Slowing down for roadworks...

[OzJavelin]

Hate to sound like a communist but people disobeying road rules like speeding through a construction zones is basically selfishness .. thinking rules don't apply to them. This is not a Eureka-rebellion, "sticking-it-to-the-man" for their oppressive and illogical restrictions .. it's just they think that rules don't apply to them because they are special (their mums told them so!) .. but are probably quite happy for those same rules to apply to everyone else. We all do it from time to time, just some of us do it more than others.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Hate to sound like a communist but people disobeying road rules like speeding through a construction zones is basically selfishness .. thinking rules don't apply to them. This is not a Eureka-rebellion, "sticking-it-to-the-man" for their oppressive and illogical restrictions .. it's just they think that rules don't apply to them because they are special (their mums told them so!) .. but are probably quite happy for those same rules to apply to everyone else. We all do it from time to time, just some of us do it more than others.

Agree with you but have you travelled the Bruce Highway lately?
I'm fairly patient and normally very law abiding but the way signs are being placed is just crazy.
You approach road works, first sign 80 kph, about 500 metres on, there's a 60 kph, 2 km on there's
a 40 kph and then 500 meters on there stop/go and road works for about 1km and then the reverse.
Now consider that over and over again between Gladstone and Gin Gin, it changes a 1 3/4 hour
drive into nearly three hours..I don't have a problem with road safety, it's just the way this work
has been planned to happen in one continuous line that is causing major disruption, it's something
that could have been spread out over several months and minimized the annoyance.

[MarkAW]

Why should you have to slow down when the work site is protected by concrete barriers. These are the same barriers that prevent vehicles coming in the opposite direction from colliding with on-coming traffic so why cant they adequately protect the road workers without impeding the drivers.

Its not the road workers who are being precious - its the idiots who sit on standards committees and other similar publications. They live in ivory towers and actually understand jack.

[TheSneakiness]

What really gets my goat is when they've completed the roadworks and the conditions are better than before but the speed limit needs to drop 10km/h. Why? Are they that ashamed of their work it needs to have the limit reduced? Replace ashamed with dodgy?

[2011G6E]

They have to have the long lead time to the roadworks to give numpties the chance to realise that something is going on up ahead instead of just coming on roadworks at 100kph and having to come to a screetching stop.

Example: I was driving down to Bundy in the G6E a couple of weeks back, and left Marmor servo where I had just bought a drink. Getting ready to pull out behind me was a b-double semi with two low-loader trailers, each with a pair of massive sandstone blocks on it. Just down the road where it went back to 100kph, shortly after there was a "60kph roadworks ahead" sign. I couldn't see anything, but slowed down. Then came a curve in the highway some time later, and I could see another sign saying 60 again, prepare to stop. About a kilometer or so further on was a woman holding a stop-go sign and then I culd see the roadworks. I stopped for the sign, and waited for a minute or two. Then she started waving the sop sign in the air and holding up a hand and waving. I looked in the rear view and saw the semi flying around the corner, obviously doing 100kph at least. He got on the brakes, and I could see the tyres locking here and there and the cab shuddering as he came to a stop, finally, about a meter off my bumper. I already had one foot on the brake and one on the gas ready to get the hell out of there.
The woman went and had a few words with him and then came back and let us go, shaking her head.

If he had slowed down for the initial 60k warning sign (placed well back before the corner to give people warning) he wouldn't have had to do a panic stop.

Is your hectic life so rushed that you can't slow down for a minute or two? Even if you couldn't care less about the roadworkers themselves, don't you at least want to avoid the massive fine for speeding in roadworks, or protect your car from the inevitable gravel that flies all over the place from the road surface, even when it's a weekend and they aren't working?

Not to mention workplace health and safety. Even with concrete barriers, if some road worker somehow got hurt by a motorist flying past within inches of a barrier, say flicking up an object or running out of talent and hitting the wall or something, the employer has to show in court that they have done everything in thier power to protect the workers. Concrete barriers are good, but why did they let vehicles still go past at unrestricted speed when a couple of simple road signs slowing the traffic could have minimised the risk?

And it isn't just workers...the transport department is already facing claims for damages from people who have damaged thier cars on the highways since the floods. If you were allowed, say on a weekend, to just speed through a roadworks area where no one is around and something happened...smashed windscreen, hit a post placed on the roadside, whatever...you would be well within your rights to turn around and ask why they didn't have signs up restricting the speeds in that area and sue for damages.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Why should you have to slow down when the work site is protected by concrete barriers. These are the same barriers that prevent vehicles coming in the opposite direction from colliding with on-coming traffic so why cant they adequately protect the road workers without impeding the drivers.

