Manual or Autmatic better and why

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Ford17

Interesting to know.

The 4 speed auto looked pretty cool in the "Can't get enough of this" TV ads.

Mate I've driven both a number of times and there is no doubt the ZF a far better box. Runs beautifully in auto mode, makes the 4 speeder look as aging as it is.

I just hate it's "manual mode". Seriously it just does what it wants and that really annoyed me! ha . Just constantly decides what it wants to do, leave at high revs in 3rd then sure enough, 4th it is........

The DSG in mine has overidden once in over a year.....as I was redlining it and it said "enough".....ha. Both pull up to a stop themselves but that's ok as actually ideal.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

I agree but it's not really that helpful in peak hour......

I guess my OP should have been if you had to run just one car which would you pick?

I suspect if had multiple cars manual would be far more popular

I dont have to run one car, have a few.

[X-AHH]

Originally Posted by arronm

I dont have to run one car, have a few.

image

Hmmm, silver seems to be a popular colour at your place?

[arronm]

I do you a ego territory

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

...leave at high revs in 3rd then sure enough, 4th it is........

High revs in 2nd gear is ~110kph in my 2012 XR6T with a ZF. Mine has never changed up on its own in manual mode - ever. Hits the rev limiter and then you simply slow down a bit. It changes down gears though as you slow down, but only as far back as 2nd, never back to 1st while in manual mode.

I only ever read about one other person who complained about the ZF and how it shifts. I reckon you (both) drove a crook one.

[Citroënbender]

In auto, if you give the stoppers a firm push-and-release (like maybe approaching a sharp corner at speed), does it shift down one or two gears and hold it with the converter locked?

[JasonACT]

I don't think so. Shifting down is based on speed (auto or manual mode) so that would depend on how much speed you wiped off, but the converter does what the converter wants. That's a different story, and I assume torque plays a role there.

[JasonACT]

FYI - You can see my 'speed' graph here, 1st to 2nd change at ~58kph, and lost a bit of speed in the change:



well above 100 and even in auto mode - no up-shift. And I've done the same in manual mode. Went faster than this when I didn't have 4 fat people in the car!

[Franco Cozzo]

How good is the 1st ratio in the BTR? It feels like you can break the sound barrier in first and still wind it out some more

[JasonACT]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

That's the end of this thread then!

[FTE217]

Grew up on manuals for back then you learnt on one and autos were the low %.
Times change as we know, sometimes not for the best but for the needs as they say.
Owned a few more daily autos but yer who cares.
Daily now hilux 4x4 is auto, meh daily is daily thats all it is for me.
Due to lack of choices when looking at T3's longlong ago I succumed taking a auto/ess.
Love the car full stop handles so well and goes for what it is BUT after the honeymoon I so missed it not an manual.
When I went put deposit down for the Sprint8 manual all the way.
I know its not a dialy but when I do use it at times in Sydney peak I dont find it hard at all - changes are easy and the clutch is soft.
Spirited driving int he T3 is still great fun BUT in the Sprint its AWESUM.

[JasonACT]

(What I responded to previously was removed...)

I learned on a manual, but also had an auto available to learn on...
4 speed manual, did a litltle over 160kph - not bad...
3 speed auto, did 140kph - meh. Intrinsically kind-of makes me want a manual now.
It was a 1.4L(4) vs 2.0L(3) too.
Moving on, my cars... 4 speed auto (with man +/- mode) 2.2L, 5 speed manual 1.8L, 6 speed auto ZF 4.0L-T...
What's available now? 8 speed auto, 10 speed auto...
NO!
I can handle the ZF 6 speed. It's kind of slow when red-lining to change up (~1s) but very fast (much faster) if you're at 4000rpm or less. But I don't want more gears!
I think you can have the best of both worlds in an auto, if it's the right one... Clutch control is the only difference in my opinion, which in 90% of cases makes no difference to driver engagement.

(I still think this is the end of the thread.)

[anobserver]

Auto for daily driver. Manual for weekender preferred but not essential.

Reconditioning an auto can get expensive, but id consider a car with the btr 4 speed as a second car. I understand its probably tbe cheapest to fix if it goes bang....?

Not being mechanically handy doesnt help.

[GTMOND]

Auto is nice, but the durability of them is a worry, and the expense of repair, especially modern autos. The Focus is a great little car with a ruined reputation because of dsg.
I bought a LZ focus for my wife, but had to be a manual, so easy to drive.
My 909 Kenworth at work has 2.15 million kilometers on the Eaton gearbox, which is always pulling 195 tons, admittedly not the nicest box to shift with that many klms, but you that says enough for durability.

