Congestion tax back on the agenda - Page 2

burnz · 02-08-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Yes but John Howard gave us a chance to vote for it.

on the proviso of removing wholesale tax, fuel levies, cartage/haulage tax, an increase if federal road funding..

what did we get? SFA...shafted.

flappist · 02-08-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

on the proviso of removing wholesale tax, fuel levies, cartage/haulage tax, an increase if federal road funding..

what did we get? SFA...shafted.

Hmm.....

Sales tax...gone
fuel levies.....lowered
black spot program and extensions to pacific/bruce/princess...implemented.

Try again comrade.

aussie muscle · 02-08-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

This is from the same Prime Minister who said there would never be any Carbon Tax under any Government that she led.....

but roads and road taxes are the domain of state governments. the feds don't have much hand in roads (except where they've put in money to the 'black spot program') apart from trucking "federal interstate" rego. i'm surprised at the number of people who blame bad hospitals and roads on julia and gov co, during the last federal election.

(they did teach this stuff when i was in school).

350125GO · 02-08-2011, 04:37 PM

I am all for it, who the hell wants to drive around the CBD anyway. The more money going to public transport the better.

Yellow_Festiva · 02-08-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350125GO

I am all for it, who the hell wants to drive around the CBD anyway. The more money going to public transport the better.

That's not really the point. For some the only viable option is to drive in to the city for whatever reason.

It's a catch 22. Transport is poor so it isn't used, therefore it isn't making much so they need to charge more. When you charge more, less people are inclined to use it.

I actually enjoy driving into the CBD..... If I stay out late I don't want to be in a train sharing a carriage with 3 people wearing hoodies. Just not safe. Plus I don't pay for CBD parking, but if I did and wanted to go out to dinner with the Mrs for a few hours our options are to drive in in comfort, park on the street or parking station for $8-12 ....... or pay roughly the same for a train ticket. I know what option I would be choosing.

Yet, when I'm in Korea you catch a train at any hour and it is packed (meaning safer as well as cheaper) and I have no probs training it back to my hotel at midnight in a somewhat inebriated state.

Look at how much money was 'invested' in the integrated rail pass they were trying to introduce in Sydney. Similar to systems that has been in place in many countries for over a decade.... I think they are up to 200 million and STILL have nothing to show for it. Pooor effort.

TheSneakiness · 02-08-2011, 04:50 PM

I did hear about this for Brisbane on one of those drivel shows about 2 weeks ago. As long as it goes back into public transport here. Costs me a feckin fortune to commute from GC to Brisbane each week so anyone else in the country who complains about the cost should come here and then also be prepared to stand up in the train 85% of the time.

I wish it was all zone 1 & 2 like Melbourne but this "system" here has 25 zones, pending how far out you are from the CBD.

I suppose my 20mb of WiFi might help in the next few weeks... [/end sarcasm]

**Giant Cranium** · 02-08-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 350125GO

I am all for it, who the hell wants to drive around the CBD anyway. The more money going to public transport the better.

tell me how i can get a ute worth of tools on a train or bus into the center of sydney city (george and market street) and ill do it.
also to big damo ive driven around melbourne cbd and the worst i saw it it was a dream to drive in. bloody sydney is worse on a sunday morning at 4am

Franco Cozzo · 02-08-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain awesome

also to big damo ive driven around melbourne cbd and the worst i saw it it was a dream to drive in. bloody sydney is worse on a sunday morning at 4am

I've never been outside of Victoria before, so I have no clue other than whats between work, in Melbourne for TAFE and home.

mik · 02-08-2011, 05:35 PM

it was not all that long ago the melb city council wanted more people in the city

, half the problem is the trains imo, they try to keep impossible timetables, the trains are only 6 carriges long, why can`t they have 50% more carriges and a slightly less impossible time table, also with each update of the trains there is less seats so they can squeeze more people in standing up, some one thats just been working their asses off all day not forgetting the older folk don`t wan`t to be standing up in cramped qaurters for 20/30.40 minutes, why the hell would you take public transport?,
if the service was better and a little cheaper i`m sure many of the commuters going into the cbd in their cars would use the train making congestion better.

cheap · 02-08-2011, 05:49 PM

Maybe a half decent regional development program which provided incentives for business to relocate.

Or maybe looking at the FBT so that fly-in-fly-out wasn't so prevalent and workers stayed onsite and their familiies relocated.

