NSW Police call for mobile speed cameras

[gtfpv]

flappist and bfiipursuit. i'll combine my answer here to flappist question .
i for one think our speed limit would be better at 140kms hr on some roads . everycar i have driven which is less than 5 years old feels like it's doing 80kms hr , when its actually sitting on 110. so i strongly relate to bfiipursuits post there .

in a direct answer to your post flappist . i have done a few straight through drives from sydney to queensland . 10 hours and was as fatigued as all ffff after it .
no doubt if the roads were up to it , i'm sure the gt would cruise at 160, shortening the trip .
however if the limit was increased now to 130 , some of us would be more alert for a while , and some of us would simply still drive non stop for 10 to 18 hours . over further distances .
my bet is fatigue levels wouldnt change .
but they would at 170. or maybe not. some people would try cairns non stop.

[fg_nitro]

Why were these unmarked mobile camera units taken off the road in the first place? I remember seeing them up until around 2005 / 2006 but not much past this.

To be honest I think most roads around this country are death traps for the common denominator. You just have to have a look at the main so call highway between NSW and QLD. Some parts are still single lane with decrepit ashfelt that has been repaired more times than some people are old.

Yet other roads like the Hume are such a pleasure to drive on it should be a crime to set the limit at a paltry 110km/h

While you have people in charge running their own agendas and looking at fixing issues but they never do, you will never, ever get resolve to this widespread and far reaching problem.

People rely on cars for transport because this is a large country and our mass transit system is not all that great.

We need a complete overhaul of the licensing & transportation authorities around the Country:

-Complete re-grading of all speed limits on all roads. Some lower some higher.

-Done by an independent person or task force that is not influenced by certain factions or government departments:

-Licensing system that incorporates more than a paper based log book.
-Similar skills test to what Motor Cycle riders go through.
-Incorporate car and driver control skills in varied situations. (Like the Safe Drive Course)

-Deal with L/P platers differently.

-Re-distribute road tax / fuel levy / rego tax into providing better roads and funding eduction rather than spending it on gross adverts. (Stop the sensationalism, provocativeness and discrimination)

At the end of the day some people are retarded on the road and should never be given the keys to a 1500kg Missile with 4 wheels.

[GT290]

I would like to see this together with a band of forum community members take it further. I would be happy to offer my support in this in anyway possible. I think its time we the community had a say and made our veiws heard. Its just not good enough for the governments to say we will fix it with speed cameras. We all know this to be a feable attempt to apease the do gooders of the community and brain wash the rest into conforming while grabbing a load of cash along the way, oh and drop the speed limit too so we catch more of them out.
Would some one like to design a pol of questions and post it and from this get a list of names or is this something the forum stays away from? Just putting it out there.

[GT290]

read the link following and at the bottom read the fellows comments in have your say. Really it just shows you what you have to deal with in this country, who are these people really?
http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/...5_opinion.html

[GT290]

read this

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/399...-speed-limits/

and this one

http://www.saferroaduse.nt.gov.au/Ro...ull_Report.pdf

[russellw]

Originally Posted by b0son

how do they define a fatigue-related crash? do they include the increased likelihood of poor decision-making? incorrect judgement? inattention?

fatigue is massively understated IMO.

One of the reasons for the widely differing research into fatigue related accidents is exactly that - the definition and the raw data.

At the 5% level the numbers are based on coroner verdicts in fatalities while at the 40% level they are based on a range of criteria that include (surviving) witness statements, police reports on single vehicle accidents and the criteria defined in overseas research.

That research has been used to set the driving hours for road transport operators and you are probably quite correct in stating that fatigue related incidents are understated in the statistics with the current slant toward speed and alcohol as causative factors.

The US and European research indicates that the figure is probably closer to the 40% level and slightly higher for the road transport industry but that doesn't really fit into the current political and revenue raising agenda so it will no doubt continue to be ignored.

Cheers
Russ

[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

flappist and bfiipursuit. i'll combine my answer here to flappist question .
i for one think our speed limit would be better at 140kms hr on some roads . everycar i have driven which is less than 5 years old feels like it's doing 80kms hr , when its actually sitting on 110. so i strongly relate to bfiipursuits post there .

in a direct answer to your post flappist . i have done a few straight through drives from sydney to queensland . 10 hours and was as fatigued as all ffff after it .
no doubt if the roads were up to it , i'm sure the gt would cruise at 160, shortening the trip .
however if the limit was increased now to 130 , some of us would be more alert for a while , and some of us would simply still drive non stop for 10 to 18 hours . over further distances .
my bet is fatigue levels wouldnt change .
but they would at 170. or maybe not. some people would try cairns non stop.

