Ford Territory Diesel busted!

[dbirdy]

It would be interesting to see if this ends up in a Falcon. It may be possible to beat the Camry on fuel economy.....

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Personally I believe Ford are 4 years too late with a diesel option and think they'll struggle to regain the popularity experienced with Territory.

I agree.

It (diesel) would have been a real winner 4 (even 2) or so years ago.

If there are some really significant sheetmetal changes however, I believe it will win back quite a few sales......

Regardless of the recent media bagging it has taken, it is still highly regarded by many current and prospective owners. I used to have one at work and loved it.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I agree.



If there are some really significant sheetmetal changes however, I believe it will win back quite a few sales......

.

I agree Barraxr8. Fact is the territory name has a huge following in australia....in its target demographic it still has a great deal of goodwill towards it. If the new one looks 'new enough' it will get alot of repeat customers for sure. Plus alot of people who have been looking at it will jump on board (it already has happened with the sy mk2 and that 's a very mild update compared to an all new one). A diesel will be just the excuse they need...even if it doesn't realy work out cost effectively in the long run it will be seen as 'new'.

If Ford puts in some of the newer tech in the other models it has launched since it will probably be a very competitive car again in its own right. I wonder if they can make it go, stop and steer better then it does now? If so nothing under an X5 will touch it....

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

If Ford puts in some of the newer tech in the other models it has launched since it will probably be a very competitive car again in its own right. I wonder if they can make it go, stop and steer better then it does now? If so nothing under an X5 will touch it....

All the Territory needed was slightly more power and it would have all three over the X5. As I've said before, my Territory handled, stopped and steered better than my (E53) MY05 X5 does. The only thing my X5 has over the Territory is Build Quality and Power.

Presumably, the Orion Territory will be as well built as FG is, so one of the X5's advantages are taken out. The ZF covers any power shortfall.

[Polyal]

Everyone seems to forget that this is a world beating car, developed in a nation that is insignificant compared to the rest of the world market. This alone is the reason why things take so long here.

Just wait until we start sharing platforms then FoA can react quicker. Its just a shame its currently that way.

Imagine how good it would be if only it sold in other markets, more R&D $$$ etc.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Paxton

All the Territory needed was slightly more power and it would have all three over the X5. As I've said before, my Territory handled, stopped and steered better than my (E53) MY05 X5 does. The only thing my X5 has over the Territory is Build Quality and Power.

Presumably, the Orion Territory will be as well built as FG is, so one of the X5's advantages are taken out. The ZF covers any power shortfall.

Well, when you consider Ford has done nada to change the handling/ride of the terrirtory in 5 years its a testament to the engineers involved. It is still one of the best handling SUVs in the world. Almost all the journos involved in the test driving of the mk2 remarked how after being reaquainted with the car they came away impressed once again. It is a truly great driving car for its size/weight. Hell i'd drive one over a bunch of much lighter sedans for that matter. Any idea when this new one is coming out andrew??

[GK]

Territory cops criticism for being too thirsty.
It cops criticism for not being updated enough for quite some time.

A significant sheet metal and interior upgrade, plus the diesel engine, should go a long way to silence or at least appease the critics.

GK

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by GK

A significant sheet metal and interior upgrade, plus the diesel engine, should go a long way to silence or at least appease the critics.

GK

No, I'm sure the haters will still find something to hate on.

[nosliwedaw]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I was wondering how can they tell what engine's under the bonnet plus does anyone know if the 2.7V6 tdi is still in production or for how long?

The 2.7 will still be available in the D4(base model) and is still used in a couple of pug's and citreon's.

The LR 2.7 being a single turbo against the new 3.0TT would be a cheaper engine one would imagine.

[GT-E]

My family loves our TTG and will upgrade to the "FG" TTG next year when ti is released.
I testdrove a 4.8is X5 the other day. For a $140k (2nd hand) car, it was not any better than a TTG with a FG update.
We have had bugger all problems, smoke most cars on the road and it is a safe family car.
So what if there is no oilier option, it is a minor issue that I doubt has affected sales much.
For anyone that knows anything about diesel, they are a big compromise in a family car.
They are dirty, slow and cost a lot more in maintenance. The only reason they are popular is due to Europe having less tax on the fuel.
If Ford were smart, they should work out a LPG only option for the Ford range as we have an endless supply of this fuel, where diesel needs to be mostly imported.

I for one think Ford is on the right track in Oz, I just wished the USA would wake up and fund the export of the FG and Territory for a worldwide market, as they are by far the best cars in their range.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by nosliwedaw

The 2.7 will still be available in the D4(base model) and is still used in a couple of pug's and citreon's.

The LR 2.7 being a single turbo against the new 3.0TT would be a cheaper engine one would imagine.

I was under the impression that the Discovery 4 will only have the 3.0V6TT and 5.0V8, while the Jag XF also has both engines, but also a 240HP 3.0V6 diesel with a single turbo. I am pretty sure the 2.7 is gone.

Originally Posted by GT-E

Ford were smart, they should work out a LPG only option for the Ford range as we have an endless supply of this fuel, where diesel needs to be mostly imported.

