Smokey Mitsubishis

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by TMC

Nothing wrong with the 380. Better build quality than a Falcon actually. They didn't go out of business in Oz because the 380 was a bad car. It was a brilliant car. What killed it was that no one wanted a big family sedan anymore. Sound familiar.

A friend of mine used to work for Mitsubishi, and he kind of explained the story behind the 380 saga. The Mitsubishi factory was churning out less and less units and Mitsubishi in Japan wanted to shut down the Australian operation. The Australian government said, "No, we'll give you umpteen million dollars to continue if you come up with some sort of plan that we can say the money will go too". Now Mitsubishi Japan wasn't going to turn down a big pay cheque from the Australian government. So they designed the 380, a big family car that according to the trend graphs would not sell. Mitsubishi Japan knew it wouldn't sell. It was there plan for it to bomb out. Mitsubishi invested in a factory upgrade with all new state of the art panel making robots etc that made the cars fit and panel alignment top notch. When the 380 didn't sell or boost sales, they shut the plant anyway and sold the Lonsdale plant for umpteen million dollars, which I think went to Holden. So they made a heap of money, which they wouldn't have done if they shut the plant originally.

The moral of the story, great products do not always sell.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it was brilliant, it lacked a lot of things that were considered must have's when it was released, like no curtain airbags and no stability control, but it wasn't a bad car, quality was supposed to be quite good, but I guess when you are making less than 50 a day the workers had all the time in the world to check quality. The thing that killed it before it began was Mitsubishi Japan's decision to kill the long wheelbase export version called PS41L before it went into production, which basically killed Mitsubishi overnight because they were totally relying on those export numbers to make the 380 viable. Once that volume was gone it had no hope.

[madwag]

mine started blowing blue on takeoff when the head gasket died. Best car ever though!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by irish2

If a car glazes the bores it is due to incorrect run in procedure. No rings have a tension that hold them to the bore.

...really...?

Guess those piston ring compressors you use to get the piston in the bore are just a useless bit of kit in the toolbox I can safely throw away then...

The thing about smokey Magnas...or any car that age really...is that they are old...the last of the old-shape Magnas was made a long time ago now, and if they have been used harshly and gone through a lot of hands, as many have, they'll start to smoke.

My Toyota Celica was made in 1982, and it has only 130,000km on it now because a little old lady owned it before me and hardly drove it. I've seen plenty of others however that are standard like mine but very tired and, yes, smokey.

Combine age with neglect, throw in a little bit of original design flaw possibly, and you'll get smoke out of anything eventually.

[Silver Ghia]

I always thought Camiras were much worse at blowing smoke than Mitsubishis. They were the worst IMO.

Most Mitsubishis which I see blow smoke are getting on a bit now, so things like rings, valve seals and guides would be leaking a bit (as 2011G6E mentioned), but probably everything else would still be running ok, so they continue driving them until they get reported.

Originally Posted by nstg8a

most be the worlds only rwd to suffer from torquesteer...

And it was only Cordias without power steering. Why they sold Cordias without ps is beyond me.

[Road_Warrior]

I owned two Sigmas and never had a problem with them blowing oil smoke. In fact, they were bloody good cars that took all the abuse I threw at them and then some.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I always thought Camiras were much worse at blowing smoke than Mitsubishis. They were the worst IMO.

Most Mitsubishis which I see blow smoke are getting on a bit now, so things like rings, valve seals and guides would be leaking a bit (as 2011G6E mentioned), but probably everything else would still be running ok, so they continue driving them until they get reported.





And it was only Cordias without power steering. Why they sold Cordias without ps is beyond me.

lol, i owned two turbo cordias, one 1600, and one 1800 and i never noticed they didnt have powersteer

[au adam]

I have an 96 Manga here as a run around(well when i find the keys anyway),its done a little over 300,000 and blows no smoke.3.0 V6

[Ben73]

I had a 3.5L magna. Good car, except for topping up the oil level every week.
Yes it blew a bit of smoke but it wasn't very much.

[Crazy Dazz]

We’ve owned 3 Mitsubishi’s; Colt, Nimbus, and Starwagon. The Nimbus was a brilliant car, great driving position and fun to drive.
The Starwagon was good for what it was, a big box for hauling 8 people or a bunch of stuff.

But in the engines in all 3 were **** with a capital S.
One theory I often heard advanced was that they were too much the same as the original Jap engines and just weren’t designed or built to do the miles that we rack up in Australia.