So what you are saying is that you have driven long a distance at a speed that you did not wish to travel and were very tired at the end of it.
You have not stated that you have ever travelled long distance at high speed so I infer that you have never done so.

So you have no idea whatsoever what travelling at high speed is like nor do you have any idea what traveling on a road that is not carrying constant and heavy traffic is like.

e.g. last time I drove from Mt Isa to Charters towers (almost 1000km) there were 26 cars going the other way, I counted them.

Your basis for your argument is that people who normally drive for extended periods would continue to do so and just travel further rather than get to their destination earlier and more refreshed?

Those who are driving from Sydney to Cairns are DRIVING FROM SYDNEY TO CAIRNS. Those who are driving from Sydney to Melbourne or Sydney to Brisbane

If someone is stupid enough to drive for 18 hours at 170km/h then why would they not drive for 18 hours two days running at a lower speed?

In every country in the world in the last several decades EVERY TIME the speed limit was increased the road toll dropped.

And do you know what is the most unimpeachable evidence that this the case?

If it were not the screaming wowsers and armchair experts would be quoting the example at every opportunity.

The problem is perception.

If you live is a city you see roads covered with cars and when you venture out of the city it is on an arterial road usually during a holiday period when the roads are overloaded with other people who are not used to being outside a city.

Those who commonly travel in remote and regional areas have a different view.

Just because travelling at over 100km/h on the Pacific Highway on the easter weekend is dangerous DOES NOT mean that travelling at over 100km/h on the Capricorn or Barkly or Stuart or across the Nullabor on an ordinary sunny day is dangerous.

Landing an aircraft in your front yard is probably not a good idea in Sydney. This does not mean the the thousands of private strips all over the country should be closed.

Unfortunately all of this is relatively pointless. The incompetent idiots that are constantly re-elected have discovered the cash cow of speed cameras.
Like gambling and cigarettes, there is too much revinue to lose by solving the problem.
In the same way, the real problems such as fatigue, unroadworthy vehicles and incompetent driving skill will NEVER be solved.

Try and remove all old cars and there will be screaming and yelling and gnashing of teeth.
Try and make everyone attend advanced driving courses and resit their license every year or two will do the same.

I suspect it will not be long before the state limits are 90. There are already many roads in QLD that are 90 limit rather than 100.
One in particular, Nambour-Kunda Park is 4 lanes separated by fences and a large culvet with no entrances, exits or "Official U turns". It is directly connected to the 110 zone on the Bruce Hwy.

Why is it 90? I believe it is due to purely political agenda and no other reason.

While the average idiot believes the propaganda he sees on TV rather than actually experiencing it himself THEY will just keep pushing us.

[EgoFG]

I don't get out of town anywhere as much as I would like, and here is one observation based on 20 years of driving.

Cars bunch up a LOT more than they used to.
Overtaking lanes don't work as there is very little (legal) speed differential.
People, as a result, do not worry about the Keep Left rule (Even the 'keep centre' on three lanes does not happen - the rule is keep left - people used to keep centre, now - they do not care)

These problems do cause accidents,
These problems are a direct result of speed limits that are too low.

[GT290]

Flappist, wells said and exactly my sentiments. There has just been another thread posted regarding qld replacing wet film system for digital and thus allowing the system to operate with a much lower tolerence of 3 klm rather than the 10 klm.
Another example of what you are saying. In other countries drivers are more relaxed because they are not hounded as we are with our speed. This country is going off the rails with every thing at the moment and somthing needs to be done, people need to start standing up for them selves.As you point out flappist, if they took the old bangers off the roads the whole country would squeel like pigs but slowly drain their pockets of a litlle cash, seems to be ok. Are we all total morons in this country that can be shat on when ever it suits? It seems so and its getting worse

[GT290]

yep!!

[djjase]

Well it doesnt seem to be speed now:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/risk-...0104-lp7f.html

"A number of those (deaths) did involve alcohol, a number involved drivers and passengers not wearing seatbelts and some involved speed," he said

[GT290]

Originally Posted by djjase

Well it doesnt seem to be speed now:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/risk-...0104-lp7f.html

"A number of those (deaths) did involve alcohol, a number involved drivers and passengers not wearing seatbelts and some involved speed," he said

Would seem that some do not learn from experiance either, two aged 60!

