Vfacts January 2020

[Brazen]

Endura is fantastic. Would be seriously tempted if it came in petrol, some great deals on ST Line undriven demos in yards.

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Endura is fantastic. Would be seriously tempted if it came in petrol, some great deals on ST Line undriven demos in yards.

2011 - current Explorer is perfect, it more than fills the space Territory left in the line up. The only thing wrong with it is there’s no split tailgate feature, but everything else about the car is spot on. But alas, MoFoCo have no plans to make it RHD and no aftermarket company is remotely interested in doing an RHD kit or compliancing for Australia. Would love to get a secondhand Explorer PPV ($6k usd they go for) and graft the body onto a local territory floorpan and register it as a Territory

[Syndrome]

January 2020 is the lowest January figure since what year? I can't find any numbers before 2011.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The circumstance being that Ford's SUVs are just so difficult to sell,
be that price, style or buyers just preferring Prado and other three row SUVs.

It's just way more expensive than Kluger or even Acadia which are both three row.

IMO, Ford's plate clearance prices are more in line with where regular prices should be,
the moment buyers see those vehicles that are $6K-$8K dearer than other vehicles,
they're off the list no matter how good they may be. This is where zero km demos come in....

When you bring new product to market, setting a price point is driven by a lot of things, and where it ranks on vfacts data is likely not near the top of the list. They don't care how many people discuss it on a forum.

Also, once they set a price, it can only go one direction, and it's very rarely up. No doubt they'll see how it goes for a while and then gauge whether or not it is meeting internal targets and if not, whether to value add or drop the price.

They would have a minimum price they need to sell for to make it worth their while putting them on the boat. If they can't sell them for that figure, Australia just misses out. They won't give them away.

We are little island with very little demand for product in the big scheme of things.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Endura is fantastic. Would be seriously tempted if it came in petrol, some great deals on ST Line undriven demos in yards.

I find the inside a little old. I can’t think of a correct way to describe it, but I look at the outside and think I’d love to have one but then I see the dash and it just doesn’t match, to me it belongs back in 2010. I place a big emphasis on interiors considering that’s where I’ll spend all my time.

Today I noticed Endura is also the name of our hand towel dispensers at work.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by FTE217

re Everest, what are the current circumstances ? economic ?
I'm just thinking on this sector - mid size SUV's if you call them that.
I sure wouldn't think 490 Everests is anything to crow about, sure some will say its the profit, combined with Endura @ 129 the Ford SUV figure is 619.
For such a huge catergry where Prado/Santefe etcetcetc are in can anyone get the the other mid size SUV figures for interests sake ?

For the record Endura is a far rippa looking product on the road compared to Everest but thats my opinion.

BIL just picked up a Everest in the last few weeks, was a "demo" as he said, with about 500 ks on the clock, funny thing was he said there was a number of "demo" in different colours available, main thing was he saved a fair bit of $$ compared to a new o ks model

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by prydey

When you bring new product to market, setting a price point is driven by a lot of things, and where it ranks on vfacts data is likely not near the top of the list. They don't care how many people discuss it on a forum.

Also, once they set a price, it can only go one direction, and it's very rarely up. No doubt they'll see how it goes for a while and then gauge whether or not it is meeting internal targets and if not, whether to value add or drop the price.

They would have a minimum price they need to sell for to make it worth their while putting them on the boat. If they can't sell them for that figure, Australia just misses out. They won't give them away.

We are little island with very little demand for product in the big scheme of things.

Thanks jpd80 answering my post.
prydey, yer we know about setting a price.
Better up than start low But Everest was a new player in a very strong segment.
Forgetting prado love to know the numbers of the other main sellers.
Everest has been here Long enough in market, I find its numbers not much to boast about.
Sure they may be banking some profit, I bloody well hope so but you need turn over in your dealers, one sale leads to another % wise.
Manymany companies have other sources lurking forums etc daily believe me.
I was just somewhere in dealer land the other day and the head salesmen was advised of a problem online - they were informed to nip it on the bud pronto, with offer to repair at N//C.
Rangers combined are over 2500 units in a low month, how many of those buyers consider Everest/Endura for the wife ? but she ends up in a Toy/Mazda/Kia/Hyundai.
Its priced too high.
Endura imo is one of their better SUV's in a long time, (pity no petrol) < this could be part of its drawback should be pumping out.
We sure are little but every business needs to keep turning over, soem do it much better than others.

[naddis01]

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/vfa...p-selling-4x4s

Everest was the 3rd best selling 4x4 wagon in January according to the link. Behind all the 4x4 utes obviously.

