Ford's policy on oil leak in FG F6

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

All you guys love getting on the 'bash ford bandwagon' dont you, seriously, I dont know what the problem is... Ford or the dealer have NOT said that they wont rectify the issue, its just that ford wants to see proof of a defective part before they pay the dealer to start pulling apart a motor JEEZ!
Most likely ford will get back to the dealer and tell them to go ahead with the repair and everyone goes home happy, except some of the people on these forums because they wont have something to complain about it seems.

No point bringing common sense in to these types of threads.... they just want to get the torches and pitchforks out.
Its easier to just jump up and down and scream than wait a day (or a week) to get the answer....
(remembering we are talkig about a leak - not an engine failure)

My all time fav was the AU throttle cable grommet..... Ford sent out the Recall before telling the dealers (esp Spare Parts) about it.
We had people rocking up on the Monday wanting the grommet replaced. - We ordered 100 in an air-bag and only 15 arrived, we re-ordered again, only to find they went straight on to Backorder.
So, of course, we couldn't do anything.... I was threatened and one woman even spat at me.... all for a grommet that 'might' have failed.
(and in all cases I know of - didn't)

All dealers, due to the good 'ol Global Eco 'crisis', are trying to slow up warranty claims. To stop the bogus claims some dealers try and sneak through.
They have even started asking for large parts to be sent back to the plant, things like tailshafts and exhausts - stuff that used to go straight to scrap.....


I think some people really need to spend a week working in a Dealership (any brand) and see just what a hassle everything can be these days.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DJL351

They have even started asking for large parts to be sent back to the plant, things like tailshafts and exhausts - stuff that used to go straight to scrap.....

Ford have been asking for part to be sent back for a while now (they actually want to see the parts as it can help explain why they fail), unfortunately dealers don't seem to like doing this which holds up analysis on common failed parts.

[LTDterri]

I really dont care what Ford or Dealers think and if it seems like too much hard work for the dealer looking at the issue then the person should get out of the game cause they have obviously gone stale. Call it what you will a leak a weep what ever, oil is coming out of somewhere where it shouldn't, the car is under warranty so fix it. For many people a vehicle is one of their biggest investments so they are understandibly wanting that thing to work like it was expected to. Ford/dealers are just trying to save money and put things off hoping they will get worse after the warranty expires and wash their hand of it. Keep at them Pedro the F6 is an expensive piece of machinery, a leak, weep whatever you have every right to expect your car to be right. To all those who think we are Ford bashing, if Ford looked after it's customers we would'nt have to. To Ford and the dealer net work wake up before you become part of history.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by DJL351

No point bringing common sense in to these types of threads.... they just want to get the torches and pitchforks out.
Its easier to just jump up and down and scream than wait a day (or a week) to get the answer....
(remembering we are talkig about a leak - not an engine failure)

My all time fav was the AU throttle cable grommet..... Ford sent out the Recall before telling the dealers (esp Spare Parts) about it.
We had people rocking up on the Monday wanting the grommet replaced. - We ordered 100 in an air-bag and only 15 arrived, we re-ordered again, only to find they went straight on to Backorder.
So, of course, we couldn't do anything.... I was threatened and one woman even spat at me.... all for a grommet that 'might' have failed.
(and in all cases I know of - didn't)

All dealers, due to the good 'ol Global Eco 'crisis', are trying to slow up warranty claims. To stop the bogus claims some dealers try and sneak through.
They have even started asking for large parts to be sent back to the plant, things like tailshafts and exhausts - stuff that used to go straight to scrap.....


I think some people really need to spend a week working in a Dealership (any brand) and see just what a hassle everything can be these days.

Top post mate, and spot on.

When once dropping my car off, I once saw a lady scream and carry on over a festiva left brake light. She abused the hell out of the service advisor, even after he explained that they'd replaced the right side brake light, not the left. She kept carrying on that it shouldn't fail regardless, what kind of cars where they building blah blah; this is the kind of customer that makes dealers want evidence before attempting warranty claims.

