ED XR6 vs ED XR8

[wulos]

From the factory sheets, for stock standard engines..
1528kg / 161 kw = 9.49kg per kw.
1573kg / 165 kw = 9.53kg per kw.
Without adding any potential benefits on the XR6 provided by extractors / exhaust(OP does mention that the XR6 has exhaust mods) the XR6 already has a better power to weight ratio(at 4500rpm) then the XR8, even if the gearing was identical.
The fastburn heads in the Tickford XR6 heads respond well to exhaust mods. Unless the exhaust / extractor combo fitted is a complete abortion I am confident that the XR8 would need a bit more than merely levelling the gears.
Personal experience with both of these vehicles in confirmation enough for me.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

But the question OP asked is what is required to walk away from ed xr6. 3.45 diff gears will do the trick, 3.7s and 3.9s make a mockery of the xr6 ed

To what speed? What you gain over one interval, you lose over another.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=121351

Three different ratios simulated, the tallest ratio is quickest to 40pmh and 100mph. Over a longer run, they all even out.

Diff ratios are a game of swings and roundabouts - you never get a free lunch.

Of course, if you want to be the quickest from one set of lights to the next, by all means ... but in gear, on freeway for example, probably a different story.

[RAPID_BA]

There is a such thing as a free lunch.

Where exactly is the 185kw au xr8 slower than any e series xr8 (excluding sprint which has 3.45 gears)

For $400 you can get au xr8 equal performance in your e series xr8 (and walk away from an ed xr6)

[riogt]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

There is a such thing as a free lunch.

Where exactly is the 185kw au xr8 slower than any e series xr8 (excluding sprint which has 3.45 gears)

For $400 you can get au xr8 equal performance in your e series xr8 (and walk away from an ed xr6)

Auto Sprints got 3.45s and the Manual got 3.27.

[STINKY NINJA]

I have an eb v8 auto with 3.9 gears, rebuilt motor, ported gt40p heads,220 cam and explorer,1.72 roller rockers.ran a 14.5 quarter but i still think an xr6 of the same era with the same mods will smoke it.what can i say???
My car feels hell fast for a basically stock v8 but i know a mild xr6 may just eat me for dinner

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

There is a such thing as a free lunch.

Where exactly is the 185kw au xr8 slower than any e series xr8 (excluding sprint which has 3.45 gears)

For $400 you can get au xr8 equal performance in your e series xr8 (and walk away from an ed xr6)

I'd rather a 185Kw EL XR...or Ed Sprint, faster and prettier.

[Brent]

For what its worth, just prior to me purchasing my ED XR6 auto, I took an ED XR8 auto for a good long test drive. Was OK, but I was a bit underwhelmed. The old 5 litre Windsor was silky smooth but just seemed to have no top end. It just felt a bit asthmatic, but I don't think I've exactly unearthed a revelation here.

Jumped into an ED XR6 a week afterwards. 2 hours later I'd bought it. I don't care what the stats say, but the 6 felt livlier, more willing through the rev range, albeit a bit rougher whilst doing it. And the nose definitely felt lighter. Both cars totally stock.

Brings back fond memories actually. That XR6 was a weapon in its day.

[BlackEDXR61993]

The ED/EB XR6 did have a higher top speed than the XR8 equl. XR8 topped out at 220 vs 224kms an hour for the ED XR6 (however that comparo was manual to manual) I understand and appreciate that in autos this top speed may very well be different.

Regarding exhaust and extractors in the XR6 (its genie custom made extractors with genie exhaust, Doesn't sound any where near as loud as pacemakers alas but it punches hard....for an auto...)

[BlackEDXR61993]

Originally Posted by Nikked

I'd rather a 185Kw EL XR...or Ed Sprint, faster and prettier.

Couldn't agree more its like AU XR6s nice motor but thats about all I like. They got Fat by AU :P

[Eaturbo]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

The easy comparison is to look at au xr8 185kw vs au xr6..

They fit the 3.45s to au xr8 and suddenly its quicker than xr6 and holden 5.0v8

Sure the au xr8 has a few kw more but only at redline. Compared to previous xr8s the 3.45 gears was the big kicker in performance.

Fit the 3.45s to pre au xr8s and a decent exhaust and you basically have au xr8 185kw equivalent performance. (quicker than a xr6)

Not completely right as the EL2 XR8 was 185kw and was faster than the EL Xr6. The EL and AU XR8 both had the explorer manifold which was where the gains where, not with the tiny diff ratio change. For my money 3.7's work very well on any auto or manual XR6/8. Ford even ran 3.7's in the later 6 speed manual BA/BF Falcon

[b0son]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

There is a such thing as a free lunch.

Forgive me, I didnt realise we had posters from an alternate universe... welcome!

In this universe, there is no fee lunch however...

Where exactly is the 185kw au xr8 slower than any e series xr8 (excluding sprint which has 3.45 gears)

The sprint had another 27kW! Of course it was quicker, and would have been with or without a 3.45.

