How the hell do toyota sell these??!

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

However, in recent times particularly, as brands like Ford, Mazda, VW and many others have launched good cars, and Toyota has launched what most knowledgeable people would call 'duds', my view on the 'big T' has changed a bit. I don't think i would recommend any current passenger car toyota for a person to buy, under any circumstance. By most objective measures, they are falling increasingly off the pace. Many Toyota buyers i know bought it because they didn't know any better, or are fanboys of the brand. None of the buyers seemed to have any understanding at all about cars or what is available in the market.

The corolla is probably their worse car IMO, but the camry aint far behind. Toyota sell because of their strong market position, brand awareness and huge amounts of advertising. I know taking car journos as gospel isn't always smart, but i dont think i've seen a Toyota come close to winning a comparison in 5 years. The 'new' corolla lost majorly to the Golf and Mazda 3 when it came out, and they are old models up for replacement soon.

From my own personal experience, i find toyotas to be tiring to drive, sub-par in ride/handling/comfort, not particularly good value and totally uninspiring. And their interiors....

Not meaning to insult any toyota owners on this forum, but if anyone did buy a late-model Toyota (non commercial anyway) i'd love to know why. I can't imagine even touching one.

The majority of the customers i speak to are actually rather switched on when it comes to cars. Many are buying a toyota because of the reliability and build quality. I havnt seen a single issue with any of the corolla's we've had here.

What you need to understand is that different people want different things in the vehicle they drive. I've sold Focus and i've sold corolla and i would not hesitate to recomend a corolla to friends or family. while the focus is a great car to drive and has fantastic looks, its let down by build quality and is plagued by problems.

Toyota has some of the lowest warranty claim rates, espicially compared to holden or ford. Personally i dont like the way many toyota's steer however feature for feature they often lead the game.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by Nappa

The majority of the customers i speak to are actually rather switched on when it comes to cars. Many are buying a toyota because of the reliability and build quality. I havnt seen a single issue with any of the corolla's we've had here.

What you need to understand is that different people want different things in the vehicle they drive. I've sold Focus and i've sold corolla and i would not hesitate to recomend a corolla to friends or family. while the focus is a great car to drive and has fantastic looks, its let down by build quality and is plagued by problems.

Toyota has some of the lowest warranty claim rates, espicially compared to holden or ford. Personally i dont like the way many toyota's steer however feature for feature they often lead the game.

I understand what you are saying Nappa, in that a corolla is fine for people who don't necessarily want the best handling etc. Problem is, it isn't an issue for me regarding people wanting different brands other than ford, it is that someone who is 'switched on' to cars would buy a corolla. I mean, sorry, i don't care how good the after sales service is, or the lack of warranty claims etc., it is the fact the corolla and many other toyota products at the moment, fail as a car in itself. They aren't up to the standard of what i would consider a honest, respected car. I'm not even after a 'great' car, or a good handler or whatever.

This is all i was saying, viewed objetively as a vehicle, toyotas don't stack up. There are many examples of little things they do right, but as a whole they have too many problems. From bottom rung handling (since when do Hyundai outhandle the top selling marque??) to useless ESP, there is a tonne of examples. Maybe this sort of stuff was ok 10 years ago, it isn't now. The australian car market has too many good vehicles (some from brands with build quality and after sales service as good if not better than toyota) to waste your money as a private buyer. Cars have to be profficient at getting from A to B, i don't think toyota's do this very well IN COMPARISON to other marques, the rest is academic.

[tapeworm]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

most people that buy Toyotas (mainly Camry and Corolla) don't even consider other cars, now most car enthusiasts know that Camry/ Corolla are crap, but that doesn't matter because they all see Fords as 'poorly built petrol guzzlers' but at the same time they see Toyotas as bulletproof cars that run off of the smell of an oily rag.

If you tell these people that a 4 cyl Camry will use as much juice as a 6 cyl Falcon they just laugh at you. It's the same as the tools that buy the Holden Barina, Nobody bought a Daewoo Kalos, then Holden stuck a Barina badge on it, and look it's in the top 20 sales.

At the end of the day Perception wins and truth comes in a distant second.

You are a very wise specimen. My Falcon uses less than the old lady's 4 cyl Camry, the things pretty much screaming it's t!ts off just to move it's own weight, the Ford's barely off idle most of the time.