BTW, in her attempt to garner support for her obviously spurious claim, she made the proclaimation that "fords cars are rubbish, they just shouldn't do this". I politely went over and told her she looks foolish because the globe she was screaming about had not been replaced, the other side had. Becoming obviously aware of her untenable position she maintained the rage, and demanded to see a manager (and this is over a $3.00 part).
Once the manager was brought up to speed she abused him, his mother indirectly, and all and sundry. He politely told her to leave. She refused so more forcefully he said they wouldn't service her car there and to leave before they called the police. Well, after hearing a few words that rhymed with blunts and threats of consumer affairs etc, she left.

Now, this is the sort of customer a dealer gets that makes everyones job hard, and spoils it for those who have legitimate warranty claims. Whilst I don't dispute the seriousness of the OP's concerns, if it doesn't leak on their driveway after a couple of hours Ford is going to knock the warranty claim back. Once the leak gets more serious, they'll obviously fix it.
Frustrating I know, but Ford dealers have to put up with a lot of spurious claims for warranty, and Ford is getting suspicious; rightly so.
I have been shown an FG with BF parts on it trying to claim warranty.
I have seen customers complain when the struts they had fitted 300,000klm ago are worn, and demand new ones be fitted free of charge (taxi drivers).

Annoying, but I can understand fords point.

[mcnews]

So a polite and understanding customer should put up with oil leaks and feel sorry for the poor dealer?

I think there are quite a few here that have experience in automotive retail and the industry as a whole at all levels and really bringing screaming women and light globes into this debate brings nothing to it.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by mcnews

So a polite and understanding customer should put up with oil leaks and feel sorry for the poor dealer?

I think there are quite a few here that have experience in automotive retail and the industry as a whole at all levels and really bringing screaming women and light globes into this debate brings nothing to it.

BTW, how do you know he was polite and understanding? Myself in his shoes, I'd be peeved

I was trying to illustrate what kind of claims ford service advisors are subjected to daily; how customers expect the best service but don't want to pay for it. This happens at EVERY dealership, and VERY often.
Then, the OP walks in with a legitimate complaint about his new F6, and is treated as though he is trying to defraud them of something. Not fair, I agree, is discretionary I agree, but does happen quite often.

Further, another reason ford could be on guard is that there are a very large number of written off cars that are being bought interstate, fixed up and then sent to ford for warranty claims. Some dealers got the claims through, whereas some were rather lapsed in their judgement and did the warranty work routinely before filing the application with Ford, and were burnt.

[Smoke Pursuit]

The problem is this is a common well known issue, we had the same drama with our F6X. For should have the cars tehy know are affected preapproved for repairs, and just have dealers rectify them.. They know which cars are affected btw! Why waste the customers time by making them bring the car back at a later date when your going to fix it neways. Its all about customer service, something Ford really struggles with from time to time!

To have a brand new car with 5000 kms leak oil on ur garage floor is bad enough without been screwed around to get it repaired... :

[mcnews]

I just really feel for these poor buggers as I would be well distraught if I had just laid out on another F6 only to have these sorts of dramas. It is not the fault itself, just the inconvenience of it all.

I have only had one really pleasing dealing during any servicing I have had done at Ford. I took my BF F6 in for it's 60,000km service, not all that long ago actually, I was in a rush when I dropped it off so didn't tell them what I already knew, as in I knew battery was on way out, I knew brake fluid was rooted. They picked up both of them, to my astonishment, also said the diff oil was a little low, they picked up a tiny pin leak in a power steering line. When rung I was so shocked to actually see that someone had done their job properly, told them to do change/flush diff, brake fluid and they did the power steering line on warranty... I said I would organise battery and pads which they also said needed doing. When I went to pick it up I asked to meet the guy who did the work I told the blokes at the counter that the bloke that worked on my car should train the others, and you know what he was the apprentice! That apprentice will be the one that does the services on the F6 and Territory from now on, that's for sure.

[ltd]

bfiipursuit, it guess it also depends if it is the selling dealer he took it back to. I took mine back to where I bought it with a little sweating around the hp power steering hose and the level slightly under the MIN mark, and they replaced the hose without question.
That being said, an F6 was in there for an oil leak and was awaiting approval from ford. I asked if I'd have to wait if mine leaked and was told "No". from that I can deduce that it is one of three things;

1/ History with the dealer (in my case many years)
2/ Relationship with the dealer (in my case all good)
3/ Car is identifiable as being sold by same dealer.

