Australia Will Suffer Without Auto Manufacturing- Alan Mulallay

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by EF_6

?......

..........if something is not done soon about pump prices.

Where are all these people going to find new jobs after being in one industry for years and years???

so long as (if) petrol keeps tracking higher at the same rate the savings just get bigger which will sustain consumption levels......otherwise it all goes down hill badly.

[ryeman]

We should perhaps look at a CKD version of exportable housing like the Germans do.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by Bill M

The British motor manufacturing industry is doing reasonably well so scotch those misleading impressions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automot...United_Kingdom

Mulally is right, after all he is a mover and shaker in that very industry, a far cry from the armchair commentators that proliferate cyberworld.

Tara might fund JLR but the products, as a result of financial liquidity, are brilliant British products......R&D, design, testing, proving and manufacture......
Yeah, I know NOT YET Toyota reliability for LR.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

I have reread the article a few times, and not once in it does it quote mulally saying what the thread title says "Australia will suffer without auto manufacturing". AUTO manufacturing is only a small part of manufacturing in Australia, and is an even smaller section of the total economy.

Better read it again...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Better read it again...

Bob is right here & I thought the say thing after reading it myself!!

[ryeman]

The bottom line is, he thinks its a bad trend to abandon such an important sector of manufacturing.
I would have thought there were negative defence 'consumables' supply implications for one.
What we DONT have is ANY manufacturing policy.......seemingly laissez faire applies.

[SumoDog68]

I ve read an interview with Kim Carr who does seem to know what was (is) going on in car industry in Australia. He said that Ford made a decision not to invest in Australia any longer and no matter what government support was offered it was decided to cease local manufacturing .
Holden was apparently a bit different - GM wanted to manufacture in Australia but wanted more support which did not eventuate .

[ryeman]

I think Industry Ministers from both sides are gutted with the win by the 'economic rationalists' experiment with unknown consequences.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

I ve read an interview with Kim Carr who does seem to know what was (is) going on in car industry in Australia. He said that Ford made a decision not to invest in Australia any longer and no matter what government support was offered it was decided to cease local manufacturing .
Holden was apparently a bit different - GM wanted to manufacture in Australia but wanted more support which did not eventuate .

I won't believe what any of them say!!! Especially a minister that is in opposite & his government is trying to win back public support!!

[Dodge]

look at detroit now its a poo hole nothing exciting there, the auto market left so did the town. melb and sa will be the same , a big lot of space they can use for cheap housing for the jobless people who once had job that kept them in the cash flow for australians

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Dodge

look at detroit now its a poo hole nothing exciting there, the auto market left so did the town. melb and sa will be the same , a big lot of space they can use for cheap housing for the jobless people who once had job that kept them in the cash flow for australians

Yep this is what worries me....Broadmeadows and woteva suburb it is for Holden in S.A will become mini Detroits....Oh and Geelong too!

I don't think ANYONE really knows until the closures actually happen.

What I do know is the job market is VERY competitive and I just don't know where all these factory workers are going to go....And wages are being driven down not up.....I am preparing NOW for 2016/17.

Plus we have the LPG industry looking like its going to fold because of high pump prices.....I am WORRIED!

[LTDmonger]

Originally Posted by Boss_340

Watch this Australia Day the un Australians with there Aussie flags on there cheap imported cars, so sad.

What is sadder is if you show patriotism you get labeled a bogan/thug and the like.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I won't believe what any of them say!!! Especially a minister that is in opposite & his government is trying to win back public support!!

Joe,
I understand your cynicism but Kim Carr was committed to ensuring Australia retained a strong manufacturing base during his tenure as Minister of Science and Industry. Part of the deal to support Ford Aus in 2010 was to build Focus here. Ford chose to build Eco boost Falcon instead which in my opinion deserved to succeed. I also have respect for the current minister Ian Macfarlane who also has an understanding of the importance of the Auto manufacturing industry underpinning many other High Tech sectors.

Bill.