[TMC]

My mum has a 380 2007 version and it's a great car. Front wheel drive with 175kW means burn out city, but it's a great smooth quiet drive.

[Mal__01]

Another still have it 3.5L TH no smoke. 150KM. Honestly best car I have owned. Had it since 33k had to replace an alternator and a batt but nothing apart from that.

[Craney]

Originally Posted by TMC

Nothing wrong with the 380. Better build quality than a Falcon actually. They didn't go out of business in Oz because the 380 was a bad car. It was a brilliant car. What killed it was that no one wanted a big family sedan anymore. Sound familiar.

A friend of mine used to work for Mitsubishi, and he kind of explained the story behind the 380 saga. The Mitsubishi factory was churning out less and less units and Mitsubishi in Japan wanted to shut down the Australian operation. The Australian government said, "No, we'll give you umpteen million dollars to continue if you come up with some sort of plan that we can say the money will go too". Now Mitsubishi Japan wasn't going to turn down a big pay cheque from the Australian government. So they designed the 380, a big family car that according to the trend graphs would not sell. Mitsubishi Japan knew it wouldn't sell. It was there plan for it to bomb out. Mitsubishi invested in a factory upgrade with all new state of the art panel making robots etc that made the cars fit and panel alignment top notch. When the 380 didn't sell or boost sales, they shut the plant anyway and sold the Lonsdale plant for umpteen million dollars, which I think went to Holden. So they made a heap of money, which they wouldn't have done if they shut the plant originally.

The moral of the story, great products do not always sell.

I reckon this could be on the money. I remember commentators bagging simple things like the appauling choice of interior colours and textures of the 380 and asking "Is Mitsubishi deliberately trying to wreck their chances of appealing to the Aussie large car market?" The later years were horrible. Houndstooth (or whatever it was called) door trims, mismatched, multiple colours etc.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Craney

I reckon this could be on the money. I remember commentators bagging simple things like the appauling choice of interior colours and textures of the 380 and asking "Is Mitsubishi deliberately trying to wreck their chances of appealing to the Aussie large car market?" The later years were horrible. Houndstooth (or whatever it was called) door trims, mismatched, multiple colours etc.

Dont forget that ugly steering wheel.

[Nic85]

380 the worst car ever made in Australia?

It's without a doubt one of the best cars built in this country. The reason it stopped being made here was not because it was a bad car, it was because the buying public didn't want it. Exactly like what's hapenning now with the Falcon. People said it was because it was FWD, well, the Falcon isn't FWD and it's going the same way, so it couldn't of been that. If you go over to the Magna club, there's lots of guys on there with 380's, and no real problems to speak of. Small niggly things like ticking a ECV (replaced for $120) and I'm struggling to think of anything else off the top of my head. The fact is that they were a very solidly built car. Very quiet and refined. Mine has 75,000kms on it and is still tight as the day it was new. No interior or dash rattles, suspension is completely silent and it still feels like a new car.

To the topic at hand. It's mostly been answered, but the problem engines were the 2.6L Astron II and the 6G72 3.0L V6. Valve stem seals let go after about 180,000kms or so. The problem was fixed in the 3.5L V6 6G74. The 3.8L 6G75 is a great engine with heaps of torque.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Nic85

380 the worst car ever made in Australia? Get yer hand off it champ.

It's without a doubt one of the best cars built in this country. The reason it stopped being made here was not because it was a bad car, it was because the buying public didn't want it. Exactly like what's hapenning now with the Falcon. People said it was because it was FWD, well, the Falcon isn't FWD and it's going the same way, so it couldn't of been that. If you go over to the Magna club, there's lots of guys on there with 380's, and no real problems to speak of. Small niggly things like ticking a ECV (replaced for $120) and I'm struggling to think of anything else off the top of my head. The fact is that they were a very solidly built car. Very quiet and refined. Mine has 75,000kms on it and is still tight as the day it was new. No interior or dash rattles, suspension is completely silent and it still feels like a new car.

To the topic at hand. It's mostly been answered, but the problem engines were the 2.6L Astron II and the 6G72 3.0L V6. Valve stem seals let go after about 180,000kms or so. The problem was fixed in the 3.5L V6 6G74. The 3.8L 6G75 is a great engine with heaps of torque.

Pretty much agree with this. My 2008 380 has 95,000km on it, and stills gets to the limit faster than a BA XR6.

