What V8 for circuit race car?

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

A 20b ??

Expensive conversion but one I seriously considered 18 months ago.

I just want pistons again

[KPOJ]

How many horsies are you after walt?

[toyocharged]

Liam we are reading the same posts , a guy on another website is a bit of a LS guru and recommends a L98 over the LS2.

[KPOJ]

Im going mad researching John. L98 was the upgrade of the older spec L76. But these things are so confusing. LS1/LS2/Gen1/Gen2/Gen3/L76/L98 can someone explain these to me.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by KPOJ

Im going mad researching John. L98 was the upgrade of the older spec L76. But these things are so confusing. LS1/LS2/Gen1/Gen2/Gen3/L76/L98 can someone explain these to me.

They're all chev's and all sound like they're on 7 cyls!!!
Worst sounding V8 ever made due to their firing order.

[f1tzy]

Gen3 is essentially the ls1, gen 4 is the l76 6.0 which was used in the later vz's and still has the dod (displacement on demand) hardware but its disabled and the l98 which is the 6.0 used in the ve's. The ls2 is hsv's previous 6.0 motor which has been replaced by the ls3 6.2.

The pick of the motors is the ls3 followed by the l98 which has better flowing heads than the ls2 (more power for same mods). Have you thought about and ls7 crate motor?

[f1tzy]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

They're all chev's and all sound like they're on 7 cyls!!!
Worst sounding V8 ever made due to their firing order.

amen to that

[toyocharged]

I reckon give dale a call mate, shouldn't really say this but bang for buck the LS engines are hard to beat. Also walt and liam I think Sams Performance built (choppos) Steve Cooks car engine it has got impressive HP and durability.

[FreddyDUZ747]

I have a VE SS 6ltr motor minus manifold,coils,throttlebody and injectors.The motor has 0kms and has waterpump ect.Heads are brand new with factory roller rockers and covers.Looking at around 1500$.Most of the parts that have been kept would need to be upgraded anyway.food for thought.

gilmore

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

They're all chev's and all sound like they're on 7 cyls!!!
Worst sounding V8 ever made due to their firing order.

[Ghiadude]

Sell your rx7, buy an MX5 for 5 k put said LS with dry sump in MX5 spend 10k on brakes/suspension then make your mates 1:02 look like a walk in the park. Its what i plan to do when i get the dough together.

[Ghiadude]

go here for a conversion kit
http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?...0%20F1990-1997

[KPOJ]

Problem with an mx5 is that their built to have a 1.8L N/A engine. A bloke in melbourne has a very fast turbo one, it tears its self apart. Spindles at breaking point ect.. it has even tore the floorpan in places from fatigue.

[Walt Kowalski]

Thanks again everybody.

GTPowner you are spot on. Thats why at this stage it is an L series Chev.

schnoods: Yes EFI it will be thank you.

4Vman: Thanks. It is just one of the many rules in the CAMS Bureaucracy. Now firing order. Is that why they sound like that? Agreee the sound of most Ford's is nicer but sound is not really a priority here as you know. Just a bonus. And the worst V8 sound still rocks over a rotary.

KPOJ: Not sure about how many horses. Don't even bet on the Melbourne Cup. But it will be a 1200ishKG car with the 4 speed sequentialised Jerico, L series V8. No serious sports sedan. Currently runs a 4.3 diff with a KAZZ 1.5 LSD. May be strong enough there not sure if I have to upgrade diff. Currently not much torque from the 13B just lag and then hang on boy.

fitzy. A BIG THANK YOU. LS3 it might be at this stage. You have clarified what is really a minefield of "L's". Love the idea of 7 litres but as well as the CAMS thingy would it be an overkill? Of me I mean. How would I handle a 6 litre is the question. But 7 litres sounds awesome WHOAAA! Jesus? I hope that's you there standing in the light. fitzy, you assume I could drive it. Not so sure at this end.

toyocharged. THANK YOU for all your considered research. Now who the heck is Dale? I watch his mate Chip on that Foose show.

gilmore I have no idea if this SS item is any good for me. Any comments anyone? Is this what I want? Sounds like an amazing spare for $1500.

Ghiadude. Are you serious? Did you read my original post? I don't have an RX-7. I have a sorted RX-7 race car. It would cost another $60k to get an MX5 body to where my RX-7 already is. My RX-7 has already competed successfully with the turbo MX5 which won the State Championship in 2007 and 2008 with 2 excellent drivers on board. Thats why I want to keep it. But with super reliability.

People here know about
Ford Vs Holden
I6 Vs Boss
Tickford vs any other recent Ford

but there is also
MX5 Vs RX7
RX7 Vs Lotus
RX7 Vs Porsche although most Porsche guys are mature enough to know its a good fun thing
RX7 Rotary Vs RX7 V8.