[Windsor220]

To the OP, you can do diff gears, full exhaust, underdrive pulley and I think tuning these is possible(someone may need to confirm) before wholesale changes are needed or supercharging. Going to need atleast a couple of thousand just for the basic stuff

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

To the OP, you can do diff gears, full exhaust, underdrive pulley and I think tuning these is possible(someone may need to confirm) before wholesale changes are needed or supercharging. Going to need atleast a couple of thousand just for the basic stuff

Wholesale changes just to beat a ED XR6? We you bidding on the block finale episode where everyone paid $400k over the price?

Give me a ED XR8 with 3.45 gears in the back, full exhaust and Ill run any ED XR6 with full exhaust only, auto or manual.

[BlackEDXR61993]

First Question What does it set you back to run change diff gears? Secondly for the same money what can be done on the XR6 for that same coin?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by BlackEDXR61993

Hi Guys I am new to the forums.

I was wondering what mods would be needed to make and ED XR8 start to beat an ED XR6 that already has Extractors and a good exhaust? Also would these mods hamper fuel economy or better it?

That is open to interpretation.
Cost is the major factor. You could start with good extractors and exhaust with 3.45's (so you are on par with the XR6). Depending on drivers skill and wear of the cars, the XR should be quicker.

If you want to destroy the XR6. Then spend. 347, alloy heads, blower, etc.

Originally Posted by BlackEDXR61993

First Question What does it set you back to run change diff gears? Secondly for the same money what can be done on the XR6 for that same coin?

between $500 and $1000 depending on where ya go and what is needed.
XR6 prob get cam and head work.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Wholesale changes just to beat a ED XR6? We you bidding on the block finale episode where everyone paid $400k over the price?

Give me a ED XR8 with 3.45 gears in the back, full exhaust and Ill run any ED XR6 with full exhaust only, auto or manual.

I was just giving him a general post instead of comparing a kw, or tenth here or there. The difference between both is so small its not worth stressing about. Neither car is exactly fast these days.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

There is a such thing as a free lunch.

Where exactly is the 185kw au xr8 slower than any e series xr8 (excluding sprint which has 3.45 gears)

For $400 you can get au xr8 equal performance in your e series xr8 (and walk away from an ed xr6)

Switching from 3.23 to 3.45 gears isn't going to do jack bar maybe a tenth or so, nowhere near enough to keep up with an AU XR8. The AU XR8 was a high 14 car, the E series XR8's were mid 15. Its not going to pick up more than half a second with a set of 3.45's.

The AU XR8 was just a superior package, the engine made more torque everywhere, more top end and area under the graph was well up on E series. It was just a superior engine, and i'm sure the IRS got the power down better too.

The AU engine was so much better than what the figures show. In theory it should have been slower, cause it made the same power with an extra 10nm but with a lot of extra weight to carry, it goes to show it made a bit more than what they probably claimed, or more likely the E series V8's never made what they were claimed to. Some people believe the E series V8's were closer to 150kw than 165. Would also explain why the E series XR6's were easily quicker.

[RAPID_BA]

Have a look at a ef fairmont ghia vs el fairmont ghia

Ef ghia= 157kw and 0-100km/h in 9.2 seconds. 3.23 gears

El ghia = 162kw and 0-100 in 8.2 seconds 3.45 gears in diff.

Do we really think 5kw makes up for the 1second 0-100km/h its the diff gears

Same thing with el to au xr8. Minimal power improvement but diff gears and 1 second better 0-100km/h...

Get the 3.45s and enjoy. Cost me $400 2 months ago fitted in the LTD 5.0 it will dust up a xr6 no probs now.

[prydey]

i think one of the biggest problems is the pre ba xr6's are put up on some sort of pedestal compared to their v8 brother. the fact is there has never really been any sort of great divide between the xr6 and xr8. people talk like its daylight second but the numbers often only show a matter of tenths in it one way or the other.

even when xr6t came along, stock for stock, there was very little to choose between a boss and a T but that discussion has been done to death.

too many times you get stories from 'my mate who owned xyz, thrashed my other mate in his zxy' etc etc.

in the OP, the xr6 already had exhaust, so an xr8 would probably need an exhaust as well as diff gears. it all depends on your definition of 'faster' though.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Have a look at a ef fairmont ghia vs el fairmont ghia

Ef ghia= 157kw and 0-100km/h in 9.2 seconds. 3.23 gears

El ghia = 162kw and 0-100 in 8.2 seconds 3.45 gears in diff.

And we should take your word for it that those are the correct 0-100 times? Redbook quotes 8.4 for the EF and 8.3 for the EL.

Same thing with el to au xr8. Minimal power improvement but diff gears and 1 second better 0-100km/h...

The AU was 50kg lighter! And the figures I've seen for the two suggest the gap was closer to 0.5 sec. Again... where are you getting your numbers?

[BlackEDXR61993]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Have a look at a ef fairmont ghia vs el fairmont ghia

Ef ghia= 157kw and 0-100km/h in 9.2 seconds. 3.23 gears

El ghia = 162kw and 0-100 in 8.2 seconds 3.45 gears in diff.

Do we really think 5kw makes up for the 1second 0-100km/h its the diff gears

Same thing with el to au xr8. Minimal power improvement but diff gears and 1 second better 0-100km/h...