[MITCHAY]

Some people don't care if they can drive a million miles an hour to get from A to B or look fancy doing so. A car is just a way of transport to these people. Is it really that hard to understand?

[dishpig]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Some people don't care if they can drive a million miles an hour to get from A to B or look fancy doing so. A car is just a way of transport to these people. Is it really that hard to understand?

yes it is

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by dishpig

yes it is

rofl! Gotta try and view it from the regular jo blo's perspective mate.

[Poetic Justice]

Precisely. Even the majority people who buy Falcons aren't doing it because it's the emotional choice!

[Ives]

What's the likelihood of a Falcon having no faults or problems whatsoever for 200,000+ kms.

[XR Martin]

More on Toyota quality...

Ive driven two Klugers, one with 13k kms and another with 19k, both of which were full of rattles, nearly as bad as my EL
Also on one the front passenger door would lock for half a second and then immediately unlock, the other had a broken front passenger armrest.

[V8falcons]

Originally Posted by Ives

What's the likelihood of a Falcon having no faults or problems whatsoever for 200,000+ kms.

fairly likely

[GS608]

toyotas quality has dropped in recent years because they became so popular so quick, they couldn't cope. My old mans 2005 Hilux is a heap of ^#*$ to drive compared to my old 1996 Triton, the gearbox feels like a slushbox, you never know which gear you were in and the build quality is shocking.

basically they're living on their reputation of excellent build quality, which is non-existant these days.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Some people don't care if they can drive a million miles an hour to get from A to B or look fancy doing so. A car is just a way of transport to these people. Is it really that hard to understand?

But it is not just A to B people. Some people are actually DOING UP Corollas and Camrys.

A bloke I went to highschool absolutely worshiped his late 80's Corolla and used to boast in class about it's "superior" twin-cam engine. He still has it and has poured a few G's into it so it now has rims, fart cannon etc. His actual DREAM car is a AE86 Corolla.

I got sick of his bull so I dragged him and absolutely wiped the floor with him. By a 100 kays I was off in the distance. I thought I'd better slow down and wait for him and half a minute later he came screaming by and kept going. He now claims that he won :

But my point is that believe it or not there are Camry and Corolla ENTHUSIASTS. I have seen a few Camrys cutting around with fart cannons and rims. I can understand Supras but Camrys????? What possible fun can you have in a slushbox Camry?? They can't even spin the wheels on dirt!

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by sleekism

They can't even spin the wheels on dirt!

actually they can on pavement, alot easier in my dads camry than my commonwhore for some reason lol

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by sleekism

They can't even spin the wheels on dirt!

I don't know what Camry's you've driven or whether you are one of the worst drivers known to man, but you're getting a bit too far ahead of yourself.

That said, maybe you're one of those people who judges cars like the Camry by the brief encounter you had with a 1992 model with 300,000kms on it?

[hypnodoc]

What the hell are you all on about. The Carolla and the Camry are fantastic cars, so long as nobody you know actually sees you driving one .
Any company who can invent something as disgusting as that thing called a Prius will never sell me anything, anywhere, anytime, for any reason EVER.
IMHO Camry drivers are the Volvo drivers of the new Millennium :gren:

[TE50 027]

I've heard that there's a 12sec S/C V6 Camry somewhere here in Brissy. Looks stock and has made many Ford and Holden drivers look a bit silly when they've taken it on.

[hypnodoc]

The Camry V8 is doing really well at NASCAR to.
But the things we get here really are a vomit bucket IMHO

[RS350]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

toyotas quality has dropped in recent years because they became so popular so quick, they couldn't cope. My old mans 2005 Hilux is a heap of ^#*$ to drive compared to my old 1996 Triton, the gearbox feels like a slushbox, you never know which gear you were in and the build quality is shocking.

basically they're living on their reputation of excellent build quality, which is non-existant these days.

This is so true, try working on a mine site the new alloy V8 they have in the new landcruisers are rubbish we had 10 so far and most of them have holes in the block in less than 3 months, some of the older ones we got are almost ten yrs old and dont even have a hick-up.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by SCUD

I don't know what Camry's you've driven or whether you are one of the worst drivers known to man, but you're getting a bit too far ahead of yourself.