Its not the road workers who are being precious - its the idiots who sit on standards committees and other similar publications. They live in ivory towers and actually understand jack.

So a b double hitting a temporary concrete barrier at 80kmh isnt going push the barrier at all towards people working on the other side????

You have never worked on road works before have you?

[Ben73]

At whittingham the railway runs parallel to the highway. When they decided to lay a third they reduced the highway from 100 down to 60 even though there was 40m of grass and fences between the road and the work site. But left the other 2 railway lines at normal speed, 120kmh for passenger trains.
Bit them in the *** when a dump truck rolled and lost it's load of ballast onto the rail track just as a coal train was passing at 80kmh

[Jestr75]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Agree with you but have you travelled the Bruce Highway lately?
I'm fairly patient and normally very law abiding but the way signs are being placed is just crazy.
You approach road works, first sign 80 kph, about 500 metres on, there's a 60 kph, 2 km on there's
a 40 kph and then 500 meters on there stop/go and road works for about 1km and then the reverse.
Now consider that over and over again between Gladstone and Gin Gin, it changes a 1 3/4 hour
drive into nearly three hours..I don't have a problem with road safety, it's just the way this work
has been planned to happen in one continuous line that is causing major disruption, it's something
that could have been spread out over several months and minimized the annoyance.

I have the same problem with that stretch of road. Definately could have been planned better. It is almost as though you have road works going on amongst other roadworks. Traffic control doesn't exactly help with traffic flow either.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

So a b double hitting a temporary concrete barrier at 80kmh isnt going push the barrier at all towards people working on the other side????

does this happen often?

[kennyboy]

Originally Posted by b0son

does this happen often?

it only has to happen once!

On the ring road the lanes beside the concrete blocks have been "skinnied" down so you don't have much room for error, especially when the traffics heavy - try being caught between the concrete & a semi, even at "only" 80kmh, at night its a nightmare.

I also get annoyed when my car is showered with rocks by the drivers that don't slow down in spite of the warning signs (mostly on the hume). I usually have to get a new wind screen every year because of it.

[prydey]

people don't obey them because the sign usage is abused. the regulations for signage must be a joke. i'm assuming the placement of signs is governed by regulations, or is it just up to the individual worker to determine how much of an area he will slow down with his signs??

many times i see signage up on main roads when the actual work is being carried out about 100m up a side street on a footpath.

councils shouldn't abuse the privilege of putting signs out and more motorists might take them a little more seriously.

most states seem to have abolished the 25km/h signs, but not dear little adelaide. lets slow a 100km/h road down to 25 because someone is using a whipper snipper 10m off the edge of the road.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by kennyboy

it only has to happen once!

so why arent we erecting concrete barriers alongside any footpaths that are adjacent any main roads?

i just dont get it. its fine for joe public, but as soon as someone dons a fluoro vest, out come the risk managers, committees, etc, and drivers treated like they're transporting explosives....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by b0son

managers, committees, etc, .

there's the problem

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by b0son

so why arent we erecting concrete barriers alongside any footpaths that are adjacent any main roads?

i just dont get it. its fine for joe public, but as soon as someone dons a fluoro vest, out come the risk managers, committees, etc, and drivers treated like they're transporting explosives....

And you dont seem to understand the concept of safety for road workers and motorists...

The barriers work both ways and stop road workers, plant equip etc from accidently getting into the flow of traffic.

The average pedestrian will be looking around his/ her surroundings and is likely most of the time able to see a car heading towards them....

Road workers are NOT looking out for traffic, they are doing a job (jokes aside) so they are not looking out for cars doing 100kmh.

Road workers, by the nature of their job description, work on roads ALL the time. Hence they are more likely to be killed or run down then the average pedestrian.

I have worked by the road side and seen how pathetic attitudes cause near death experiences EVERY time i was out there on a road work area, the last straw was being hit a drugged up female in a 4WD who was impatient and knocked me over with her truck sized mirrors as she floored it after I had stopped her because the single lane bridge ahead was being worked on....
She then locked it up after had swerved to miss a head on with a tip truck and then did a nice 360 in a ditch and almost rolled it.

But hey.. who cares right?

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

So a b double hitting a temporary concrete barrier at 80kmh isnt going push the barrier at all towards people working on the other side????

You have never worked on road works before have you?

