barrier for EV is cost and range. You sort both of those then that is the new daily with the dino fuel weekender.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

The only thing that is a barrier for EV is cost and range. You sort both of those then that is the new daily with the dino fuel weekender.

https://evdirect.com.au/ Atto3

Here's one coming to AUS built by a Chinese battery company BYD.
New Blade batterys which don't catch fire when punchured, has beaten Tesla with this tech and priced to sell.
Looks a bit alright as well.

Toyota has enlisted BYD to build their upcoming EV Corolla. They must be ok if the Yoda has signed off on this.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

PHEVs will certainly be cheaper than Teslas
And they'll be a ****-tonne cheaper in real terms, after this is enacted.

And once again you have no ****ing idea what you're talking about.
I barely know where to begin with that nonsense.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with business use.
Anything used for business purposes is, by definition, tax deductible. Doesn't matter whether it's a EV, or an F350 Super Duty.

The issue, again by definition of what we're actually talking about (ie FBT) is PRIVATE USE, and specifically in this instance Cars that are Salary Sacrificed for exclusively personal use.
I realise you have some giant weed up your **** about dual cabs, and I'm sorry your boss wouldn't let you take the work ute home, but that again is irrelevant.

An employer can legally provide you with just about anything as a Fringe Benefit. And anything they do provide as a Fringe Benefit automatically becomes tax deductible.
They could pay to have your balls waxed, and it would be tax deductible. The downside is that (after all the formulas are done) they'd pay FBT that effectively works out equivalent to you simply getting the money as salary and paying tax at the top marginal tax rate.
There are a few things that are exempt from FBT, and there are some employers (Charities, Churches, PBIs, etc, which also get partial exemptions) but for most people, there is simply isn't much.

What Each-Way is proposing, is an exemption for "EVs".
Now as I said, this is an election promise, and very short on detail, so I won't be surprised if it doesn't eventuate, or if limits are imposed.
But as written, they are proposing to make EVs (including PHEVs) upto the luxury tax limit, exempt from FBT.
That means no FBT, so no calculation necessary.
Whether they buy an EV and let you drive it home,
Or they lease you an EV,
Or they just give you one,
the effect will be the same. 100% tax deductible to them, and no FBT.

That means that whatever the mechanism you can afford, you'd be able to get your employer to pay for your EV out of your pre-tax income.
For someone paying the top marginal rate on all that amount, this would almost halve the real cost of the car.

I know that you missed the point on business usage I made above and that is partly my fault for not
explaining that train of thought regarding current position of many company vehicles vs the changes.

OK, let’s try something different, how much fringe benefit do you think gets paid on vehicles now?
The answer is sweet FA because of the strategy I mentioned earlier, actual business usage.
The first thing accountants tell bosses and their employees is to go run a log book and gather
evidence of high business usage/ low private usage that’s potential FBT. So currently, many of
those FBT liable vehicles used as company cars are being declared at 90% business usage or more..
Sure there are some that don’t reach those levels but I guarantee that many seek to minimise FBT.

My point is that all those currently having FBT liable vehicles will just switch to a complying non-FBT electric
and simplify the tax process for themselves and more importantly the tax department as well.

And for what it’s worth, I don’t have a stick up my backside about dual cab Utes, the changes were made
to save the tax department money in assessing tens of thousands of FBT liable vehicles, the changes
we’re all about how the government could save money by reducing tax department compliance employees.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ivorya

https://evdirect.com.au/ Atto3

Here's one coming to AUS built by a Chinese battery company BYD.
New Blade batterys which don't catch fire when punchured, has beaten Tesla with this tech and priced to sell.
Looks a bit alright as well.

Toyota has enlisted BYD to build their upcoming EV Corolla. They must be ok if the Yoda has signed off on this.

I'm suspect on the claimed driving range, let's see what the real world results are like.

[jpd80]

And I’ll be interested to see how many execs switch away from buying Ranger Raptors
and the like to Teslas and other EVs. We may find a significant exodus from the dual cab
Ute segment as buyers choose electrics from other manufacturers..

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Vekgib

When I go on a cruise and the ship is run on electricity, or when I fly overseas and the plane runs on electricity, then I'll consider buying an EV.

Spot on , sick of hearing how much road transport pollutes or how cow farts are destroying the planet, based on news agenda of the day.
Yet everyone conveniently forgets about this.

All those in favour of nuclear power I vote every plant needed, can be built in all the capital cities.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Spot on , sick of hearing how much road transport pollutes or how cow farts are destroying the planet, based on news agenda of the day.
Yet everyone conveniently forgets about this.

All those in favour of nuclear power I vote every plant needed, can be built in all the capital cities.

@10c per KwHr, it just doesn't compete now with Renewables. + the waste and where to store for 1000's or yrs.