My olds' had a TR magna with the 3.0 V6 in it - they racked up over 200,000km in it with very little maintenance, and sold the car to a work colleague of mine who is still driving it.......

The old sigma motors were very iffy though, but like all things, later engines are usually better than earlier ones (a BA 4.0 is soooooo much better than the old Xflow 250)

[irish2]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

...really...?

Guess those piston ring compressors you use to get the piston in the bore are just a useless bit of kit in the toolbox I can safely throw away then...

The thing about smokey Magnas...or any car that age really...is that they are old...the last of the old-shape Magnas was made a long time ago now, and if they have been used harshly and gone through a lot of hands, as many have, they'll start to smoke.

Combine age with neglect, throw in a little bit of original design flaw possibly, and you'll get smoke out of anything eventually.

Yes rings are compressed to get them into the bore but they wear in against the bore with cylinder pressure. Any decent engine builder will load an engine hard in its early life, the tension in the ring itself is not enough to bed the motor in properly.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by irish2

Yes rings are compressed to get them into the bore but they wear in against the bore with cylinder pressure. Any decent engine builder will load an engine hard in its early life, the tension in the ring itself is not enough to bed the motor in properly.

If you have no ring tension in the bore, the motor is stuffed. Zippo compression. An engine always needs to retain ring tension against the bore, or else the ring will just flutter around in there letting gasses out, not to mention wearing the ring groove in the piston quicker. With no ring tension you'll have heaps of blowby coming out of every orifice in the engine.

[Fireblade]

My old mans 380 GTL is one of the better locally made cars i have been in, fully optioned and had no faults in nearly 5 years of ownership, so much so that I told him he would be stupid to trade it when he bought a new car so kept it for his wife, I have spent considerable time with it and detailed it a lot and I find it is much better built than the 3 Fords I have owned including my F6, not bagging my Fords but highlighting the quality of the 380.

[Ezz]

The later Magna's etc were an extremely reliable and great value for money car. Personally, the TJ Magna series were one of the best sedans that Mitsubishi ever developed, and in it's era was the quickest N/A 3.5lt V6 in a straight line of its time easily out performing the Commodore, Falcon, Toyota of the same era. The VR-X models were eye candy... still are today in my opinion. The eagle nose design was a standout and even 10 years later, doesn't look old. Yes they were FWD, but as a daily driver family sedan... it was a clear winner above the rest.

2 years ago I sold my two Magna's. One being a rare model (which has often been underrated or known little about), the Ralliart Magna. Yeah, it had a batman style rear wing but the body kit was extremely well done and suited the car without going all out fat panels such as you see on many of Holdens body kits.

The Ralliart out performed HSV's Supercharged XU6 and Fords XR8 and 6. In complete stock N/A form, the Ralliart was capable of achieving a 1/4 mile run in 14.6 - 14.7 @ between 155-168 km hr. Damn good for stock 3.5lt V6 which produced 180kw (140fwkw) and 333 Nm torque. Still, the VR-X and the Ralliart Magna are up there with the best second hand cars you could get as a P plater. Plenty of power, FWD good for a first year driver... no issue with the back end coming out and them crapping themselves just gotta learn to deal with oversteer.

I did some work to my Ralliart Magna, had it up to 154.3 fwkw (194kw @ engine) 365Nm torque. Other guys that had done similar work achieved low14 sec passes for minimal work. There are a few supercharged and turbo charged Ralliarts and VR-X's out there and believe me, there not to be underestimated.

The other being the 2002 TJ Series 2 VR-X 5-speed auto... funny enough I bought it back because I needed a reliable second car, that could fit the family and wouldn't cost me an arm and a leg. It's done over 340,000 ks now, hasn't missed a beat. Ran a 15.1 in its hay days completely stock on road tyres.

Besides all that, the 3rd gen magna's were one of the most reliable cars out there. Probably still are. Yes you get lemons from almost every car maker, but it was the earlier model magna's 1st & 2nd gens that had all the problems with seals, cooling etc.

Here are some pics of the old girls... stick looks current today in my opinion. Such reliable cars at an amazingly affordable price.
(damn i miss the Ralliart... but I sold it to pay for the XRT! )

2002 TJ RALLIART MAGNA





2002 TJ MAGNA VRX SERIES 2

[IceValk85]

id have that red ralliart anyday.

there was an AWD version of the late magnas too wasnt there which also looked the goods?