I for one think Ford is on the right track in Oz, I just wished the USA would wake up and fund the export of the FG and Territory for a worldwide market, as they are by far the best cars in their range.

What works well in one place, might not work so well elsewhere. As good as I think the Territory is, I don't think it would compete well globally with other crossovers, and certainly not in North America against the Flex, Acadia, Traverse, Enclave which all have an abundance of legroom in all 3 rows. Not quite like sitting in an Expedition, which has more 3rd row legroom than anything I can think of, but for a crossover they are hard to compete with. The Flex is one of those cars that you think is ugly at first, and eventually it grows on you. Despite the mechanical advantages of the Territory, I think it would be too reminiscent of the Freestyle and Taurus X. Those are cars that nobody ever talks about.

[madmelon]

SOmeone got me thinking about possible fuel consumption of the 2.7TD. I started hunting around and came up with some interesting numbers.

Captiva FWD Auto
City: 11L/100km
Highway: 7.1L/100km
Combined: 8.5L/100km
Kerb Mass: 1790kg -> how is this so low?

Land Rover Discovery 3 2.7DT (Single Turbo)
City: 13.1L/100km
Highway: 8.5L/100km
Combined: 10.2L/100km
Kerb Mass: 2504kg!!

Jaguar S-Type 2.7DTT 2008
City: 10.9L/100km
Highway: 6.1L/100km
Combined: 7.8L/100km
Kerb Mass: 1790kg

Jaguar XF 2.7TT 2009
City: 10.4L/100km
Highway: 5.8L/100km
Combined: 7.5L/100km
Kerb Mass: 1771kg

...but probably the best idea comes from:
Peugeot 407 SV HDi (2.7TT)
City: 11.9L/100km
Highway: 6.5L/100km
Combined: 8.5L/100km
Kerb Mass: 1917kg- fairly close to a Territory isn't it?

...this is more along the lines of what we really want though:
Jaguar XF Diesel S (3.0TT)
City: 9.5L/100km
Highway: 5.5L/100km
Combined: 6.8L/100km
Kerb Mass: 1820kg

I know most aren't the single turbo architecture but we can always hope and pray it ends up being that glorious 3.0TT from the Jag...The performance and economy numbers are astonishing! Not to mention it is Euro 5, supposedly extremely quiet and has amazing throttle response.

This quote is from the press release...
"Jaguar engineers particularly focussed on the issue of turbocharger 'lag' at low engine speeds. The new AJ-V6D Gen III 3.0-litre diesels significantly out-perform their rivals by delivering 500Nm of torque in only 500 milliseconds from idle."

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by GT-E

They are dirty, slow and cost a lot more in maintenance. The only reason they are popular is due to Europe having less tax on the fuel.
If Ford were smart, they should work out a LPG only option for the Ford range as we have an endless supply of this fuel, where diesel needs to be mostly imported.

You are wrong on so many levels its not funny, have you ever owned a modern diesel anything? I have had three and I do not know of this 'dirt' you speak of. You must live in a sterile laboratory. Maintenance? Out of the 8 diesels at work the only maintenance the cars need apart from oil is new tires every 40,000km which has nothing to do with the diesel. And slow? Ha! There are plenty of 400nm+ Diesels out there fast enough to over take a road train fully loaded, unless you are an immature street racer (which I am dam sure you are not) then there is no need for 'speed', just effortless cruising torque, something like a... V8... so that would make that point moot.

Go and drive a really good diesel, try out a Ford Ranger they are a cracker or give a Hilux a go, nice and flexible, or try out a TDV8 Landcruiser that will give you a hard on. But of course you would have already done all that before typing your post. :

[XRFutura]

Don't forget diesel engine racers have won the le mans 24hr the last couple of years and Seat with diesel engine in the WTCC has given BMW a run for it money in the championship. There is a alot of misconceptions about modern diesel engines.

Really looking forward to seeing a diesel power territory. I love this car and what it has done for FoA. Hopefully more australians realise how good this car really is when the FG territory comes out.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by YOOT

You are wrong on so many levels its not funny, have you ever owned a modern diesel anything? I have had three and I do not know of this 'dirt' you speak of. You must live in a sterile laboratory. Maintenance? Out of the 8 diesels at work the only maintenance the cars need apart from oil is new tires every 40,000km which has nothing to do with the diesel. And slow? Ha! There are plenty of 400nm+ Diesels out there fast enough to over take a road train fully loaded, unless you are an immature street racer (which I am dam sure you are not) then there is no need for 'speed', just effortless cruising torque, something like a... V8... so that would make that point moot.

Go and drive a really good diesel, try out a Ford Ranger they are a cracker or give a Hilux a go, nice and flexible, or try out a TDV8 Landcruiser that will give you a hard on. But of course you would have already done all that before typing your post. :

Apparently that 3.0 D in the ranger is the bomb. I was told it is a much better optoin than the base engine because while it burns pretty much nothing more in real life it pulls alot harder. As for the 2.7 vs 3.0TT debate, to be honest i'd be more concerned the 3.0TT has too much grunt. NOt that we should ever refuse horsepower, but to be honest it seems a bit much for the job. The 2.7 numbers are about right....it will probaby be no faster than the petrol but burn quite a bit less. Which i reckon is the entire point...performance should be adequate, competitive with petrols but not crazy. Less power, more torque (420-430nm) would be quite ok for a territory with a ZF.