Never underestimate the MX5 Vs RX-7 thing. Emotions rule over sanity with many people.

I do not love RX-7's. Not one tiny bit. But there is some emotion in my family for my particular car which happens currently to be an RX-7. I just want reliability and simplicity.

Mind you I agree wholeheartedly with your signature. Why Ford the dropped "Ghia" nameplate is a mystery to me. It is/was an Italian Design studio after all. Bring back the original badge. Not that stupid modern interpretation G H I A..

Oh no here we go Ghia vs G Series

And last but not least.

I am not trying to make it faster. 1.02 is too fast for this old dude to be going door to door. I will never do that in a race (although if I soemhow managed one in a super sprint it would be a buzz) but I think it highly unlikely unless Senna can come back and give me some driving lessons.

[Walt Kowalski]

Just realised LS3 is over 6 litre so its out.

[Rev28K]

Hi Walt

I’d have a talk with Sam’s Performance http://samsperformance.com.au/ , tell them what you are looking for (easy torque, reliability and low $$$) and see what they can come up with.

Is it worth fitting the LS3 with a shorter stroke crank to bring it back under 6.0 litre limit?

Is the same workshop that looks after your rotaries at the moment also going to do the V8?

I’ve seen the American LS1/RX7 conversion sites and they look pretty good – even on the old MkIV RX7’s.

I can see where I think you are trying to go with this and the Chev engine does look like a good option. Especially as you won’t be a pioneer with the conversion.

I’ve seen some of the tricky RX7 sports sedans down here (Turbo 4 cylinder Nissan engines) and they seem to be willing to sacrifice a lot (heat, rebuilds) for the weight & packaging advantages of the little engines.

[Sathanas]

Afaik the L76 is the L98 but with the DoD hardware still there. LS3 is a slightly larger L98 (same heads etc). LS7 has by far the best heads, but is also 7 litres :S

[Rev28K]

One other though was a V6 but you’d be more of a pioneer ($$$$) on this one. But they’d probably be better for handling

The only ones that spring to mind are the GM V6 (they could be made to perform, have a look at Formula Brabham) and they are cheap or the Nissan V6’s VG 3000cc-3300cc (you’d be tempted back to turbos again maybe) or the VQ – 3000cc to 4000cc they are rare and I’d think that they’d be reasonably pricey.

[KPOJ]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

One other though was a V6 but you’d be more of a pioneer ($$$$) on this one. But they’d probably be better for handling

The only ones that spring to mind are the GM V6 (they could be made to perform, have a look at Formula Brabham) and they are cheap or the Nissan V6’s VG 3000cc-3300cc (you’d be tempted back to turbos again maybe) or the VQ – 3000cc to 4000cc they are rare and I’d think that they’d be reasonably pricey.

VQ is the same engine as a maxima, my wrecker mate has hundreds of the things...

As said earlier, his car does 1.04s at wakefield, in the wakefield 300 if you go under 1.08 you are penalized. The car handling wise is next to perfect it just Pimakes the wrong noise. Being a pioneer has nothing to do with the choice of engine that's irrelevant. The most important factor is that it needs to be reliable Ie. put it in car and not worry about it.

[toyocharged]

Walt originally posted

toyocharged. THANK YOU for all your considered research. Now who the heck is Dale? I watch his mate Chip on that Foose show.

he works for castlehill exhaust and knows plenty about the LSX range of engines
http://www.castlehillexhaust.com.au/profiles.php

[f1tzy]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Just realised LS3 is over 6 litre so its out.

lol i forgot about the 6.0 capacity limit when i asked about the ls7. Then the l98 is the pick of the bunch then coming in at 5997cc or something close to that. A decent cam, mafless tune and exhaust & intake will see it absolutely screaming

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by KPOJ

Problem with an mx5 is that their built to have a 1.8L N/A engine. A bloke in melbourne has a very fast turbo one, it tears its self apart. Spindles at breaking point ect.. it has even tore the floorpan in places from fatigue.

It has to be done properly not just shoehorned in. See my previous link they sell everything from tube suspension links to diffs and axles for the conversion. Itll also need a roll cage for racing anyway. basically the original chassis is just there to keep the kitty litter away from the pedals LOL

[KPOJ]

The car i was talking about is a full blown successful race car that has cage glass panels with flares ect... very fast.

[FordMan101]

Go the L98 Walt, parts are available, knowledge is out there and they make good cheap power. Id love to see a pic of the car if you don't mind.