[roddy1960]

Three chariots here . All different . The XR6 ZF six speed with sports shift of course . The AU ll with the BTR Auto and the Honda Accord (1985 vintage) with the 5 speed manual.

ZF ...I love it either way . The normal auto mode is beaut and adjusts the shifts to how willing you drive it . Once I got used to the semi manual mode I really enjoy it especially on our two local twisty Passes . It's fun but it'd be funner with paddles I guess .

BTR.. Really smooth and reliable . It has the normal and economy mode as we all know . I guess 90% of the time it's Economy but occasionally I disengage that and drive in the normal mode . Some are saying I'm doing it the wrong way round.

Honda 5 speed... This is beaut to drive ..Nice light clutch that was reconditioned by previous owner not too long before I bought it about three years ago .

No absolute favourite but in the Honda it harks back to 1978 when I first got my licence and what my old Dad said ." Auto's boy are a lazy man's car " Dad didn't like auto's much and never ever owned one.

I guess he influenced me in that direction for ages . I had a Mini , two Escorts , XE Falcon , Telstar Ghia and an EF Futura that were all manuals . Then I bought the AU , my first auto . I also had a Magna wagon that was 5 speed manual that the Honda replaced and the BA Fairmont with sports shift auto and now the XR6 that replaced that .

Hardly ever used sports shift 4 speed in the BA but the ZF in the FG is another matter ..

Horses for courses I guess but living in the bush means not too much city stuff . I guess if I was the auto's would be easier to live with especially as you get older ...

[MercuryT]

That's interesting about rarely using "manual" in the BTR Roddy.

I did 200thou K in my Turbo only in "manual. Can't remember using basic auto ever!

Same goes for my DSG - straight into manual and use paddles every drive!

[98TLS]

Getting to work (60k round trip) is done in a little Mitsi hatch which is a manual,utterly boring but also utterly reliable and cheap on gas,weekends i use a 2017 Triton also manual for everything,trips away or a cruise in the weekend is a BA GT-P which is an auto though always driven in P mode,preference when i started looking was manual but couldnt find one worthy at the time then came across the P which was right ks/rare-ish colour/right rims etc etc so it was job done,horses for courses i guess as in manual/auto it was never going to do track days/drags etc i simply being a lifelong Ford fan wanted to own a GT and use it to cover miles in comfort with a bit of grunt,having spent much of my life on two wheels my preference when it comes to enjoying a windy road is always the two wheel option, to be fair if they had to be done solely on 4 wheels it wouldnt be in a Falcon but whatever it was it would be manual.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

High revs in 2nd gear is ~110kph in my 2012 XR6T with a ZF. Mine has never changed up on its own in manual mode - ever. Hits the rev limiter and then you simply slow down a bit. It changes down gears though as you slow down, but only as far back as 2nd, never back to 1st while in manual mode.

I only ever read about one other person who complained about the ZF and how it shifts. I reckon you (both) drove a crook one.

Well that is great if that is your experience.

The ZF i drove definitely didn't hold gears consistently if too high or too low revs. Overrode me a number of times.

It was great in normal mode but selecting yourself i found frustrating compared to a DSG.

[MercuryT]

I preferred the BarraT engine to the VW, but complete opposite with regard to transmission.

If Ford had made a quick, nimble wagon I'd be fine with the ZF though

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

ZF ...I love it either way . The normal auto mode is beaut and adjusts the shifts to how willing you drive it . Once I got used to the semi manual mode I really enjoy it especially on our two local twisty Passes . It's fun but it'd be funner with paddles I guess .

Why yes, yes it is:







If the car was shifting-up on its own in the last 12 months I've been using them, I would have noticed.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How good is the 1st ratio in the BTR? It feels like you can break the sound barrier in first and still wind it out some more

yet so many haters.

[Sabantien]

I was always a manual driver. When I bought my G6E I was on the hunt for a manual, but I was pretty sold once I drove the car. But I probably wouldn't have with a 4 speed.

Loved the auto in the city, and now I live out west, well I still like the auto. All i'm doing is getting up to 110 on the highway. Sometimes i'll put it in manual mode, but I get bored of that pretty quickly.

All the work vehicles are manuals, and it doesn't bother me to drive them (beyond sitting at high revs on the highway because they're 5 speeds).