Oh no, that makes way too much sence and besides sounds like too much hard work, so in typical socialist government style, lets apply a tax.

gtxb67 · 02-08-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

In the meantime, we have people crisscrossing the city simply to go to their jobs because 'they can' causing unnecessary congestion. Make it more expensive to do that and they'll look elsewhere for employment or not consider the job that will cost them $10+ in tolls a day in the 1st place.

you aren't serious are you???? my wife is in i.t. most of the i.t. jobs are in melbourne. i work in the printing trade - most of the printing jobs are between braeside and cheltenham. should one of us change trades and then move to the appropriate area or should we just separate and then move to our own area

mik · 02-08-2011, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Yes but John Howard gave us a chance to vote for it.

that`s not how i remember it, what i remember was just before the election a journo cornered Mr Howard and asked "will there be a GST, to which he looked at the camera and replied "there will be no GST while i am PM" ....................................and now it`s 2011, the people in power have changed but the methods dealing with the citizens have not sadly.

gtxb67 · 02-08-2011, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

that`s not how i remember it, what i remember was just before the election a journo cornered Mr Howard and asked "will there be a GST, to which he looked at the camera and replied "there will be no GST while i am PM" ....................................and now it`s 2011, the people in power have changed but the methods dealing with the citizens have not sadly.

that may have been for 96 when he said that. certainly before the next election, we knew we were either voting for or against a gst. the current situation is very, very different. like eastlink for example

sudszy · 02-08-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

you aren't serious are you???? my wife is in i.t. most of the i.t. jobs are in melbourne. i work in the printing trade - most of the printing jobs are between braeside and cheltenham. should one of us change trades and then move to the appropriate area or should we just separate and then move to our own area

Im not dictating what anyone has to or doesnt have to do.

Its up to you whether you want to pay the "congestion" tax or not, the cost dictates people will rationalise where they work and where they live and indeed where people choose to set up businesses..

gtxb67 · 02-08-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

Im not dictating what anyone has to or doesnt have to do.

Its up to you whether you want to pay the "congestion" tax or not, the cost dictates people will rationalise where they work and where they live and indeed where people choose to set up businesses..

yes you are. you are suggesting that because my wife and i work in a field that requires traveling we should pay more because we need to use the road that we already pay mega dollars in taxes for - and if we do not want to pay more money in taxes, then we should either re-locate and retrain or just separate and both relocate. and then you hide behind the comment "i'm not dictating what anyone has to or doesnt(sic) have to do" - pure class, yet again

sudszy · 02-08-2011, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

yes you are. you are suggesting that because my wife and i work in a field that requires traveling we should pay more because we need to use the road that we already pay mega dollars of taxes in

So no im not dictating what you do, just politely spelling out the obvious of the congestion tax, its designed to make people look for options that dont take them through the city corridors, a decision putting the broader needs of the community first( you are welcome to argue that, but please no bleating about how much mulah its costing you).

So yes, if you want to continue what you are doing now it would be more expensive if the congestion tax went ahead

gtxb67 · 02-08-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

So yes, if you want to continue what you are doing now it would be more expensive if the congestion tax went ahead

so, do you suggest i start stacking shelves at the local supermarket or buy a house that will be almost double our current one, so i can save money in taxes. is it possible that you could think up a solution that doesn't involve costing us more and more - don't bother, i know the answer

sudszy · 02-08-2011, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

so, do you suggest i start stacking shelves at the local supermarket or buy a house that will be almost double our current one, so i can save money in taxes. is it possible that you could think up a solution that doesn't involve costing us more and more - don't bother, i know the answer

Glad you've come to the realisation that if the congestion tax were to go ahead either you absorb the cost or change what you are doing. Maybe it wont happen soon, but to believe that govco is going to continue to put more and more tunnels etc to bypass melb city is unrealistic, it would be wise to start looking ahead.

No job or income stream is for ever:http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384314,00.asp and no-one is owed a living/house in this country.
Some see change happening and others put their heads in the sand make a lot of noise......

gtxb67 · 02-08-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

No job or income stream is for ever:http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384314,00.asp and no-one is owed a living/house in this country.
Some see change happening and others put their heads in the sand make a lot of noise......

no it is a case of . . . . nothing that is untaxed now, will be tax free for ever. lucky you don't know where my piggy bank is, because you would try and tax that too

chevypower · 02-08-2011, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

Didn't John Howard say something similar about the GST???

Didn't John Howard announce that he would implement the GST if re-elected? The difference being that he had the balls to take it to an election.

burnz · 03-08-2011, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Hmm.....

Sales tax...gone
fuel levies.....lowered
black spot program and extensions to pacific/bruce/princess...implemented.

Try again comrade.

wholesale tax was 22% now 26%
lowered is a far cry from removed..fuel would have been 60cpl, should now be 78cpl not 150cpl.
pacific for us only, and still 20yrs off being finished..
cartage/haulage has remained stagnant around 12%, this is an unofficial GST as it applies to everything..