[LTDterri]

Sorry ltd but both I and my father in law have had these issues and returned the vehicles to the selling dealer that I have had a 20 year history with and were treated with contempt, My father in law chose to rant and get upset to get his new XR6t fixed I chose to vote with my feet, I wrote the dealer principal a letter advising of my disgust, got the car fixed at a good dealership that was recommended from this forum and recently gave my hard earned to another dealer. Do your checks that's fine but if its clear then fix the car no BS. And to show how much this dealer cared about my business they didn't even bother replying to my letter

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I have only had one really pleasing dealing during any servicing I have had done at Ford. I took my BF F6 in for it's 60,000km service, not all that long ago actually, I was in a rush when I dropped it off so didn't tell them what I already knew, as in I knew battery was on way out, I knew brake fluid was rooted. They picked up both of them, to my astonishment, also said the diff oil was a little low, they picked up a tiny pin leak in a power steering line. When rung I was so shocked to actually see that someone had done their job properly, told them to do change/flush diff, brake fluid and they did the power steering line on warranty... I said I would organise battery and pads which they also said needed doing. When I went to pick it up I asked to meet the guy who did the work I told the blokes at the counter that the bloke that worked on my car should train the others, and you know what he was the apprentice! That apprentice will be the one that does the services on the F6 and Territory from now on, that's for sure.

By the way, the dealership was site sponsor, Etheridge Ford.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by mcnews

By the way, the dealership was site sponsor, Etheridge Ford.

+1 for Etheridge Ford service, after 4 new Fords over 8 years i can honestly say they're the best Dealer i've ever delt with, im not saying there hasn't been some negotiations from time to time but after putting up with Holden (4 dealers over 10 years and heaps of problems too numerous to mention) and Mazda's rubbish service (stole money from the car and didn't perform duties charged for) these guys are excellent, every bit as good as the Mercedes dealer i've used.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford have been asking for part to be sent back for a while now (they actually want to see the parts as it can help explain why they fail), unfortunately dealers don't seem to like doing this which holds up analysis on common failed parts.

True - in WA (IIRC), it was less so, due to the costs involved to ship the stuff back.

My understanding however, is that they've changed their tact - while they've always called back parts that had 'odd' issues, or when chasing bigger faults, they are now calling back parts simply to check that the part was

A) Changed
B) With the correct model/vehicle

I know of a used car dept that would replace leaking radiators under warranty, by finding a car, that still had warranty left and making the claim on that vehicle.
Now this, obviously; saved the Used Car Manager a fair amount of money... but cost Ford.



Now, lets move on slightly...
Some of Ford's campaigns/TSB etc actually state that the weeping/leaking nut/bolt sould be checked and re-tensioned, wiped down and sent out.
Even though, we knew that the car would be back inside 2 weeks, we did as we were instructed, because, we'd already been shafted before.

Having not followed Ford's process and just replacing the part outright, the warranty claims were rejected, costing the dealer money. (labor and parts)
So, after having about a dozen claims kicked back, all techs were told to follow the campaign/tsb to the letter.


Back to the OP; what if the instructions given to the dealer in this case were to document and notify Ford?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Pedro

I noticed a film of oil on the head next to the power steering pump on my FG F6 and a small pool on the garage floor. I took it to my local dealer and they agreed that their is a leak from the timing cover (due to over-length locating bolts.

This problem has been posted before, but I was astounded when they told me they had taken photos of the leak and forwarded them to Ford for "approval to be rectified". AND, if there had not been a drip hanging off the bodywork, then Ford would not pass it!!!

So much for their much vaunted “Customer Care”!!