[Sprintey]

Economic cycles go down as well as up even though ours has gone up for 30 years now. China shuttering factories, Hyundai has shut theirs too. We are about to see how much resilience is built into the global JIT form of industry. So many macro indicators have been slowing globally (including the repo madness), the CV is the coup de grace. 50 to 100Mn people quarantined, that's something unprecedented. Less car sales when all are imported = less funds going offshore. Less coal demand = less income, less tourism = less income. More time for veggie garden and to smell the roses or fire up the old 302.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by FTE217

re Everest, what are the current circumstances ? economic ?
I'm just thinking on this sector - mid size SUV's if you call them that.
I sure wouldn't think 490 Everests is anything to crow about, sure some will say its the profit, combined with Endura @ 129 the Ford SUV figure is 619.
For such a huge catergry where Prado/Santefe etcetcetc are in can anyone get the the other mid size SUV figures for interests sake ?

For the record Endura is a far rippa looking product on the road compared to Everest but thats my opinion.

Build rates for Everest are apparently low numbers. So spreading over the Asian markets I wouldn't expect much than what your seeing.

[Hemihunter]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

It is the bushfires fault. The corona virus fault. Global warming's fault. Nancy Pelosi's fault.

What Wait , you didnt blame Trump ???

[anobserver]

Originally Posted by Hemihunter

What Wait , you didnt blame Trump ???

Philip Lowe has my vote.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Build rates for Everest are apparently low numbers. So spreading over the Asian markets I wouldn't expect much than what your seeing.

You can bet that Everest has missed a lot of internal marks inside Ford
it was benchmarked against the Prado but looks too much like a Ranger S/W
hence Toyota's eagerness to add Hilux based Fortuner to Prado as a point of
differentiation.....

IMO, this why 490 sales of Everest in any month is a major accomplishment for Ford,
a Ranger nose on an Everest is unbecoming especially when the starting price is up
near $50K, people look at Everest and just go buy a crew cab Ranger, it it doesn't even
get to a comparison with other SUVs.

Sorry if that's seen as an insult to Everest owners but I think you all deserve something
that's styled better than just a Ranger S/W and clearly, so does the market here and abroad.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Economic cycles go down as well as up even though ours has gone up for 30 years now. China shuttering factories, Hyundai has shut theirs too. We are about to see how much resilience is built into the global JIT form of industry. So many macro indicators have been slowing globally (including the repo madness), the CV is the coup de grace. 50 to 100Mn people quarantined, that's something unprecedented. Less car sales when all are imported = less funds going offshore. Less coal demand = less income, less tourism = less income. More time for veggie garden and to smell the roses or fire up the old 302.

While we've never been in recession for 30 years, recovery since the global financial recession
has been much slower than America, our All Ordinaries index is only just getting back to pre-GFC
levels while the US Dow Jones index is now double it's pre-GFC level. So this is why our politicians
bragging about such a long run of growth are not telling us whole truth, just a version that suits their
economic policy and not necessarily for the good of the broader market. We have missed out on a
lot of growth that has happened elsewhere since the GFC and now we're basically stagnant.

[Poetic Justice]

The new FCAI policy means they only acknowledge registered vehicles as being sales. If a dealer registers demonstrators either out of need or for target achievement, then those vehicles will count (so long as they were registered.)

Despite the comments about Toyota, they have probably been the best at reporting figures over time - dating back to when I worked at a Toyota dealer 06-14, you always had to ensure vehicles were registered by the last day of the month (probably from about 09-10 onwards.) - this is aligned with new FCAI policies.

As far as seeing demos being sold in used car yards, this makes a whole lot of sense once it was mentioned it was an Eagers/AHG type of dealership - I imagine this would be common practice in the bigger dealer groups.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

2011 - current Explorer is perfect, it more than fills the space Territory left in the line up. The only thing wrong with it is there’s no split tailgate feature, but everything else about the car is spot on. But alas, MoFoCo have no plans to make it RHD and no aftermarket company is remotely interested in doing an RHD kit or compliancing for Australia. Would love to get a secondhand Explorer PPV ($6k usd they go for) and graft the body onto a local territory floorpan and register it as a Territory

How many inches would you cut out of the Explorer body to fit the Territory chassis? The Explorer positively dwarfs it. I've seen them both side by side and Explorer is Landcruiser size.

Or extend the Territory chassis?

[Sprintey]

ETD 'Explorer Type Design'

They have done it before with the Lincoln Type Design

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While we've never been in recession for 30 years, recovery since the global financial recession
has been much slower than America, our All Ordinaries index is only just getting back to pre-GFC
levels while the US Dow Jones index is now double it's pre-GFC level. So this is why our politicians
bragging about such a long run of growth are not telling us whole truth, just a version that suits their
economic policy and not necessarily for the good of the broader market. We have missed out on a
lot of growth that has happened elsewhere since the GFC and now we're basically stagnant.