Won't be long and your plane flight will be Carbon free. https://www.upi.com/Science_News/202...5781643303801/

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Spot on , sick of hearing how much road transport pollutes or how cow farts are destroying the planet, based on news agenda of the day.
Yet everyone conveniently forgets about this.

All those in favour of nuclear power I vote every plant needed, can be built in all the capital cities.

I'd even live next to it, cheap property prices and work across the road

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'd even live next to it, cheap property prices and work across the road

And marry a girl call Marge, Ok Homer.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by ivorya

@10c per KwHr, it just doesn't compete now with Renewables. + the waste and where to store for 1000's or yrs.

Won't be long and your plane flight will be Carbon free. https://www.upi.com/Science_News/202...5781643303801/

I won't be holding my breath.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I won't be holding my breath.

I wouldn't recommend doing that, you may pass out!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I won't be holding my breath.

[mad2]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Won't be long and your plane flight will be Carbon free.

i like how everyone & his/her dog keeps on bringing up carbon .... carbon this carbon that . . . . . talk about flogs

we pollute this planet with more than just excess carbon. any chance we can also clean up those nasty craps too??.


ohh .... nah sorry won't happen till it's way too late

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Spot on , sick of hearing how much road transport pollutes or how cow farts are destroying the planet, based on news agenda of the day.
Yet everyone conveniently forgets about this.

All those in favour of nuclear power I vote every plant needed, can be built in all the capital cities.

Some countries are really starting to look at Ammonia (NH3) as an alternative to petrol and gasoline

I found this article from 2020 had some interesting insights and thought it might pique your curiosity

A perspective on the use of ammonia as a clean fuel: Challenges and solutions

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...0.1002/er.6232

It is a well-known fact that almost one-third of the total consumed energy in the world is used in the transportation sector where fossil fuels are primarily used to produce common transportation fuels, covering diesel, gasoline, jet fuel, etc. Their extensive use has been causing very high levels of greenhouse gases, ranging from 20% to 30% depending on the nation's development. Although there is a big attempt to transient to electrical and hybrid vehicles by manufacturer and governments, it seems that is not possible to complete this transition in a short time due to infrastructure, economical, and raw material issues. However, the current environmental indicators indicate the requirement for quick and effective actions. Moreover, the diesel- and gasoline-powered generators used in residential, commercial, utility sectors, and off-grid applications contribute to fossil-based fuel consumption and increase the CO2 emissions. The use of ammonia in combustion processes, such as internal combustion engines and gas turbines, can be a key solution in a faster transition to the hydrogen economy.

Recently, there have been numerous attempts to use ammonia in internal combustion engines and gas turbines.
The California Public Utilities Commission has met with industry stakeholders on alternatives to diesel generators as part of an ongoing microgrid proceeding and is considering replacing the diesel generators with ammonia-driven ones for 2021. It is planning to change 350 MW of diesel generators used in 63 substations, to ammonia-fueled ones.

2 Japan has launched a serious action plan for ammonia use to produce, especially in electricity production. It is expected that 1% of electricity consumption will be met by ammonia-driven systems in Japan.

3 For this purpose, ammonia-fueled gas turbine program has been started for power generation in Japan.

4 A Japanese marine company has announced starting a project on ammonia-fueled ships and fuel supply systems for it.

5 Much more ammonia applications are introduced in the following sections in detail. Despite unique advantages of ammonia, there are some challenges related to its toxicity, flammability and combustion in traditional engines, turbines and power generators.

In this perspective article, clean ammonia is considered as a potential, carbon-free solution to processes and systems in various sectors and discussed from various viewpoints, such as potential sources, key methods for production, storage modes and distribution options, applications, advantages, disadvantages, combustions challenges and solutions, and future prospects. It is also evaluated as a clean fuel and proposed for combustion applications. Furthermore, some key solutions to potential challenges in the use of ammonia are discussed and addressed for practical applications.

I was wondering if powering trucks and railway locomotives with Ammonia as a way of getting bang for bucks, especially if the cost can be lower than diesel. The reduction /elimination of carbon emissions would put those engines into a new level of perception. The best part is that we can and do manufacture Ammonia here in Australia so cutting big oil off from profiteering from from our transport industry

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mad2

i like how everyone & his/her dog keeps on bringing up carbon .... carbon this carbon that . . . . . talk about flogs

we pollute this planet with more than just excess carbon. any chance we can also clean up those nasty craps too??.

That's the last time I go Indian

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by mad2

i like how everyone & his/her dog keeps on bringing up carbon .... carbon this carbon that . . . . . talk about flogs

we pollute this planet with more than just excess carbon. any chance we can also clean up those nasty craps too??.


ohh .... nah sorry won't happen till it's way too late

Why is it ok to pollute the air you breathe and not the water you drink?

[mad2]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Why is it ok to pollute the air you breathe and not the water you drink?

where did i say that?

we pollute everything - the air, water & soil. even our bodies [& no Franco i do not mean that way ].