That's gotta get up your goat. Betcha weren't warned that oil leaks had to defy gravity and migrate from the floor to the bodywork for a valid warranty claim, before you handed over the cash. Did they fix it in the end?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by LTDterri

Sorry ltd but both I and my father in law have had these issues and returned the vehicles to the selling dealer that I have had a 20 year history with and were treated with contempt, My father in law chose to rant and get upset to get his new XR6t fixed I chose to vote with my feet, I wrote the dealer principal a letter advising of my disgust, got the car fixed at a good dealership that was recommended from this forum and recently gave my hard earned to another dealer. Do your checks that's fine but if its clear then fix the car no BS. And to show how much this dealer cared about my business they didn't even bother replying to my letter

Mate, it's a pity that you're in Vic. If in Sydney I could send you to Jorge at Dale Ford and he'd fix it right up for you. The foreman Peter is also exceptionally good and tends to want the cars to only go there with the same problem once. Etheridge ford sounds just as good though, if not too far away maybe try them.

[Kieron]

Thats unusual. I have a small oil leak out the back of the head on my FG XR8, only knew it because it sometimes drips onto the header and burns, it was warrentable.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by DJL351

True - in WA (IIRC), it was less so, due to the costs involved to ship the stuff back.

My understanding however, is that they've changed their tact - while they've always called back parts that had 'odd' issues, or when chasing bigger faults, they are now calling back parts simply to check that the part was

A) Changed
B) With the correct model/vehicle

I know of a used car dept that would replace leaking radiators under warranty, by finding a car, that still had warranty left and making the claim on that vehicle.
Now this, obviously; saved the Used Car Manager a fair amount of money... but cost Ford.

I've heard very similar stories like that too, and as the dealers tend to be independent of Ford Aus some are only too happy to replace parts at Fords expense.

[ltd]

One other thing actually that I was told and some other guys could verify, is that warranty work is not as profitable as normal servicing, and ford only pays for the minimal labour charge

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by ltd

One other thing actually that I was told and some other guys could verify, is that warranty work is not as profitable as normal servicing, and ford only pays for the minimal labour charge

In most cases - yes.

I've seen supid stuff that takes some 15 minutes to fix get 1.5 hours worth of warranty labor..... and stupidly difficult jobs that can take hours get less than 1 hour worth of labor.

In most workshops, there are incentive programs for the Techs to earn a little extra cash (upselling). You can't upsell a warranty job.... so most times the Techs don't like doing these jobs either.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by DJL351

In most cases - yes.

I've seen supid stuff that takes some 15 minutes to fix get 1.5 hours worth of warranty labor..... and stupidly difficult jobs that can take hours get less than 1 hour worth of labor.

In most workshops, there are incentive programs for the Techs to earn a little extra cash (upselling). You can't upsell a warranty job.... so most times the Techs don't like doing these jobs either.

Thanks mate, I thought as much, just wasn't 100% clear on it.

As for the onselling, I'm sure everyone can remember the brake fluid flushes and the coolant flushes.

[Sam_Boss260]

Pedro, not wanting to mention names here, but was this your regular dealer in Brissy, or someone else down the coast.

I have had some pretty good dealing with my dealer here in Brissy, and when there was an issue with warranty work, the dealer was straight up and said that Ford Aust had to approve it, so he gave me the information and I called Ford Customer Care and took it up with them. They sorted everything and approved it for me.

So maybe call Customer Care?

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Wally

That's gotta get up your goat. Betcha weren't warned that oil leaks had to defy gravity and migrate from the floor to the bodywork for a valid warranty claim, before you handed over the cash. Did they fix it in the end?

Turn it up Wally! It's only been nine days. LOL
I haven't heard anything from them.

Had it been my wife's Mazda SP23, I think the problem would have been addressd on the day. I say "think" because after 80,000 kms the Mazda's never been back for anything other than scheduled service.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Sam_Boss260

Pedro, not wanting to mention names here, but was this your regular dealer in Brissy, or someone else down the coast.

I have had some pretty good dealing with my dealer here in Brissy, and when there was an issue with warranty work, the dealer was straight up and said that Ford Aust had to approve it, so he gave me the information and I called Ford Customer Care and took it up with them. They sorted everything and approved it for me.

So maybe call Customer Care?

No Sam, it wasn't the Brisbane Dealer. As they're 80 kms from me I decided to try the dealer at Miami who has been good attending to some other problems for me.