Yeah right I can't possibly understand anything unless I actually work at one of these sites - goose would seem to be the correct description.

If your worried about a B double hitting the barrier then maybe you should have a roped safety zone inside the barrier for just such a situation. Risk should be based on risk and probability and determined by the physics of the system. Not by hysterics or prophecy of the sky falling in.

and as I previously stated but you managed to ignore, if a barrier system is capable of stopping the same B double from crossing the centre line then it is entirely acceptable to prevent the intrusion of the same vehicle into a work zone.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

If your worried about a B double hitting the barrier then maybe you should have a roped safety zone inside the barrier for just such a situation. Risk should be based on risk and probability and determined by the physics of the system. Not by hysterics or prophecy of the sky falling in.

All well and good to say that until someone you know gets killed. The roadworks speed limits are only there for everybody's safety; it is actually not just a cunning plan by the council to agitate impatient drivers. I'm sure you are a very important person with very important places you have to be, but the people who work behind those barriers building new roads for you are important too, and they also have important places to be, like at home with their family at the end of the day.

[kinksta]

In Adelaide there were some night works, and I always slow down. The limit was 25kmph, which I was doing just under, the workers were 10m away from the lane I was on and some guy storms out yelling to slow down... I was like "but cars don't go slower than this"... I found it funny as slower than 25 is backwards...

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by Streets

All well and good to say that until someone you know gets killed. The roadworks speed limits are only there for everybody's safety; it is actually not just a cunning plan by the council to agitate impatient drivers. I'm sure you are a very important person with very important places you have to be, but the people who work behind those barriers building new roads for you are important too, and they also have important places to be, like at home with their family at the end of the day.

Yep thats the way hysteric are applied to an argument - use emotional statements without any basis in logic or even a rational argument.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And you dont seem to understand the concept of safety for road workers and motorists...

I would argue that if 50kmh and no barrier is safe amongst kids who dont know any better, then 40kmh is overly cautious amongst adults that do know better, especially if there is also a barrier in place.

The average pedestrian will be looking around his/ her surroundings and is likely most of the time able to see a car heading towards them....

Pedestrians are generally unaware of traffic. How many pedestrians get hit by cars compared to road workers?

Road workers, by the nature of their job description, work on roads ALL the time.

If safety is the objective, arent roadworks run during peak hour counter-productive?

[Streets]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

Yep thats the way hysteric are applied to an argument - use emotional statements without any basis in logic or even a rational argument.

Road workers not wanted to get killed by impatient drivers... that's hysterics?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Streets

Road workers not wanted to get killed by impatient drivers... that's hysterics?

Blaming the problem on impatient drivers is also hysterics.

The issue is that you wont get a high level of compliance with a speed limit if it is too low for the conditions. Its human nature - people will drive at a speed that feels appropriate.

Were the limit set at a slightly more realistic level, and perhaps even revert to a higher limit when the workers were not present, you'd get a higher level of compliance, which would lead to lowere speed differentials between the fasterst and slowest drivers, and that would lead to greater safety for ALL parties.

[potsyfromparkes]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes in many situations this is correct but unfortunately some lazy workers, often council will leave the signs out at night or on weekends even when they are for mowing the roadside or surveying etc.

These situations are EXTREMELY annoying and dangerous particularly when they cause traffic bunch ups.

Exactly; and that is the problem;out here in the Parkes area you will see a warning to slow down to 80kph for defective road and there is nothing wrong. I can understand why people get ****ed off with decptive road signs. The RTA in NSW have a lot to answer for.
Whilst we are on the subject;all these ads for speeding,doing the wrong thing etc,drink driving why do people find it so comfortable to walk with their backs to oncoming traffic at night with dark gear on.
Recipe for disater and I would think that most road autorities should be adressing this issue with a road campaign. Why aren't they fined for being stupid.The onus always sems to be on the driver to do the right thing.

[davenl5l]

my stepson on his l plates driving in adelaide for the first time was tailgated and abused for doing the roadworks speedlimit by 10 or 15 idiots and not all were ferals !!!!!!!!!!!!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And you dont seem to understand the concept of safety for road workers and motorists...

The barriers work both ways and stop road workers, plant equip etc from accidently getting into the flow of traffic.

The average pedestrian will be looking around his/ her surroundings and is likely most of the time able to see a car heading towards them....

Road workers are NOT looking out for traffic, they are doing a job (jokes aside) so they are not looking out for cars doing 100kmh.

Road workers, by the nature of their job description, work on roads ALL the time. Hence they are more likely to be killed or run down then the average pedestrian.