[XR Martin]

Diesel maintenance is an issue, youd be surprised on how common it is for these new common rail diesels to be needing new injectors by the time they hit 80-120k kms. And theres the fact that they need servicing every 10k kms.
And diesels arnt really designed to be stopped and started like a petrol engine, there will be big money in turbo replacements in a few years once they all start getting a few miles on them.
The fuel is nasty stuff, when fueling with petrol you rarely get your hands dirty, but with diesel you always come away smelling like a trucker, and you always end up standing in a slippery residue at the pump.

I like the advantage of fuel economy, but these is no power advantage (compared to a turbo petrol), or any other advantage for that matter.

[Romulus]

Personally I believe servicing (oil changes) should be carried out every 5-7.5k whether diesel or petrol powered. With the introduction of ultra-low sulpher diesel (such as BP ultimate diesel) engines run cleaner.

I prefer the stump pulling power and frugal fuel use of the late model CDI engines. 147kw and 441nm from a 3.2 4 cylinder is impressive in my books.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by GT-E

My family loves our TTG and will upgrade to the "FG" TTG next year when ti is released.
I testdrove a 4.8is X5 the other day. For a $140k (2nd hand) car, it was not any better than a TTG with a FG update.

Ah ok, in which was it not any better? The Territory is a good car no doubt but every review I have read has the X5 doing it better in every way except price and I am sorry you can see where the money has gone in the X5

We have had bugger all problems, smoke most cars on the road and it is a safe family car.
So what if there is no oilier option, it is a minor issue that I doubt has affected sales much.
For anyone that knows anything about diesel, they are a big compromise in a family car.
They are dirty, slow and cost a lot more in maintenance. The only reason they are popular is due to Europe having less tax on the fuel.
If Ford were smart, they should work out a LPG only option for the Ford range as we have an endless supply of this fuel, where diesel needs to be mostly imported.

Ah you do realise a TTG is not the same as a diesel, that the diesel is simply another option and has nothing to do with performance? Your TTG will still be there so you can "smoke" most cars.
As for your diesel comments, all I can say is go and drive a modern diesel.

[Ross-b]

i drove a modern diesel once
current model jetta. 6spd man

never again lol

a bit off topic though

[nosliwedaw]

Originally Posted by chevypower

I was under the impression that the Discovery 4 will only have the 3.0V6TT and 5.0V8, while the Jag XF also has both engines, but also a 240HP 3.0V6 diesel with a single turbo. I am pretty sure the 2.7 is gone.

If you are talking about AU then you are correct, however the 2.7 will still be available in the European market on the base model D4 with coil springs and the Commercial versions. It is also still used in a number of other applications for Peugeot and Citreon. It isn't going anywhere just yet.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Paxton

What diesel Kluger will Territory be selling against?

Read my post again buddy, cause I don't remember saying anything about a diesel Kluger. There seems to be a few people around here that need to learn to read posts a bit better (not saying I don't need to as well before someone whinges about that).

Also, last month, Territory outsold Kluger and Craptiva. Strange, as Territory has two engine choices, and is up against a Toyota.

Well please explain to me why everyone whinges about the 'slow selling' Territory in every VFACTS thread...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by fordman6

Well please explain to me why everyone whinges about the 'slow selling' Territory in every VFACTS thread...

Because it was pulling 2500 units a month and now its dropped down. Not surprising seeing its pretty much the same car since its release.

[backinaba]

Just in case no one else has mentioned it, a review of the pic seems to show a small front mount behind the grille, up high. Thoughts?

[Road_Warrior]

I've just noticed that there ARE some differences with the roof lines of these cars, and there is a funny looking hump on top of the tailgate. What gives?



Hump on top of the tailgate ^^^



Roofline. Seems to be bulged only slightly above where the driver sits, and the raised bumps in the roof only seem to be present on one side of the roof??

[YOOT]

Thats just the bad photoshop background covering some of the bumps.

[Raptor]

There's no hump on the tailgate either. At least none that my 2004 model doesn't also have.

What are you smoking Road Warrior it:

[naddis01]

Sorry Raptor but I think you may be the one smoking. If you look at the pic above there is definately a hump on the top of the tailgate. It runs along the top of the light.

[block58]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Sorry Raptor but I think you may be the one smoking. If you look at the pic above there is definately a hump on the top of the tailgate. It runs along the top of the light.

Kinda looks like the hump/line at the top of the FG boot and alot of the newer BMW sedans. Looks pretty good (even though its only a tiny addition)

[Mark^^]

Just went and looked at lots of my photos of Territorys, including my own, and the slight bump above the brake light on the tailgate is normal.

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by Mark^^

Just went and looked at lots of my photos of Territorys, including my own, and the slight bump above the brake light on the tailgate is normal.

Agreed