[durtyharry]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

However biggest difference is that that you site link is from and independent group. .

Independent of the government, well yes, impartial and looking at all the evidence, no.
They the ABD are just another band of internet motoring enthusiasts with the same general mantra of the motorist is getting shafted by the government:

Speed limits too low, fuel tax, not enough money spent on the roads, global warming is a hoax, the usual.

They haven't researched the data and have not countered the authorities claims. They have only thrown in their 85th percentile logic. The only thing it actually shows is that their is a higher chance of collision if there is large speed differentials to the majority of the traffic. It DOESNT show that the speed that the 85th percentile is travelling at is the safest speed to travel at.

The 85th percentile is determined by many factors: the speed that people drive at that they feel they wont get a ticket and/or licence cancellation, or what they feel is safe.

Dont know about you, but the number of people that rubbish the wipe off 5km/h claim and dispute the speed at which the car doing 65km/h hits the pedestrian worries me deeply, and we want these same people deciding what the speed limit should be?

Its about as sensible as getting the passengers on a plane to vote for what they think is the safe takeoff weight and disregard what the engineers say.

In regards to the increase in the NT tolls, the medics are at pain to tell us that casualties on the new limited roads have actually dropped and dont want the limits repealed.
They have a vested interest in lieing here, they wont more bodies to mend?, like there is a surplus of doctors in the NT?

[durtyharry]

Originally Posted by flappist

In every country in the world in the last several decades EVERY TIME the speed limit was increased the road toll dropped.

And do you know what is the most unimpeachable evidence that this the case?
.

Please tell us, not the 55mph to 65mph in the states?, but that wasnt the last few decades, and 65mph only puts them at 104km/h. Have a look in WA when they raised the limit to 70mph in the sixties.

In Aus the data says otherwise, NT included, as well as the dropped suburban limits and 40km/h limits outside schools have reduced casualties also. The drivers needed this guidance, most I observed never slowed down to 40km/h outside schools unless the traffic forced them too.

[388cube_edxr8]

Originally Posted by GT290

I would like to see this together with a band of forum community members take it further. I would be happy to offer my support in this in anyway possible. I think its time we the community had a say and made our veiws heard. Its just not good enough for the governments to say we will fix it with speed cameras. We all know this to be a feable attempt to apease the do gooders of the community and brain wash the rest into conforming while grabbing a load of cash along the way, oh and drop the speed limit too so we catch more of them out.
Would some one like to design a pol of questions and post it and from this get a list of names or is this something the forum stays away from? Just putting it out there.

I am 100% behind you on that on mate.

[GT290]

Yesterday I drove to parkes and returned, same day. I had three stops on the way up and arrived fresh as a daisy. I made the return trip and doubled the stops with one of them being an hours kip. No fatigue or micro sleeps at all.
My cars speedo reads 8 klms slower than the GPS so I drive to the GPS and push it a couple k's over now and then. I had one Vic cop pass me and I passed another. I never backed off from the GPS speed which read 1-2 k's over the whole way except when I pushed it further.
I passed two on comming cars at different times that were suspect in that they were veering to the wrong side of the road. I overtook one doing the same. All in all a pretty safe trip.
On the return and when the sun went down I was confronted with people who either changed the type of light in there car so that the low beam was still blinding me and others with over loaded vehicles so it made no difference in low beam anyway. Now others including most of the trusks had their lights how they should be and it was no problem but the others its very blinding to the point you have to slow down, right down if you are comming into a corner.
I saw one NSW Highway patrol car between Forbes and Parkes
I saw one NSW cop at Forbes on the return doing a breatho and lic check and nothing els the whole trip. three weeks ago I did the same trip and never saw a cop in NSW at all both ways and Vic there was two sitting on the hume going up but nothing on the return.
My pont I guess is the running around with radars and not enough of pinging important safety issues that are more likely to cause an accident than the guy doing 10 or 12 K's over the posted limit.

[ebxr8240]

The problem is people drive on the open road like they do in the city..
I often drive long distances.. I find passing the odd car keeps my attention and alertness.. That's not saying I speed..
Drivers don't relent to let other cars in like at merging lanes etc.. It's best to change lanes and let them in and move on..Or ease up for a second.. Same with cars and trucks.. Tell ya people who drive cars should drive a truck for a couple of days.. There attitude will change!! DON"T change lanes infront of a truck and don't pull out in front of one!! Unless you have PLENTY of room !!
I have just driven from Loss Angeles, Mexico, back to Los Vegas then across U.S to Chicago in 16 days...