Ice

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by IceValk85

id have that red ralliart anyday.

there was an AWD version of the late magnas too wasnt there which also looked the goods?



Ice

There was. The AWD Magnas were automatic only and suffered a weight penalty of about 100kgs due to the rear diff (still only weighed about 1670kgs) They ran high 15's from memory, but gripped and handled well.

[Mont5.0]

^^ guzzled fuel well too.

[Ezz]

Yeah, they never got it quite right with the AWD. Lacking power, nasty on fuel, but I knew a guy who owned a Sprintex Supercharged TL VR-X which was brilliant around a track and in all weather conditions.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by TMC

If you have no ring tension in the bore, the motor is stuffed. Zippo compression. An engine always needs to retain ring tension against the bore, or else the ring will just flutter around in there letting gasses out, not to mention wearing the ring groove in the piston quicker. With no ring tension you'll have heaps of blowby coming out of every orifice in the engine.

Exactly...

Back to Magnas. That red Ralliart Magna is amazing...we came very close to buying one that was a demonstrator, but my job at the time wouldn't quite stretch to buying a new car. I still remember that thing...it was bright yellow, black/grey interior, it was fantastic.

I drove several rental 380's out here (after they'd stopped selling them), and we all looked at one another after we'd driven them...they were great cars, handled well enough for a big family car, and were hard to pick as a front-driver unless you were doing something stupid. Guess more people should have taken the time to go and test drive one.

[Windsor220]

The 380s had a good drivetrain and suspension. Very nice to drive the things that let them down were cheap looking plastics, dodgy paint and I'm fairly sure they had window problems too. They never did enough with them looks and power wise either. I wouldnt mind having one as a daily now.

The Magnas before them were ok apart from the autos always failing. That and a couple of regular issues with fuel senders, horns and remotes.

[zilo]

A few 380's on the internet that look a bit different.

This one has a supercharger, 8 piston brakes front and rear, 0-100 in under 6 seconds with an LSD, full Koni suspension system, twin cat back exhaust, forged engine...and LPG.

What a waste of money on such an ugly locally built car.



]

[NeillNZ]

I had a petrol Mitsi van that was one of those "fill er up mate, oh and check the petrol".

It was especially bad under hard acceleration following a period of trailing throttle, like go up a hill after coming down a steep hill.

This was at about 180,000k. Nothing else was wrong with it so I took it's sorry *** along to an engine re conditioner. As someone posted way back the problem was with valve stem seals. The bottom end was fine and was left as is. Was fine after the head work. Sold it at 330,000k and was still not burning oil.

[SSD-85]

I had a 90 TE Magna, complete with a 2.6 Astron 2-stroke.

Any motor is good if you maintain it to the standard it requires. Which for an Ast-smoke, happens to be a lot. Nevertheless, id had dreams of turbo-ing one just for the hell of it. I reckon it wouldve kicked butt

[flooded one]

my misses has an 88 TN magna. blows smoke when you start it up!!! typical old magna!! it is starting too show its age but like most of them now are. 228 000kms still motoring on!! dont like the auto box in it thou and bloody fuel economy!! what fuel economy!! chews a heap of fuel for a 4 cylinder!! I've been told the carby versions use heaps of fuel. I'd hate too see how much!! hers is an EFI version!!! its had a second hand radiator put in her the other day as the old one was getting a few leaks!! thou i'm a bit worried about her car at the moment. since her mechanic replaced the radiator with a second hand one, its not over heating but its running hotter then it normally does. I checked the fluid levels in the reserve tank and radiator and noticed that what looks like rust specs floating in the coolant?? kinda worried that theres something that could be rust or some crud blocking coolant flow in this second hand tank?? I only found out what it was doing today when she was driving around and i was in the car. looked at temperature gauge and i told her thats running hotter then it normal does (at operating temp usally half way on gauge, today was 3/4 on gauge. not at red zone yet) she tells me thats where its being sitting since she got it back. kinda feel bad as i offered to buy a new radiator with a warranty and her father buys her a second hand one for her. It saves me money but now i am worried that the radiator he brought might have been stuffed. besides all that its not a bad car for what it is thou. nice ride for a 24 year old car. its the 2.6 L aston 4 cylinder engine

[Resurrection]

All of the smoking Mitsubishis I've seen had the Astron engine fitted. They are notorious at producing smoke once they get old. I've lost count how many I've reported to the EPA smokey vehicle hotline.