Falcon, Lincoln and Mustang, and RWD - Page 2

naddis01 · 07-07-2012, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Look at the part where I mentioned export throughout asia. If they went that way, which now looks very likely, production numbers will be double if not more than what they are now.

And it won't be a replacement for Falcon, it can never replace it, but large cars are reducing to next to nothing in terms of volume and medium cars are taking over from them. And Mondeo is just about as big as Falcon anyway. I know its not the same but if it keeps the line going at Broadmeadows its better than nothing.

To be fair the medium segment has only overtaken the large car segment due to the decline of large cars. The market share for medium cars has stayed fairly steady for the past decade. Small/light cars, SUV's and 4x4 utes is where its at. I can't see how local production of Mondeo all of a sudden boosts sales to where it needs to be. Anything over 600 sales/month is a good month in the medium segment if you aren't Camry.

It's a pity we couldn't have had Ranger instead of Thailand.

jpd80 · 07-07-2012, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

To be fair the medium segment has only overtaken the large car segment due to the decline of large cars. The market share for medium cars has stayed fairly steady for the past decade. Small/light cars, SUV's and 4x4 utes is where its at. I can't see how local production of Mondeo all of a sudden boosts sales to where it needs to be. Anything over 600 sales/month is a good month in the medium segment if you aren't Camry.

Mondeo sells so badly because dealers just can't get desirable stock, local manufacturing of even imported stampings
and parts kits would get us out of FoE's end of the line waiting queue and give dealers stock they could sell like now.
So many of Ford's global platforms are just plain unobtainium because they are made elsewhere, it's a real problem...

naddis01 · 07-07-2012, 10:29 AM

Maybe so, but what sort of increase in sales figures do you see for an Australian manufactured Mondeo? Double? Triple? I don't see that happening personally. What would they need to sell to make it a viable proposition? I would have thought at the very best you would see an increase of 50% (which I feel is very generous) which would bring it to around 750/month. Is that enough to justify the expense of setting the plant up?

Brazen · 07-07-2012, 10:35 AM

Small cars, SUVs and dual cabs. You are wasting your time wanting to build any other car in this country.

FPV GTHO · 07-07-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Maybe so, but what sort of increase in sales figures do you see for an Australian manufactured Mondeo? Double? Triple? I don't see that happening personally. What would they need to sell to make it a viable proposition? I would have thought at the very best you would see an increase of 50% (which I feel is very generous) which would bring it to around 750/month. Is that enough to justify the expense of setting the plant up?

I'm sure you could get one figure for just local production, and another figure without Falcon production taking private sales. Local production would also get a lot of fleet sales and make a dent into Camry there.

nstg8a · 07-07-2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Small cars, SUVs and dual cabs. You are wasting your time wanting to build any other car in this country.

this.

Moby Vic · 07-07-2012, 02:01 PM

What is a dual cab?

Rockape · 07-07-2012, 02:16 PM

4 door ute

FPV GTHO · 07-07-2012, 02:18 PM

4 door pickup, same as super crew or crew cab

Bossxr8 · 07-07-2012, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Small cars, SUVs and dual cabs. You are wasting your time wanting to build any other car in this country.

Camry outsells Falcon here.

And a plan to build Mondeo here doesn't revolve around domestic sales, but exports throughout asia.

jpd80 · 07-07-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

What is a dual cab?

USA calls them Crew Cab

jpd80 · 07-07-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Camry outsells Falcon here.

And a plan to build Mondeo here doesn't revolve around domestic sales, but exports throughout asia.

New Mondeo with EB 1.6 and stop=start gets slightly better fuel economy than Hybrid Camry,
bet that would go down big with local fleets and also prime target for Asian exports.
Done right, Mondeo could fetch 1200-1500 locally and possibly that much again in RHD/LHD exports.

The potential to FoA in added production and freeing up restrictive supply alone makes it a no brainer..
Start 1.6EB Mondeo base model at $25,990 drive away and watch Camry get kicked to the kerb...