[mik]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

I ve read an interview with Kim Carr who does seem to know what was (is) going on in car industry in Australia. He said that Ford made a decision not to invest in Australia any longer and no matter what government support was offered it was decided to cease local manufacturing .
Holden was apparently a bit different - GM wanted to manufacture in Australia but wanted more support which did not eventuate .

A gm spokeman on the box said yesterday it was nothing to do with support from govco, it was the plan to pull holden regardless of mr devreux's (spelling) best efforts to keep holden here iirc.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by mik

I'll go the other way on the flag waving , I don't think we do enough of it, these days with the multi cultural thing happening you see it mentioned in the media on occasion some ethnic groups seem offended by it(tuff bickies to them).

Getting back to the unaustralian bit for buying a foreign car over an aussie car,
im firm in my belief that decades ago there where more true blue aussies and many of them would have almost had a fit at not supporting australia and buying aussie stuff ............including cars .

Maybe im wrong but I like the idea of putting yourself out for your country a little bit even if many like myself cant actively do it a lot of the time because of lack of funds,
but im a realist we are a different country today, attitudes are different, we are more materialistic and more about looking after number one, me included I suppose.

Im sure there are many families here on the forum where the parents spoiled the kids and then the kids of their kids because they did not want them to go through the hardships the oldies went through in the old days.
Of this I have no doubt we have become a country a little bit soft and selfish up to a point, and in my view we might pay or are paying a price already for not being as selfless as our parents and grand parents where.
At the very least our politicians should be pushing buy australian ........... instead of the deathly silence........... screw the fta.
I might add I totally agree with Mr Mullalay.

People are still patriotic but they just don't show it on their sleeves like many did back in the day.
I am all for buying Australian made but I am not going to go out of my way and pay a premium for something that has no tangible benefits. For example when i was looking at a bedroom suite a couple of years back I was looking for Australian made. I was prepared to pay a little more but the price difference was near double for something identical. I'm sorry but I couldn't see any benefit. I don't have unlimited funds and it is the same with cars.
Ford, Holden and Toyota do not have anything in their local range that would suit my needs or I am remotely interested in. I put myself out a couple of years back to support the local product and I won't do it again unless there is a need in my purchase to do so.

Many and myself included buy a car for a specific purpose and sometimes we shell out a little more for something better if we can. I chose the Focus because a large car was wasteful in all areas and I chose the XR5 because nothing else in the Ford range interested me. Was I looking after myself? Sure was, I work long hours each day and my reward was to buy the Focus. Some here can throw around $$ for a car and not think twice but for me a car is a big investment and I want to make sure I get the best within budget and I enjoy driving. I am sure there are others like this too.
Now if I am un Australian for doing this then so be it. I don't support multi billion dollar organisations that have a primary purpose to deliver a product and that product isn't competitive enough with others in the market.
Put simply the locals have come a long way but are still so far behind and are now feeling the consequence of their mediocrity.

Originally Posted by DJM83

So im not oztrayn despite being born here and lived here all my life. Because I own an imported Ford that was hardly cheap.
Kool theory

eh, don't bother, too many of these people have their head stuck in the 70's and cannot get with the times.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Joe,
I understand your cynicism but Kim Carr was committed to ensuring Australia retained a strong manufacturing base during his tenure as Minister of Science and Industry. Part of the deal to support Ford Aus in 2010 was to build Focus here. Ford chose to build Eco boost Falcon instead which in my opinion deserved to succeed. I also have respect for the current minister Ian Macfarlane who also has an understanding of the importance of the Auto manufacturing industry underpinning many other High Tech sectors.

Bill.

Unfortunately Kim and Ian can only cast one vote ea, the majority of both parties have no idea.

Plenty of literature out there about the importance of having an auto industry you only have to look at how hard other governments fight to keep their industries to realise you are better with than with out.