Over all, I think I prefer autos these days. Next car will likely be manual, because in the price range i'm looking at, most 4wds are 4 speeds. Meh!

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

That's interesting about rarely using "manual" in the BTR Roddy.

I did 200thou K in my Turbo only in "manual. Can't remember using basic auto ever!

Same goes for my DSG - straight into manual and use paddles every drive!

..I suppose most of that was due to I didn't have the car all that long and had a fair few drivetrain issues , coil pack issues , sat nav /radio etc and tyre wear . I bought the BA Fairmont Ghia (2003) cheap in late 2014 and traded it on the XR6 in March 2016. Never really got to really enjoy the car . Manual mode was fine to use but just never bothered with it much on the back of the other issues . Car was nice looker though..Engine was great too other than coil packs failing . No doubt an electric issue not engine itself.

Worst part was despite a fair bit of time and cash we could never get the tailshaft /centre bearing warble to go out completely .Diff was fine though strangely . Tailshaft was sent away for balancing and all . Couldn't get the radio to work properly , CD stacker was jammed and the car yard was supposed to fix that but never did and the factory sat nav had apparently been tampered with.

Fifteen months ownership was enough . She was less than 200K clicks too. Won't ever buy a car again , no matter how cheap without a proper look over and decent test drive . Never again . Lesson learned .

[JC]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Manual all the way.
I actually like the deceleration characteristics of being able to go down through the gears for corners, roundabouts and braking ect.
Brake pads and rotors last heaps longer and you get less brake dust to clean off the wheels.

You can do the same in many autos in manual mode. The ZF 6 speed is one such box. I prefer auto

[JC]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

It's a basic box the BTR 4 speeder but is better in manual mode than a ZF imo. The former ok the latter horribly annoying.

I don’t know how you were using your ZF in manual mode, but I’d guess at “incorrectly”. The ZF holds gears until you change, unless you come to a stop, where they will change to 1 as you go under 20kmh. If you then forget to change gear on take off, it will bounce off the limit, just like a manual, and does it in every gear.

There is also a function for emergency kickdown, so if you’re in manual mode and in say 5th and you for some reason forget and need to get down gears fast, you punch the throttle to the floor and it will then change down, and guess what, it will hold the new gear until you change.

There are protections built into the box to stop you making stupid downshifts (like 1st at 100), but if you give it the command to do so, the box will wait for the car speed to drop sufficiently to select 1st. That is not an error - it protects the box, the engine, and stops the car swapping ends unexpectedly. Of course if that was your goal, then you may think it’s stupid, but then I’d say that sort of driving is stupid.

If your ZF didn’t do these things, then there was a problem with your ZF, but not all ZFs, so your comparison is flawed IMO.

[JasonACT]

I'm pretty sure if you're in 6th gear and go below 70, it shifts down to 5th (and stays there)… At that point if it didn't, you'd be at around 1000rpm which is too much strain for the engine anyway, and is why it's done. And it does this at various lower speeds through the gears down to 2nd gear - but never goes into 1st by itself. At least that's on my FGII.

[burnz]

i'll stick with the manual, peak hour traffic actually moves very well here..

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

yet so many haters.

On my 3rd BA all have been autos and never once a problem,flick it over to P mode and works fine for me,when i started looking for the P heard many times how i should be looking at a BF if going auto but never having had a problem with the BTR it wasnt a big deal for me.

[arronm]

ZF is 1000 times better than BTR.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

..I suppose most of that was due to I didn't have the car all that long and had a fair few drivetrain issues , coil pack issues , sat nav /radio etc and tyre wear . I bought the BA Fairmont Ghia (2003) cheap in late 2014 and traded it on the XR6 in March 2016. Never really got to really enjoy the car . Manual mode was fine to use but just never bothered with it much on the back of the other issues . Car was nice looker though..Engine was great too other than coil packs failing . No doubt an electric issue not engine itself.

Worst part was despite a fair bit of time and cash we could never get the tailshaft /centre bearing warble to go out completely .Diff was fine though strangely . Tailshaft was sent away for balancing and all . Couldn't get the radio to work properly , CD stacker was jammed and the car yard was supposed to fix that but never did and the factory sat nav had apparently been tampered with.

Fifteen months ownership was enough . She was less than 200K clicks too. Won't ever buy a car again , no matter how cheap without a proper look over and decent test drive . Never again . Lesson learned .

Don't ever mention coil packs again.

Final warning Roddy......

I gave up on the centre bearing too let alone the door actuators.