Thanks Fordman101

[tezxr8man]

L98 is the the 1st 6L motor out of the ss commodores the HSV's had the LS2 6L the L98 with the same mods as LS2's made more power, could always go a windsor out of an AU with alloy heads? they weigh less than the falcon 6 cylinder and are very compact compared to most v8's

[KPOJ]

The windsors are still a heavy little engine, getting close to 300kg once you put a decent block in. The gm engines weigh 200kg. An alloy block windsor would be nice.

Anyone know where you can get one cheap?

[nugget378]

I dont see a cheap way out, any V8 in a car that fast will NEED a dry sump.

Alot of the dry sump stuff can be bought used off ebaymotors, but it will still cost a bit to set it all up.

street cars start spinning bearings once track tyres are used if a racing sump isnt also fitted, the Rx7 is alot faster than any of them, and I doubt even the fanciest wet sump would cope..

[xbgs351]

How about a Cosworth XB? It is kinda Ford sounding;) Doesn't have bags of torque, but it does have bags of revs.

620hp, 117kg dry weight and a rebuild interval of 10 hours. Oh and they only cost about $100,000. Is this in your price range?

[Walt Kowalski]

Thanks everybody. I have been away with boat and wife for 3 nights. Had a really really great time.

Now back to business.

Rev28K.
I will make that phone call to Sam's. Thanks for the tip. Probably Monday. Will report back.

The Rotary shop I currently use is kinda specialised in Brap Braps but he's a good guy, really competent and I am going to talk to him about the job. He did race a level one V8 Supercar for while and tunes other race cars, not just Rotaries so it is a possibility. We have a mutual fabricator as well so it might just work.

Short stroke LS3? Is this complicated?

That turbo 4 Cylinder Nissan RX-7. That's Keith right? What a top bloke. Was meant to race him last weekend til my 13B blew again in practice. Had a "thrilling" time at Winton with him in 2008 and one particular episode I am sure he will never forget either. 3 wide on the short back straight and the inside car moves right over to the left moving both Keith and I onto the dirt up the straight. I was closest to the wall but kept into it and passed them both on the dirt up that little straight (before the second last corner) He came up later laughing as usual and said "man that was keen". I think mad was probably more appropriate but the adrenaline must have been sky high. It was towards the end of the weekend after all and all normal fear and rational thought had vanished.

I saw him last weekend. Got some in car beside him somewhere before mine blew up again.

You never know if he will bring out that RX-7, his 6 litre Cortina or some exotic touring car. Runs his tunes on the ragged edge! I think he tunes them himself not sure. Certainly gets the max out of them.

I assume that's the guy?

Now highly tuned turbos that destroy themselves resulting in frequent rebuilds are not an option for me. I am useless with tools. And don't have much dough.

VG30 Turbo? A good friend (who is a sponsor of this forum) had a VG30 in his car. $25k later and he threw it out and put an LS1 in it. Currently turboing the LS1. I WILL NEVER DO THAT. Somebody kill me if I even think about it.

Sathanas. Post count 7. Now I am getting confused again but at this stage fitzy is my guru on "L" series engines.

toyocharged:
I will give Dale a call. Sorry about the attempt at a Chip N Dale joke earlier. I like Foose' work though!

fitzy:
Thanks again. You have been very helpful.

ghiadude:
I don't know where to start with you. Fair dinkum.

The Series 6/7/8 RX-7 was Mazda's PREMO sports car. It cost a fortune new. Mazda's Porsche. Beat Porsche fair and square at Bathurst too.

It has a roof and beefy sills for structural integrity and lots of things like a HUMONGOUS centre tunnel that not only fits GINORMOUS gearboxes but really adds to the torsional rigidity.

That 60K I mentioned earlier was just for body work on an MX5 V8. Not making an MX-5 race ready.

There is a reason RX-7 still holds the Lap Record at Bathurst and even the latest Evo 10 or 335i Twin Turbo has not gotten close.

The MX-5 is a lovely little convertible. It will need more than a roll cage to stop it tearing itself to pieces when you add serious torque to the equation.

I am really trying hard to avoid the hair issues and hair resolutions. Somebody help me with Ghiadude's education.

Fordman101
Now there's a good user name for ya.

L98 is hot favourite at this stage.

Why do I have a sneaking suspicion I know you?? I'm bettin' you race!

tezxr8man:
Thank you for that L98 update. I think the windsor has been ruled out AFAIK.

nugget378.
Thanks. Dry sump L98 it is at this stage. Jerico sequentualised 4speed, NASCAR clutch, bellhousing and sump.

xbgs351:
re the Cosworth

Hey guess what I got to race on the weekend?

A Reynard F3!!!!

God is good!!!

[KPOJ]

S i know a bloke with a heap of old imsa vg30s, i can get you some big cheap reliable horsepower.