Sadly its not just the automotive industry, the larger manufacturing industry that has been contracting for some time now. However I personally hope I am proven wrong on this one, but it wont end there. We are all used to receiving emails offering software development, web hosting, SEO services etc for $5 dollars an hour. I recently received an email offering book keeping, accountancy services (including BAS etc) all compliant with Australian legislation up to current standards for $7 AUD an hour. The world will become a more competitive place

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by ryeman

The bottom line is, he thinks its a bad trend to abandon such an important sector of manufacturing.
I would have thought there were negative defence 'consumables' supply implications for one.
What we DONT have is ANY manufacturing policy.......seemingly laissez faire applies.

Right on the button! The defense industry suppliers network is a part of this.
http://www.aidn.org.au/
It is not just about jobs or job security, there are strategic implications that come with a decimated manufacturing industry as well.
Both sides of the political divide are aware of this and there should be bipartisan support instead of cheap point scoring.
Bill.

[Flat Top]

Nissaninvested heavily in the Uk as a base for its eu manufacturing. It has been innovative and achieves reasonable economics and good quality scores through constant improvements. It also gets a lot of government assistance and set up in an industrial wastland in the north of england. it has done so by consistant investment when others such as Ford / GM/ leyland all crapped out in the UK manufacturing wise as far as I can see.
The rebirthed jaguar/rangerover/aston/ all produce premium vehicles in smaller volumes and are investing in New models so it can be done if you dont have a massive "legacy" overhead .It has done so it appears without the unionised headshrinking , as the unions lost "ownership" when they tried to force deals that were not sustainable.
There are NO union offices inside factories in Sunderland!!

Electric vehicle technology ,modularised manufacturing. lean manufacturing, for smaller volumes is the Go in my opinion.
Holden should subcontract out the building of short run models to a Contract vehicle builder and let them use the barnd name which is Australian morally.
Austria does it with Magna !!

trev

[ryeman]

Henry Ford was one of the US's most appalling exploitative, racist industrialists who alone justified subsequent industrial confrontation.
Japanese manufacturers setting up in the US have consistently demonstrated respect for their 'associates' as opposed to exploiting worker weaknesses, which has been the history of Anglo Saxon nations going back to the landed gentry and THEIR serfs.
Post Hawke consensus , we have had comparatively little disruption, except when it has been used (by both sides) as a bargaining tool....lockouts, strikes etc.

On both sides of politics here, Industry Ministers have never played politics with those employed in manufacturing.

Unfortunately so called 'leaders' have not shown the same respect when playing to THEIR audience.

Laissez faire politics basically means you don't have to HAVE a policy.......the market sets it.......nice money for 'lazy' politics IMO.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Right on the button! The defense industry suppliers network is a part of this.
http://www.aidn.org.au/
It is not just about jobs or job security, there are strategic implications that come with a decimated manufacturing industry as well.
Both sides of the political divide are aware of this and there should be bipartisan support instead of cheap point scoring.
Bill.

Well...I guess yes, in terms of high-level knowledge and expertise that comes from designing, engineering and making things here. But some think you can simply flick a switch and Broadmeadows can start churning out Abrams tanks, that can't and won't happen.

[Franco Cozzo]

Last time I checked I work for a "second stage" auto manufacturer, we aren't all gone.

We are legally classed as a manufacturer.

Same with my competitors - Mader International, SEM Fire and Rescue, Bell Environmental etc.

Not mass production but there is development etc happening all the time.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Well...I guess yes, in terms of high-level knowledge and expertise that comes from designing, engineering and making things here. But some think you can simply flick a switch and Broadmeadows can start churning out Abrams tanks, that can't and won't happen.

Churning out tanks, maybe not but consumables ie tank tracks, gun barrels etc etc, not to mention RAN and RAAF.
US manufacturers would be over the moon if only they could provide the necessary support.

CADCAM, 3D printing industries etc need a skilled workforce which take years of 'investment' in increasingly hi tech trade education.

It seems almost reckless to not have a manufacturing policy that addresses these important issues.

Manufacturing industry is THE major employer outside of the pen-pushing ones, as opposed to mining and agriculture which are increasingly capital intensive.