I have worked by the road side and seen how pathetic attitudes cause near death experiences EVERY time i was out there on a road work area, the last straw was being hit a drugged up female in a 4WD who was impatient and knocked me over with her truck sized mirrors as she floored it after I had stopped her because the single lane bridge ahead was being worked on....
She then locked it up after had swerved to miss a head on with a tip truck and then did a nice 360 in a ditch and almost rolled it.

But hey.. who cares right?

I hear every word you're saying and agree with the lot of them...but "flogging a dead horse" comes to mind.

Both you and I work in very different industries...but they are ones governed by speed signs for our, and everyone elses, safety. If people don't obey the speed signs in your work area, there's a very good chance that someone will be injured or killed. If I repeatedly don't obey each and every speed sign in my "work area", I'll be sitting on the platform and given a "show cause" as to why I shouldn't be given the opportunity to become more well acquainted with the staff at the local Centerlink office.

Too many people are ****ed off that thier busy day is delayed for even a couple of minutes, not realising (or apparently caring) that there are workers out there whose lives, and lives of those around them, depend on speed signs.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes in many situations this is correct but unfortunately some lazy workers, often council will leave the signs out at night or on weekends even when they are for mowing the roadside or surveying etc.

These situations are EXTREMELY annoying and dangerous particularly when they cause traffic bunch ups.

You cant just assume the sign is left out though and break the law by speeding can you flappist,thats just ignorance isnt it?If the sign is their and we all follow the suggested speed it will be hassle free,well alot less anyway.

If its causing issues then its only because certain people arent obeying the signs displayed.If they are their you obey them imo,makes things alot easier for everyone and less dangerous as you put it

Disobeying roadworks is just as bad as ignoring the signs at schools imo.No difference.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Streets

Road workers not wanted to get killed by impatient drivers... that's hysterics?

it's not safety we're complaining about, it's how they are managed. getting the management right will make it both safer and less of an inconvenience.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

You cant just assume the sign is left out though and break the law by speeding can you flappist,thats just ignorance isnt it?If the sign is their and we all follow the suggested speed it will be hassle free,well alot less anyway.

If its causing issues then its only because certain people arent obeying the signs displayed.If they are their you obey them imo,makes things alot easier for everyone and less dangerous as you put it

Disobeying roadworks is just as bad as ignoring the signs at schools imo.No difference.

You miss the point that it is inappropriate use of signs left out when it is not needed.
This seems to be more of a problem in Council country areas, not city or highway works, where they ARE often left out over weekends and there is no dangerous conditions.
If you constantly come across non-existent works, with 60Km/hr limits, a driver can become a bit blase about whether the next works he comes to, is the same as the the last useless restrictions he went through.
It happens in the Bush all the time.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

You cant just assume the sign is left out though and break the law by speeding can you flappist,thats just ignorance isnt it?If the sign is their and we all follow the suggested speed it will be hassle free,well alot less anyway.

If its causing issues then its only because certain people arent obeying the signs displayed.If they are their you obey them imo,makes things alot easier for everyone and less dangerous as you put it

Disobeying roadworks is just as bad as ignoring the signs at schools imo.No difference.

in SA, 25k signs around schools changed a while back to 25 if children present. if you can't see any kids, it's 50 straight past a school.

can't see why it cant be the same for road works signs.

[2011G6E]

The interesting point is that some people are complaining about how you will come across, for example, an 80kph sign, then a 60 sign, then finally a 40 sign and "prepare to stop" for a flagman, and how far out they start.

So...can I assume you would prefer to just fly along at 100k's until you see a sign saying "40kph prepare to stop", and 500 meters on is a guy with a stop sign? Your god-like braking ability, reflexes, and situational awareness might enable you to immediately see the sign, react, get on the brakes hard and pull up in time, however, look around you at the average driving skills and state of some of the vehicles on the road.

Now imagine yourself standing there holding that stop sign. Wouldn't you want people to be warned well ahead of time just to account for those who might have missed the first sign?

The best reason I heard for the signs being "left out" over the weekend and at night is that road conditions are changed, and work hasn't finished yet. Once again, if they left the road as gravel or dirt or with posts set here and there, and put it back to 100kph each night, the person having the inevitable accident would be quite nicely able to sue the council/transport department for "not securing a work area when they left it for the night"...

[J.C.]

These are the places (and school zones) where stationary camera units should be placed. Plenty of DH's abusing the speed limits there.
The camera would be working overtime..........