Originally Posted by mad2
i like how everyone & his/her dog keeps on bringing up carbon .... carbon this carbon that . . . . . talk about flogs

we pollute this planet with more than just excess carbon. any chance we can also clean up those nasty craps too??.


ohh .... nah sorry won't happen till it's way too late

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by mad2

where did i say that?

we pollute everything - the air, water & soil. even our bodies [& no Franco i do not mean that way ].

So, looking at the pie graph of our pollution, We shouldn't attack anything?

Us Flogs (as you called us) are pushing for Carbon decrease. Quite a simple thing to do.
Maybe when this is done, Us Flogs will move onto something else like Plastic pollution in the oceans, etc. Did you know, some Flogs are quite educated in these fields. Fun fact, they've now found an algae eating this plastic. Awesome you say. Well yes, until the bioaccumulation in the food chain.
Who enjoys Seafood? Hmmm yummy plastic....

I understand where you're coming from, us humans are disgraceful with the what we do do and treat things but to call out people for trying.........

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How many EV's can you actually buy for under 77k? Not many.

Plenty. And for a brand like Tesla, most of their sales are in that sub $77k bracket.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[mad2]

Originally Posted by ivorya

So, looking at the pie graph of our pollution, We shouldn't attack anything?

Us Flogs (as you called us) are pushing for Carbon decrease. Quite a simple thing to do.
Maybe when this is done, Us Flogs will move onto something else like Plastic pollution in the oceans, etc. Did you know, some Flogs are quite educated in these fields. Fun fact, they've now found an algae eating this plastic. Awesome you say. Well yes, until the bioaccumulation in the food chain.
Who enjoys Seafood? Hmmm yummy plastic....

I understand where you're coming from, us humans are disgraceful with the what we do do and treat things but to call out people for trying.........

if you want to call yourself a flog who am i to argue.......

we already have the plastic in our food chain. in fact the plastic we manufacture can be found any where on this planet!.

and get rid of the single use plastic bags ........ and replace them with still more plastic bags [even if they are a thicker variety] & well . . at least now they can make a biodegradable plastic


funny how something's look to be the best to use & easy as well ... but are the worst things to use in hindsight. [not just plastic]

everyone is going on about carbon as the be all & end all, it's not, it's a part of it. an ICE car/truck/bus is the most polluting yes .... electric a little less polluting & i'm talking the whole cycle of starting from digging up the materials to manufacturing the vehicles to the end of their life cycle. same with the solar panels, just hopefully doing less polluting to this planet we all share.


i'm saying we need to do more than just clean up our carbon excess.


Ps. by flogs i mean humans ....... & that includes me

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by mad2

if you want to call yourself a flog who am i to argue.......

we already have the plastic in our food chain. in fact the plastic we manufacture can be found any where on this planet!.

and get rid of the single use plastic bags ........ and replace them with still more plastic bags [even if they are a thicker variety] & well . . at least now they can make a biodegradable plastic


funny how something's look to be the best to use & easy as well ... but are the worst things to use in hindsight. [not just plastic]

everyone is going on about carbon as the be all & end all, it's not, it's a part of it. an ICE car/truck/bus is the most polluting yes .... electric a little less polluting & i'm talking the whole cycle of starting from digging up the materials to manufacturing the vehicles to the end of their life cycle. same with the solar panels, just hopefully doing less polluting to this planet we all share.


i'm saying we need to do more than just clean up our carbon excess.


Ps. by flogs i mean humans ....... & that includes me

A Hint Spud..... It's called research ;)

You'll find new bio plastics being made from seaweed, starch etc that break down in 60days.
Recycling plants of solar is occuring.
Australian companies have designed a processing plant for the recycling of Li ion batterys and have plants running in Germany atm.

Things are happening. Just not pushed by the FOX media. I wonder why?

[mad2]

Originally Posted by ivorya

A Hint Spud..... It's called research ;)

You'll find new bio plastics being made from seaweed, starch etc that break down in 60days.
Recycling plants of solar is occuring.
Australian companies have designed a processing plant for the recycling of Li ion batterys and have plants running in Germany atm.

Things are happening. Just not pushed by the FOX media. I wonder why?

yes i do actually know that but it's a mere trickle. i try not to read any fox media as too full of ....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kypez

Plenty. And for a brand like Tesla, most of their sales are in that sub $77k bracket.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

There’s also Hyundai Kona EV as well and I think that VW has ID4 planned for Australia next year so vehicles are coming.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There’s also Hyundai Kona EV as well and I think that VW has ID4 planned for Australia next year so vehicles are coming.

Yep! There are plenty. MG, Nissan, Hyundai, the list goes on. They are under $60 for many of them. Heck, even Polestar

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There’s also Hyundai Kona EV as well and I think that VW has ID4 planned for Australia next year so vehicles are coming.

Yep, we're waiting for a Megane E-tech... hopefully early next year.