Jim Goose · 03-08-2011, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Didn't John Howard announce that he would implement the GST if re-elected? The difference being that he had the balls to take it to an election.

er NO he didnt.... he said that under his coalition there would NEVER be a GST.

flappist · 03-08-2011, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

wholesale tax was 22% now 26%
lowered is a far cry from removed..fuel would have been 60cpl, should now be 78cpl not 150cpl.
pacific for us only, and still 20yrs off being finished..
cartage/haulage has remained stagnant around 12%, this is an unofficial GST as it applies to everything..

You do live in Australia don't you......

gtxb67 · 03-08-2011, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Didn't John Howard announce that he would implement the GST if re-elected? The difference being that he had the balls to take it to an election.

yes he did. he was re-relected in 98 using the gst as the major policy. we all knew if howard was pm, we would get a gst. he did say previously he would not do it, but for the election that mattered, we knew what his plans were

in short, if australia did not want a gst, they would have voted for the other party

prydey · 03-08-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

Some see change happening and others put their heads in the sand make a lot of noise......

it obvious you are connected to the government or work for the government. the proof is the fact that you seem so far removed from the real world its not funny.

jobs are not there to pick and choose from. many people are just grateful to have a job.

do you ever sit back in your house (assuming you live in a house) and have a look around at the luxuries you may have, and wonder how they were produced or how they got to where they did?

often, those people driving to work (to produce all those nice things you own) stuck in peak hour traffic, don't do it by choice. to suggest people need to leave their jobs and try to find employment elsewhere, or even change careers.....

whatever it is you're on, it must be some seriously good gear.

sudszy · 03-08-2011, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

it obvious you are connected to the government or work for the government. the proof is the fact that you seem so far removed from the real world its not funny.

jobs are not there to pick and choose from. many people are just grateful to have a job.

do you ever sit back in your house (assuming you live in a house) and have a look around at the luxuries you may have, and wonder how they were produced or how they got to where they did?

often, those people driving to work (to produce all those nice things you own) stuck in peak hour traffic, don't do it by choice. to suggest people need to leave their jobs and try to find employment elsewhere, or even change careers.....

whatever it is you're on, it must be some seriously good gear.

your usual contribution, nothing to say other than to abuse myself: obviously the reason for a congestion tax has passed you by, have a think about it.

prydey · 03-08-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sudszy

your usual contribution, nothing to say other than to abuse myself: obviously the reason for a congestion tax has passed you by, have a think about it.

why don't you have a think about what you are saying!!!

i've been doing what i do for close to 20yrs. there are no places closer to where i live where i can do the same thing. i'm not skilled (qualified) to do anything else, so if i did choose to find employment closer to home, i would have to undergo training, which is usually multiple years, at reduced income. who would pick up the slack to pay my mortgage and support my wife and kids? should i put more burden on the government and welfare systems??

or should i sell my house and move closer to my work. we all know houses get cheaper the closer you go to the cbd now don't we!!

why don't you just have a think about what you are suggesting. maybe also have a think about whether or not fordforums is the right place for you.

new2ford · 03-08-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

what alternative transport road can any truck leaving a port in any major city take ? answer :NILL
AND AS FAR AS ROAD USAGE PAYMENTS . i thought we already had that in the form of greenslips , tolls , levies , registration, and fuel tax . along with revenue .

What, all trucks from Port Botany go through the Sydney CBD? Congestion charging relates to city centres, not entire metropolitan areas. Incidentally, Port Botany, Port Hunter and Port Kembla are all served by rail. Jooliar is putting the carbon tax on rail and public transport straight away but giving private motorists and trucks a holiday from it - which shows it is not about the environment at all, just political opportunism.

Cars shouldn't be in city centres so there will have to be some form of control developed. Parking limitation would be more subtle and more effective. That's what they do in many of the best European cities, there's no point driving to the city centre because there's simply nowhere to park. But their public transport is excellent so you can "park and ride" very effectively. I do agree the public transport has to be up to the job first - which it arguably is (at least to the CBD) in Sydney and Melbourne but not other Australian cities.

NAK302 · 03-08-2011, 09:12 AM

i was going to write something then but realised it was irrelevant to folks who live in major cities and don't really care what happens out here in the areas that actually create a fair bit of wealth for this country..
what i will write is, be happy you have at least some forms of public transport for you to "choose" your method of traversing your over crowded cities.

new2ford · 03-08-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-0733

i was going to write something then but realised it was irrelevant to folks who live in major cities and don't really care what happens out here in the areas that actually create a fair bit of wealth for this country..
what i will write is, be happy you have at least some forms of public transport for you to "choose" your method of traversing your over crowded cities.

I live in the country too. The nearest route bus is a couple of kms away although I can always flag a ride on a school bus I guess! I'm with you on your comment but we still have to address the horrible mess the cities have got themselves into because the results of that mess probably cost the country more than the wealth we put into it from the countryside! Just a cross we have to bear out here in the sticks mate!