Get the 3.45s and enjoy. Cost me $400 2 months ago fitted in the LTD 5.0 it will dust up a xr6 no probs now.

357 NM vs 361 NM to add there too for what its worth. But also other things your not taking into account. Tickford Motor = Tickford ECU (sharper gear changes in the auto if I am not mistaken it works that way on the ED id not be surprised if it is the same on EF/EL) Also the Higher Fuel Pressure.

A more even test might have been fairmont EL vs fairmont ghia EL.

[BlackEDXR61993]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Switching from 3.23 to 3.45 gears isn't going to do jack bar maybe a tenth or so, nowhere near enough to keep up with an AU XR8. The AU XR8 was a high 14 car, the E series XR8's were mid 15. Its not going to pick up more than half a second with a set of 3.45's.

The AU XR8 was just a superior package, the engine made more torque everywhere, more top end and area under the graph was well up on E series. It was just a superior engine, and i'm sure the IRS got the power down better too.

The AU engine was so much better than what the figures show. In theory it should have been slower, cause it made the same power with an extra 10nm but with a lot of extra weight to carry, it goes to show it made a bit more than what they probably claimed, or more likely the E series V8's never made what they were claimed to. Some people believe the E series V8's were closer to 150kw than 165. Would also explain why the E series XR6's were easily quicker.

I am Pretty sure AU XR8 Didn't pull 14 second Passes till they went to Series III and had the 220 KW rebel Model or atleast series II with 200 KW. And The Reason an XR6s were quicker than the v8s firstly you take an inline six and give it some head work which they respond very well to so that is why.

Tickfored worked well on the XR6. The XR8 really wasn't much different to the family v8 engine if it was at all.

And yes 3.45 has abit to do with it......so does weight...so does the gearing in the gear box certainly in manuals autos well they're the same gearing there.


I do find it interesting tho. They got 7.2 0-100 15.2 0-400 m with the EB XR6 in one comparison. Yet AU XR6 VCT 172 KW over the 161 and 374nm vs 365 nm they still couldn't get a sub 14 second quarter in the fat pig of a thing.

what it boils down to imo I think there is wednesday cars and friday cars and I think this is more apparent in early E-series cars. They seem very inconsistant. you'll get one thats kinda average then one thats off its tree.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by b0son

And we should take your word for it that those are the correct 0-100 times? Redbook quotes 8.4 for the EF and 8.3 for the EL.



The AU was 50kg lighter! And the figures I've seen for the two suggest the gap was closer to 0.5 sec. Again... where are you getting your numbers?

Your redbook quote is for the ef2 which has same setup as el. I was referring to ef1 with the 3.23 ratio

[b0son]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Your redbook quote is for the ef2 which has same setup as el. I was referring to ef1 with the 3.23 ratio

My redbook quote was for EF1, unless you're saying redbook have put in a 0-100 time for the EF2? If so, why is there no time listed for EF2?

Sorry, but at this stage, it just looks like you're pulling numbers out of your ****.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BlackEDXR61993

I do find it interesting tho. They got 7.2 0-100 15.2 0-400 m with the EB XR6 in one comparison.

I take magazine times with a grain of salt. One mag runs two-up with a full tank on a road, another runs 1 up, low fuel, rubbered-in drag strip...

[pottery beige]

lols at the internerds having a internets drag race...

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BlackEDXR61993

I am Pretty sure AU XR8 Didn't pull 14 second Passes till they went to Series III and had the 220 KW rebel Model or atleast series II with 200 KW. And The Reason an XR6s were quicker than the v8s firstly you take an inline six and give it some head work which they respond very well to so that is why.

Motor clocked a 14.9 in an AU XR8 manual, so high 14's were possible. AU III's were a low to mid 14.

[RAPID_BA]

Originally Posted by b0son

My redbook quote was for EF1, unless you're saying redbook have put in a 0-100 time for the EF2? If so, why is there no time listed for EF2?

Sorry, but at this stage, it just looks like you're pulling numbers out of your ****.

I dont make up times. The 3.23 geared i6s were 0-100 in low 9s. The 3.45 geared i6s 0-100 was low 8s. I have a million motor magazines confirming.

The windsor v8s with 3.23 gears were low 8s for 0-100 sprint. But with 3.45 diff gears (from au) they were low 7s for the 0-100.

Ford responded when the holden sticking the supercharged 6 in the calais by sticking the xr6 motor and 3.45 diff in the ghia. The xr6 motor added a chicken feed 4kw but the 0-100 time dropped by a second. It must be the diff gears.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

I dont make up times. The 3.23 geared i6s were 0-100 in low 9s. The 3.45 geared i6s 0-100 was low 8s.

I had a 3.23 geared manual EF Futura, ran it against a manual XR6. There were tenths in it (and not many at that).

If the magazine figures are showing big differences, its different test conditions.

[ebxr8240]

Tickford didn't touch the V8 till the AU T series..
Sure there was some minor parts like badges etc..
The AU engine was basically a truck engine ..
So is the 5.4 Boss engine for that matter...