Talking about "Ford Customer Care", I sent them an e-mail asking when I might expect a compendium for my F6 I bought 10 months ago last October. A dipstick phoned me back ten days later and asked what was my home address. I said, if you have my phone number, you must have my address. He said he would like me to confirm it. I said no, tell me what address you have. He read out my correct address, to which I replied .. soooo ... if you have my address, why haven't you sent the compendium. He was at a loss to reply.

Nothing changes at FPV! ... still treating customers like enemies.

[Joshvee]

I must say im really supprised to hear about all this stuff. Dealers ripping Ford off, Ford cheating customers (the long bolts bit) this is shocking. I now see why FPVs and HSVs are not seen as the unique works of art they should be. Even their manufacturers treat them like mass made rubbish. I guess the quest for the all mighty dollar blinds the pride in your product.

Like with the oil leaks due to the long bolts when they stopped using gaskets.... err why didnt they just change to shorter bolts? duhhhh! I would have thought it would have been a no brainer.

So because of bad dealers who cheat ford the honest customer who invests a tonn of money to purchace the best that ford has to offer, has to suffer? thats sad.

And all this talk about "u want good service but dont want to pay for it" well i did pay for it... when i bought the car. It's called a warranty. which warrants that there is nothing wrong with my car and that anything that does go wrong will be fixed for 3 yrs or 100,000 km.
FPVs are marketed and sold as High performance vehicles and I expect them to do just that. (mine is having a performance issue at the moment)

this is all new news to me. If I had known all this b4, i dont think I would have bought one. Naaaaa i still would have lol.

[4Vman]

At a guess id say the "bolt" length issue is to stop the rocker being pressed hard against the head face and squeezing all the compound out or warping the rocker...
The problem as such is the inconsistency of the bead of sealant.

[Joshvee]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

At a guess id say the "bolt" length issue is to stop the rocker being pressed hard against the head face and squeezing all the compound out or warping the rocker...
The problem as such is the inconsistency of the bead of sealant.

yea that makes sence.... so why remove the gasket in the first place?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Joshvee

yea that makes sence.... so why remove the gasket in the first place?

Money? inconsistent seal??

[Joshvee]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Money? inconsistent seal??

hmmm ok... so how do other car companies do it...

I mean the I6 is what... 40 yrs old? and they still cant get it right?

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Pedro

Turn it up Wally! It's only been nine days. LOL
I haven't heard anything from them.

Had it been my wife's Mazda SP23, I think the problem would have been addressd on the day. I say "think" because after 80,000 kms the Mazda's never been back for anything other than scheduled service.

Did they explain why the timing cover screws were overlength? The receiving holes aren't tapped in far enough?

I could understand a rocker cover weeping if incorrectly torqued, but timing covers are fairly passive. From my observation the 4.0 is a messy engine when it comes to oil film though.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Pedro

No Sam, it wasn't the Brisbane Dealer. As they're 80 kms from me I decided to try the dealer at Miami who has been good attending to some other problems for me.

Talking about "Ford Customer Care", I sent them an e-mail asking when I might expect a compendium for my F6 I bought 10 months ago last October. A dipstick phoned me back ten days later and asked what was my home address. I said, if you have my phone number, you must have my address. He said he would like me to confirm it. I said no, tell me what address you have. He read out my correct address, to which I replied .. soooo ... if you have my address, why haven't you sent the compendium. He was at a loss to reply.

Nothing changes at FPV! ... still treating customers like enemies.

It took me approximately 6 months, multiple calls to dealer and fpv before I received my compendium. One would think for a vehicle that is supposed to be above the standard models, that the customers would get a little better treatment, but that is not the case.

As for the leak, I have been lucky and don't have that one, but due to cheap fitting not holding on oil bleeder pipe did have leak up there, which the dealer did promptly fix.

And as for Ford saying it is not a leak unless there is oil on the vehicle I remember with my BA, Ford were trying to say the rust in the boot was not rust. Ford, like all other car manufacturers, are the same as mobile phones, none of them work right, just varying levels of unreliability.