All true, from what I can gather we've used the exchange rate and policy changes to weather the storm, never went through the GFC others did. The growth around these parts has been spectacular though, floated upon 125,000 worth of new housing.

The higher exchange rate didn't help our manufacturers when China stimulated post-GFC, now it has adjusted lower somewhat I'd figure they would be more competitive.

All this was done without firing the QE type programs that other countries did (possible exception the Rudd Dollars for Xmas, 2008 I think). We have yet to print out of thin air to "fix things". And in that printing lies the meteoric rise of the Dow - you can neatly correlate it or the SP500 to the size of the Fed's balance sheet.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

All true, from what I can gather we've used the exchange rate and policy changes to weather the storm, never went through the GFC others did. The growth around these parts has been spectacular though, floated upon 125,000 worth of new housing.

The higher exchange rate didn't help our manufacturers when China stimulated post-GFC, now it has adjusted lower somewhat I'd figure they would be more competitive.

All this was done without firing the QE type programs that other countries did (possible exception the Rudd Dollars for Xmas, 2008 I think). We have yet to print out of thin air to "fix things". And in that printing lies the meteoric rise of the Dow - you can neatly correlate it or the SP500 to the size of the Fed's balance sheet.

The two national debts have increased since 2011
USA $14.3 Trillion to $23.16 Trillion…....…61.9% increase
Australia $250 Billion to $551 Billion,........100% increase

[Franco Cozzo]

Somewhat related, I had a new Focus ST Line loan car today with the 1.5L 3 cylinder turbo engine, 2600km on the clock.

It did have an impressive reverse camera though, it's punchy enough with a good amount of torque down low and the leather wrapped steering wheel was impressive, it felt nice in my hands, seats were nice looking but not that nice to sit in.

NVH issues with the triple at idle, could feel vibration through the footwell through my boots, could have just been that particular car though.

Doors feel light weight and close with a slap rather than a convincing thud.

Has that stop start crapola, I turned it off after the first time.

It's OK but it's still a Focus, a bit noisy, it doesn't have a gear shift lever, rather a knob you twist that felt a bit cheap and nasty in it's action.

For a commuter it's OK and the new styling is on point but I think it's overpriced for what you pay for it.

They've got no 'entry level' product now and the Focus is lipstick on a pig at those prices, if it was $30K top then it would be better, it seems it's $29K minus all the extra crapola fees.

I'd probably look for something else as a daily.

[Sprintey]

Franco are you seeing any supply chain disruption?

https://www.reddit.com/r/supplychain..._situation_if/

[jpd80]

If the coronavirus mutates, will it become camryvirus?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Franco are you seeing any supply chain disruption?

https://www.reddit.com/r/supplychain..._situation_if/

At the moment no, all our stock is done by sea freight so everything pre Corona virus drama is on a ship slowly making its way to us.

We probably won't see issues until a few months down the track when orders we've placed in the last few weeks now aren't fulfilled or delayed because of Corona virus backlog.

Some of my customers are very nervous though about supply chain disruptions from bush fires and now Corona virus stopping their production lines.

It'll probably effect our imports but our manufactured goods production line for our products we make in Melbourne uses a mix of components sourced from Japan and locally manufactured in house, we've also got three CNC machines we can make components on worst case scenario.

If we were further advanced in off shoring manufacturing we'd probably be up **** Creek right about now.

We don't have our **** together so JIT doesn't exist for us

[csv8]

Franco Cozzo .You cannt say that. I did and continually got shot down. So, I have stopped commenting on Ford cars. BUT
A Focus Active is $38k on road. Its up against CX5, Tucson, Sportage, Seltus etc etc They all are 1.6 or 2l 4 cylinder engines. Focus has a motorcycle engine.
It might be okay but longevity etc compared to a 4 cylinder engine??
Okay guys, shoot me down, again.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by csv8

Franco Cozzo .You cannt say that. I did and continually got shot down. So, I have stopped commenting on Ford cars.

Insert clip of Greta 'how dare you'

I've got an LV Focus as my daily that I bought new, you can tell the new SA Focus is a next generation car in terms of refinement compared to my old banger, it reminds me of VE and VF Commodore but it's not as impressive, that was a huge change in quality of switchgear and interior refinement.

Steering feel through the wheel was on point though and that's typically a strong point of cars designed by Ford Europe from my experience, all the little cars like the Fiesta and Focus are on point with steering accuracy and feel, you move the wheel the slightest amount and the car moves, the most minor adjustments and the car is changing direction and you're getting feedback of what the fronts are doing.

I've got a bit of experience with Mazda 6 and Mazda is more interested in isolating you from steering feel, you might as well as be driving the car with a PSX controller prior to the dualshock vibration functionality being introduced because you can't feel anything, it's like holding onto a plastic pizza with thick crusts.