We're not all born to sit behind a desk and housing won't take up the slack unless we develop 'flat pack' exportable housing like the Germans and Swedes do.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Boss_340

Watch this Australia Day the un Australians with there Aussie flags on there cheap imported cars, so sad.

Yea mate just like you wearing Un Australian clothing, using Un Australian consumables & gods knows what else.

Get off your pedestal before you fall off.

[ryeman]

For history buffs, check out the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation , manufacturers of OUR superior versions of the P51 Mustang and F86 Sabre (substantially redesigne by us) which were manufactured at Fishermans Bend.
(I was one of the last to land there but long after aircraft production had ceased)

How many first think of OUR history when Fishermans Bend is mentioned?.

You don't do that without trade skills!

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Well...I guess yes, in terms of high-level knowledge and expertise that comes from designing, engineering and making things here. But some think you can simply flick a switch and Broadmeadows can start churning out Abrams tanks, that can't and won't happen.

I worked for a CNC equipped Engineering co. who does Automotive, Aerospace and defense producing components small and high value so I know from the inside.
The car industry has switched to defense in a very short time-frame before and could do it again.The transfer of professional skills both tertiary and trade certificate are well known to those who work in these fields.

Manufacturing Abrams tanks? Maybe not but they have a multitude of consumable components that have to be made somewhere.
Hopefully here keeping the country self reliant up to a point and embracing globalisation for products (read cheap consumer goods) that are more suitable for low cost regions to produce.
Bill.

[Road_Warrior]

FYI the CAC "Mustang" if you want to call it that wasn't our "version" of the P51, it was a home grown design that closely resembled the P51. So the point we can develop our own things like that is even moreso.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by ryeman

It seems almost reckless to not have a manufacturing policy that addresses these important issues.

At the end of the day, no amount of policy will correct for uncompetitive pricing where manufacturing is concerned. The trend in the western world is for increasing regulation and bureaucracy, and that only increases the cost burden.

For me specifically, we're now getting audited for compliance by the government at unacceptable intervals. Its approaching the break-even point where the cost of compliance is approaching the profit that part of our business generates. Its going to make more sense to say goodbye to 20% of our revenue that this area makes up, and let go of 20% of our workers that we'll no longer need.

Manufacturing industry is THE major employer outside of the pen-pushing ones, as opposed to mining and agriculture which are increasingly capital intensive.

But even manufacturing adopts automation wherever possible, and automation advances always aim to reduce the man hours to turn out a product.

Why would I pay someone $50k to work on a line when I can pay $50k for a machine that replaces them and pays for itself in the same amount of time? The machine isn't going to whinge that his (harder-working) co-worker gets paid more, he isn't going to make dubious workers comp claims, I'm not going to have to implement largely pointless safety measures for the machine, etc.

[ryeman]

Just to clarify, I'm not referring to maintaining 'process worker' positions but skilled trades people who 'man' those tools.
Robots give productivity but don't install, programme and supervise their parameters...that takes skilled tradesmen which leads to the much trumpeted 'productivity' improvement.
Some think productivity comes from kicking workers in the a... more often, perpetualising industrial antagonism and conflict, resulting in a win for Japan.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

FYI the CAC "Mustang" if you want to call it that wasn't our "version" of the P51, it was a home grown design that closely resembled the P51. So the point we can develop our own things like that is even moreso.

Aussie Mustangs - CAC 17 & 18 are Australian produced P-51 Mustangs.
The one off prototype CAC 15 is a different horse altogether although generally the non enthusiast will call it a "Mustang"
none the less it was designed and built here.

Wikipedia has a short summary...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_CA-15

CAC also built the 4 engined Lincoln Bomber (Lancaster replacement)
Super Sabre. We also built Rolls Royce merlins here as well...
http://www.beaufortrestoration.com.a...ginePlant.html

[Road_Warrior]

I thought he was referring to the CA-15, not licence built Mustangs.