Bossxr8 · 07-07-2012, 09:53 PM

If only they could build it alongside Falcon and Territory, and keep powertrain in business.

jpd80 · 07-07-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If only they could build it alongside Falcon and Territory, and keep powertrain in business.

Sustainability, Geelong needs an Ecoboost production line, only possible if FoA
were to win Mondeo and Kuga production for FAPA region I would think..

Bossxr8 · 07-07-2012, 10:32 PM

I've considered that a possibility too, or the diesel 4 cylinder.

Would require a big investment though.

jpd80 · 08-07-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I've considered that a possibility too, or the diesel 4 cylinder.

Would require a big investment though.

Ford is spending close to $5 billion in Asia/China on catch up infrastructure, there's nothing wrong with
updating and protecting Australian assets like engine assembly that could secure even more local production.

Buntz · 10-07-2012, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Mondeo sells so badly because dealers just can't get desirable stock, local manufacturing of even imported stampings
and parts kits would get us out of FoE's end of the line waiting queue and give dealers stock they could sell like now.
So many of Ford's global platforms are just plain unobtainium because they are made elsewhere, it's a real problem...

Nah... this is rubbish.

Any car that has interest like your saying, and dealers can't get enough of, doesn't stay this way for long. Ford would have done something about supply already. They make Mondeo in five other countries already, so if it was the run away success that it is then it would be.

Truth is, Mondeo is still quite a big car, and people are walking away from big cars. But Falcon is more tempting than Mondeo.

________________

Now to the OP. I've been saying for a quite a while that what Falcon needs is Lincoln to throw it a lifeline. However Lincoln aren't as autonomous as they seem, and probably work out of spare rooms at Dearborn. A fast, luxuriou, and capable sedan is waiting for Lincoln. But not while parent company Ford stands in the way.

IDT · 10-07-2012, 02:17 AM

I have been on the blue team since I could walk, so it really pains me to say it but I can't help but think that Australia isn't even an after thought when it comes to Ford in Asia. Other than R&D and product development can anyone tell me what value Australian based manufacturing brings to the brand? The cost of keeping the doors open in Oz are far out weighed by the low costs of everything in asia. The scale of manufacturing required to service such a massive market is simply not achievable here. So why on earth, from a business perspective, would you keep manufacturing here?

jpd80 · 10-07-2012, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Nah... this is rubbish.

Any car that has interest like your saying, and dealers can't get enough of, doesn't stay this way for long. Ford would have done something about supply already. They make Mondeo in five other countries already, so if it was the run away success that it is then it would be.
.

Respectfully, you are dead wrong. Go talk to a few dealers in the Eastern states.

Ford is heavily hamstrung with supply out of FoE due to our unique ADR builds,
meaning end of queue four months wait minimum and is the main reason for
switching Focus from Germany to Thailand to speed up deliveries.

The big problem is short supply of the 2.0 TDCI that goes into a lot of FoE vehicles,
There is no easy around this as Ford refuses to build a car diesel engine plant in
FAPA insisting that the Asian market prefers petrol engines.

Absolutely maddening situation for dealers.

Bossxr8 · 10-07-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Nah... this is rubbish.

Any car that has interest like your saying, and dealers can't get enough of, doesn't stay this way for long. Ford would have done something about supply already. They make Mondeo in five other countries already, so if it was the run away success that it is then it would be.

Truth is, Mondeo is still quite a big car, and people are walking away from big cars. But Falcon is more tempting than Mondeo.

As far as i'm aware the only factory that builds Mondeo is Genk in Belgium. Its not made anywhere else.

jpd80 · 10-07-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

As far as i'm aware the only factory that builds Mondeo is Genk in Belgium. Its not made anywhere else.

Vsevolozhsk, Russia and Chongquing, China.

Wikipedia is wrong about Rayong, Thailand - unless they know something we don't..