The dash has soft touch materials, I spent a bit of time touching and feeling things while driving about inner Melbourne

As you get below the dash they're back to cheap and nasty, the good stuff is only the steering wheel which is leather wrapped and feels majestic, the dash which is mid way between quality and nasty soft touch, the centre console is hard plastics and feels cheap.

The window switches feel cheap and clicky rather than nicely weighted in their action, it doesn't inspire confidence.

Has electric park brake, you can see the knob shifter thing in all its glory in below photo:



I had a bit of a fiddle with Sync 3 briefly, originally I wasn't sold on the tablet stuck to the dash look in marketing photos but in person I like it, it's functional and the display appears high resolution, the DAB radio functionality is clunky and slow to respond, it's divided into multiple 'bands' with 'clusters' of stations in each band, the factory settings on the audio are also crapola, there's no bass to it but I was right on the dealership before getting a chance to adjust and evaluate further.

The SA Focus is OK, but there's nothing that really stands out and puts it on my radar as worth buying.

If you had $30K in the bank and looking for a new daily I'd probably look at all your options first rather than just walking into a Ford dealership and making it rain, I feel that 10 years ago Ford was more relevant than in 2020.

If the prices were lower, than the SA Focus would be a good buy but I'd suggest people check out the competition and I'd be heavily considering the options that our South Korean friends are offering.

Having a WZ Fiesta ST in the family I'd be more inclined to buy the 2020 Fiesta ST without having laid eyes on it over the SA Focus as you're getting the same engine with more balls in a higher spec car albeit smaller, I cross shop on price rather than class of car.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by csv8

Franco Cozzo .You cannt say that. I did and continually got shot down. So, I have stopped commenting on Ford cars. BUT
A Focus Active is $38k on road. Its up against CX5, Tucson, Sportage, Seltus etc etc They all are 1.6 or 2l 4 cylinder engines. Focus has a motorcycle engine.
It might be okay but longevity etc compared to a 4 cylinder engine??
Okay guys, shoot me down, again.

Pretty much all the Euros are migrating to 3 cylinder engines for small cars now. Get used to it.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

At the moment no, all our stock is done by sea freight so everything pre Corona virus drama is on a ship slowly making its way to us.

We probably won't see issues until a few months down the track when orders we've placed in the last few weeks now aren't fulfilled or delayed because of Corona virus backlog.

Some of my customers are very nervous though about supply chain disruptions from bush fires and now Corona virus stopping their production lines.

It'll probably effect our imports but our manufactured goods production line for our products we make in Melbourne uses a mix of components sourced from Japan and locally manufactured in house, we've also got three CNC machines we can make components on worst case scenario.

If we were further advanced in off shoring manufacturing we'd probably be up **** Creek right about now.

We don't have our **** together so JIT doesn't exist for us

Not a bad way to be setup at all. I CAD designed 3d printed component parts for a machine I built, I can whip replacements up faster than the Ms cooks a chocolate cake. Sometimes not having your **** at the cutting edge means you survive the unexpected.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by csv8

Franco Cozzo .You cannt say that. I did and continually got shot down. So, I have stopped commenting on Ford cars. BUT
A Focus Active is $38k on road. Its up against CX5, Tucson, Sportage, Seltus etc etc They all are 1.6 or 2l 4 cylinder engines. Focus has a motorcycle engine.
It might be okay but longevity etc compared to a 4 cylinder engine??
Okay guys, shoot me down, again.

At 38K that's a base model RWD Territory! And cars were supposed to get cheaper when we no longer had an industry because of something something...

[Sprintey]

The Koreans are looking pretty good in the Focus/Corolla size passenger car and you might save near 10K and get 7y of warranty. Like you Franco, I'd probably go a size smaller for the small commuter, and go for the new Yaris (maybe the GR version haha). Even have a soft spot for the old Yaris as it's spacious and has more glasshouse than the new or superceded Corolla - for the size. And I know those mechanicals in old Yaris will work and work for ever. Plus, I must be one of the 12 Australians outside bowls club membership who likes the chromed, tall auto shifter in the current, older Yaris - reminds me of the XW-XY chrome TBars and the HJ61/FJ62 tall, chrome auto shifters. Do I still get a green digital clock with it?

[Franco Cozzo]

The turbo 3 cylinder engines aren't a bad thing, I wish naturally aspirated 4 and 6 cylinder engines would go the way of the dodo for forced induction replacements.

Any naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engine should be off the list for a commuter car this day and age, the fact they're still being used is ridiculous - I like the new Corolla but black mark for NA I4.

Nothing beats that torque hit right where you want it with a force fed car.

It's good for those of us who want to have a bit of a play too, this Focus I'm sure if you do a turbo back exhaust, intake, intercooler and a tune she'll liven up a bit.

She's got a torque converter auto with 8 speeds too, perfect for boost.