That said, maybe you're one of those people who judges cars like the Camry by the brief encounter you had with a 1992 model with 300,000kms on it?

Mid 90's slushbox Camry. Even on the dirt with the handbrake it would bog down. It would spin but it wasn't slamming the limiter like you expect.

Compare that to a Falcon or Commo where even someone physically and mentally retarded can do a burnout in whether it's auto or manual. I've done a skid in a manual Camry but how hard is that?? Drop Clutch+Handbrake

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Erusur

This is so true, try working on a mine site the new alloy V8 they have in the new landcruisers are rubbish we had 10 so far and most of them have holes in the block in less than 3 months, some of the older ones we got are almost ten yrs old and dont even have a hick-up.

We have 4-cylinder petrol Hiluxes at work. Not only do they have shocking fuel economy struggling to get 300kays a tank but on one of them the gearbox let go only a few months old. Don't get me started on the crappy radio that can't pick up anything or play any burnt CD's.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by hypnodoc

The Camry V8 is doing really well at NASCAR to.
But the things we get here really are a vomit bucket IMHO

I don't think you can get a RWD Camry with a 5.7L V8 in the US market either

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Some people don't care if they can drive a million miles an hour to get from A to B or look fancy doing so. A car is just a way of transport to these people. Is it really that hard to understand?

Exactly. I think they are boring personally but that doesn't make them a bad car.

Asking why camrys and corrollas sell so much is always going to get the same responses on a car enthusiasts forum. Its more common for us to put an exhaust and intake on a falcon and pretend we have a sports car than it is for your average camry driver because they just don't care about that stuff and if we thought about 100% objectively, we wouldn't care either.

Cars were not invented to do laps of everyones home town and while its great that we can personalize our cars and turn them into something a little different its important to remember, especially on here that we are the minority and that most people see their cars as little more than transport.

[4.0i_SiX]

I do agree that the new Toyota's are as boring as bat shlt. I drive a 92 Landcruiser GXl and it is a fantastic truck. However from a business point of view....
My girlfriend used to work as a nurse for Spiritus ( formerly St Lukes ) and they had a mix of Ford Focus' and Toyota Corolla's. While both were very reliable little cars, the Ford was FAR nicer to drive with better features on the base model cars. HOWEVER as far as servicing costs and resale values go, they have nothing on the corolla. The focus' absolutely EAT their rotors ( 99% of Euro cars do ) and were due for a rotor change within 30,000 - 40,000k's. Fords service was appauling and theyre worth nothing to resell in a few years. The company used this feedback and decided to buy the Executives a whole fleet of Camry Sportivos. They would not even consider a falcon due to both the bad service and resale values of the focus. Sad really

[3vXT]

I noticed a distinct lack of 'sexy' camrys in this thread...

[Hunter]

Hahaha the second pic looks like the guy was given a meccano set for his birthday and went nuts... hahaha.

[Darthur]

The Corolla is an absolutely horrid car to drive. I had the unfortunate task of driving one a total of 6 hours.

[want-a-XY]

i've never been unfortunate enough to drive a camry, although dad drove a camry and also a kluger and his reply to me was "just don't go there!". not suprising lol

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Hahaha the second pic looks like the guy was given a meccano set for his birthday and went nuts... hahaha.

I always wonder about the ones who put a spoiler on the rear of a front wheel drive - don't they know what a spoiler's for! It should be on the front

I think my introduction to the Camry was a pretty impartial one. I was allocated a fleet car to go on a job a few hundred Ks up the NSW north coast. I didn't pay any attention to what car it was, just vaguely aware of a Toyota badge on the steering wheel. After 100k I was starting to get seriously spooked by the driving dynamics and weird behaviour on bends (I was driving like a European as usual!). Then the ergonomcs started getting to me and I was getting a sore back no matter how I adjusted the seat. At the first stop I got out and walked around the back to look at the badge - "Camry". I complained to the fleet manager that I thought there was something wrong with the car but he said that's the way it normally was.

Nothing's changed - I notice the July Wheels says the same things about the dynamics in the comparison between Camry, Falcon and Holden. And Falcon came out first! :

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I always wonder about the ones who put a spoiler on the rear of a front wheel drive - don't they know what a spoiler's for!

Aren't they just for looks? :

[burnz]

how do toymota sell them..
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