[Falcon_Crazy]

On a return trip from melbourne Boxing Day holiday, there were 5 camera cars between Warragul and Cann River - not one single cop, iether marked or unmarked. Appalling way to patrol the roads whcih were full of typical holiday makers - eitehr driving under the limit until overtakling lanes, or drivng like fools cause its the only time they drive on highways.

Once back in NSW, from Cooma to Umina, i saw no less than 10 highway patrol officers and drivers were well bahaved, keeping left (for most part) and not afraid todo more than 4km/h over the posted limit (unlike the mexicans)

Im all for visible HP cars on the roads, tageting drivers not driving to local conditions. Im all for more vaiable speed limits on our Freeways and major highways. Im tired of stats being manipulated by gov.com and media to target speed as the major cause of accidents.

EVERY accident involves speed - but that box that isticked, is ticked if the estamiated speed of the vehicle was deemed to be "inappropriate for the prevailing conditions". Ive seen otehr reseach where it is around 5-9% of accidents that are caused by "Exceeding the posted speed limit".

All of this info can be obtained from various governments under freedom of info laws.

I can go past a speed camera, under or on the limit drunk, asleep, affected by drugs, talking or texting on my mobile or engaing in other distracting behaviour which would, i witnessed by a HP Officer, result in being pulled over, questioned and possibly fined.

getting off me soap box now

[merlin]

Notice that 99% of road deaths through the Dec/Jan period happened out in woop woop on the highway (and usually involved hitting a truck) not actually in Sydney itself.

It is drivers used to driving 40km/h around the suburbs suddenly driving on a one lane highway at 100+ trying to overtake B doubles over double whites in their 1.6 litre Getz that is causing the deaths. Hidden speed cameras in the suburbs/CBD is not going to solve the problem. Upgrading the highways to dual carriageway at a minimum will.

I am absolutly sick of the Police telling people to slow down and blaming every accident on speed - I spend a LOT of time on the road and RARELY do I see a fully marked police car pulling someone over (which I fully support). Its bedlem out on the Sydney streets as people know you can go hours without seeing a highway patrol, its a free-for-all.

Sydney drivers all slow down for the cameras, then its warp drive again when your 20 metres past it. A P plater in an XR6 went past me yesterday, I would estimate at 100km/h+ on Victoria Rd (60km/h speed limit) . He hit the brakes for both cameras though. Only an actual copper in a car would have stopepd him, not more stupid cameras.

[Falcon_Crazy]

Originally Posted by merlin

. A P plater in an XR6 went past me yesterday, I would estimate at 100km/h+ on Victoria Rd (60km/h speed limit) . He hit the brakes for both cameras though. Only an actual copper in a car would have stopepd him, not more stupid cameras.

Exactly - driving at those speeds on Victoria road is compeletly inappropriate for the conditions and you are so right that it would only be a copper that would stop him. Even if eh did get a fine in the mail, it doesnt come with a stern talk from a HP Officer which may have made him poo his pants as well and run home crying for Mummy...

A mate who is a HP officer reckons its the dicussion with drivers that has the bigger impact, especially if they have been driving like a tool..

[GT290]

Stopped at Henty last night and got a famous bacon and egg roll, mmmm bloody nice it was. I got the localpaper from wagga and in it was the following

1. A car six months out of rego was being driven to get a blue slip by its drink driving owner and the blue slip excuse was a bit of a lie any way.

2. An unlicenced driver caught, never had a licence for ten years. Driving because she was stood over and forced to.

3. 24 year old was a 2 time drink driver. got sentenced 6 month disqualified. I though it was jail on the third time or a lot longer disqualified.

Thats just three from one local paper. My point is that a speed camera never caught these people. How many more are doing exactly what these people are.
The same paper said police released the names of the two travelling from sydney Mildura. Both were in their 60's and were killed when their car crossed the road and slammed into a tree. Fatigue is beleived to be the cause of the crash.

I do not see sence in spending dollars to simply make more dollars on a system that clearly has no positve safe outcomes in its contribution to saving lives and reducing injury on our country roads.

[fg_nitro]

Originally Posted by flappist

While the average idiot believes the propaganda he sees on TV rather than actually experiencing it himself THEY will just keep pushing us.

Enough said and times that by 20 odd million that is a lot of to push up a hill.

It's a loosing battle for common sense.