Bossxr8 · 10-07-2012, 09:05 PM

Thats a bit odd then, i've never heard of them being built outside of Genk.

But the reality is we would never source them from China or Russia, so that doesn't effect our supply levels here.

In Soviet Russia, Mondeo drives you.

Nikked · 10-07-2012, 09:09 PM

Things are moving in China...

Quote:

Ford has said it will bring 15 new models and 20 new engines and transmissions to China by 2015.

BLOOMBERG

We know australia is developing the T6 SUV, but there is also the other car for the chinese market. I can't find any info on it, besides the old Go Auto artical.

So, being larger then a fiesta, (and its not the Figo)...is it some other SUV, or could it be a version of the mondeo? Or just a china market Focus?

Quote:

Company sources also have dismissed Australian involvement in a proposed sub-Fiesta city car for China, saying the Australian contribution is a somewhat larger vehicle – and larger than Fiesta.

Go Auto

Given china's love with SUV's, could the Territory be a viable option?

Bossxr8 · 10-07-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Or just a china market Focus?

Ahem.......

jpd80 · 10-07-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Thats a bit odd then, i've never heard of them being built outside of Genk.

But the reality is we would never source them from China or Russia, so that doesn't effect our supply levels here.

In Soviet Russia, Mondeo drives you.

Big push in 2009 for manufacturing of Mpndeo both in China and Russia

Pretty soon, Hermosillo will switch to Fusion based on Mondeo
and next year Flat Rock will be producing them too.

I would hope that Ford has the good sense to give the FAPA contract to Broadmeadows instead of Thailand,
basing all production there is 1) not necessary and 2) not smart with potential for flooding..

GTP534 · 10-07-2012, 10:51 PM

I had a Mondeo courtesy car for a while last Friday (after I handed back the S/C GTP!).

It was a diesel hatch and quite alright to drive. It had a lot of features that I wish could be in an FPV, such as keyless engine start, power folding mirrors, auto down/up driver and front passenger windows, front collision warning, and I'm pretty sure it had blind spot monitoring too.

I really enjoyed it. When I took it back to the dealer and asked why there wasn't one on the showroom floor the answer was "Can't get enough of them."

My sister is looking for a new car at the moment and I've suggested they could do worse than look at the Mondeo.

Buntz · 12-07-2012, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Respectfully, you are dead wrong. Go talk to a few dealers in the Eastern states.

Ford is heavily hamstrung with supply out of FoE due to our unique ADR builds,
meaning end of queue four months wait minimum and is the main reason for
switching Focus from Germany to Thailand to speed up deliveries.

The big problem is short supply of the 2.0 TDCI that goes into a lot of FoE vehicles,
There is no easy around this as Ford refuses to build a car diesel engine plant in
FAPA insisting that the Asian market prefers petrol engines.

Absolutely maddening situation for dealers.

Okay... so the reason Mondeo sales are poor is because most orders are for the 2.0 TDCI, which most Europeans orders are for, and we can only get the leftovers?

And then what does all this have to do with our ADR? What has to be changed for ADR before being delivered? Ford chooses to sell this car here.

Buntz · 13-07-2012, 12:43 AM

Why is that sales of the "impossible-to-get" Mondeo are falling?

morak001 · 13-07-2012, 11:21 PM

Just a query, when people talk about manufacturing in a country, ie Thailand, China, Russia, should there be a differentiation between CKD plants to avoid import duties into that country and manufacturing plants producing from basic materials?

I mean if a company has a plant in a particular country that exists only to manufacture from CKD they are far less likely to be a source of vehicles, and a threat, to AU manufacturers.

**Luke Plaizier** · 13-07-2012, 11:34 PM

Other than stamping shells (and perhaps the I6), the Ford Australia assembly line really is just an assembler of parts from external suppliers anyway.

Or are Ford Oz making more than body stampings and the I6 for themselves these days?

Lukeyson