2012-30

[fmc351]

Edit to above:

Looking at the roads now with the younger generation they mostly favour the Too Fast Too Furious look anyway, so Ford moving to turbo 6 and moving away from the Bogan 8 could be good for Ford long term, they are part of the market now and will be the market in the future. Just as Im set in my ways on a V8, they will be in theirs.

[FalconXV]

But Holden has the ability to turbo the Alloytec, you dont want to be in a position where Holden matches the turbo six and also has a V8 when we dont...

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

But Holden has the ability to turbo the Alloytec, you dont want to be in a position where Holden matches the turbo six and also has a V8 when we dont...

I dont, but many of the ricer generation will look at Ford differently if Ford did it. The future of Holden v Ford could be in Fords favour if they do it first.

The sad thing is, my son has been brought up around 8's, he likes the classic 8's, but his eyes are automatically attracted to kitted ricers. Its like Pokemon, Ipods and PSP's, its part of their generation and lets face it, most cars arent bought by people who understand much more than what they like to look at or what their peers tell them.

When I was growing up the 8 was naturally quicker, there was only argument over Ford v Holden for the most part and most of it retarded, the odd Lambo, Ferrari or Porsche et al fan. These kids know the Sierra and GTR's for example destroyed 8's. The only reason 8's win Bathurst now is the others arent allowed. So the kids see them as the underdog, with mucho bite and they are right.

The worlds changing, ....as always. It depends where Ford see the market heading, and where they want to be along with all the extraneous factors that impact their options. Theres just so many variables.

[Quasi]

Originally Posted by JEM

What would be the reaction from the enthusiast on this forum if NO V8 was available AFTER Orion?

Also note, the options are V6, V6T and V6TT, all direct injection and the performance derivatives more than compensate for the lack of a V8 in all areas...(maybe except sound) etc etc etc...

thanks.
Jem

Pretty much I wouldn't be happy, but since I don't see myself in a position to buy a 'NEW' car in the next few years, at least, I still have options of pre-loved (or should that be pre-thrashed) XR8 and GT models to consider.

A V6 turbo of some descrption is not entirely unattractive.....though to be honest the only thing that would keep me out of a focus XR5 is the fact that I'm a big bugger.

[onfire]

Why would they even consider dropping the V8 option, considering the continued success both Ford and Holden in V8 sales. You'll see much lighter, smaller and aerodynamic models in the future before the V8 is considered something of the past.

Like tx3dude said, if it isnt selling, they'll make it sell. Like Holden have, marketing the V8 models to the younger generation for the last 10 years. A vast percentage of those, 18-25 year olds would still be living on some what a disposable income ( little expenses, without a mortgage, etc ) paying that little bit extra for fuel every week, wouldnt seem like a big deal.

[Fairlane]

I am going to throw this one out there, but for gen Y, the importance of the v8 is long gone. Ford suffered before for dropping the v8 in the 80s, but people of my generation whilst liking v8 supercars and impressed by the sound of the v8, are more pragmatic. Two friends of mine have now got xr6T's, i asked them why they didnt get a XR8- got the same answer, too slow, too heavy, not enough modability(is that a word?) , better economy from the 6 . To put it simply young people care about v8's as much- we come from an era in which a car did not need a v8 to get to 100mph- In the old days a v8 was a signifier of a real car, a quick car one with effortless performance, but hell a any turbo 4 has grunt these days as does any N/A 6.

I think a sporty model of the 2010 Focus made in Australia, could be a real winner, especially among young people as long as Ford flogs it as 100% australian. I for one would love a v8 to continue into the future, but i think the future of the v8 say beyond 2015 is seriously in doubt.

[JPFS1]

Thanks guys, all very interesting posts... keep it going if you like.

Should have made this a poll.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

Actually the EFI 4.1 in the XF was almost as powerful and as quick as the contemporary 5.0L V8s from Holden, and both the EFI 6 in the XE and the more powerful successor in the XF were highly regarded in their day.

Ford had S Packs in the XF which were the XR6s of the day with sports suspension, interior trim and sports instrumentation. Some even came with S pack exterior detailing. My old man owned one for 10 years.

But there werent any Brock-esque in your face hero cars from from Ford, just snowflake mags, extra gauges and red piping on the seats!

By mid next decade we'll be lucky if the 2 fast 2 furious generation will be into big cars, let alone V8s. Turbos are the go now, for performance in a sports sense, and also to extract performance from smaller engines.

However with Falcons platform now linked to the Mustang we (should) always have access to decent V8s from the states?

[JPFS1]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=51383

[sfr rob]

I would be very interested to see the sales figures in one years time from release regarding the amount of V8 powered falcon based cars which are sold, as apposed to the new 6T's. Then compare that to the BA/BF progression and see if there is a trend leaning towards people moving over to the I6 T's.
If Ford were to drop the V8 from the line up all together, all hell would break loose. I would like to see maybe just a GT variant with a new V8, but keep it exclusively available in just the GT's. If people really want a torque filled engine bay, they can go the twin turbo.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by JEM

would you be surprised if Ford Australia didn't offer an 8 post Orion?

Surprised - No.
Disappointed - No.
Sure that there will be V8 enthusiasts who would nearly kill themselves over it - Yes.

Basically, I've never bought a V8, never had the need or want to, and never will. So it wouldn't bother me at all

I'm not biased one way or the other, I'm a car lover. I don't love V8's, I don't love Turbo's, I don't love Ford's. I love cars, in all shapes and sizes. (is it just me, or does that sound kinky? : )

SUV's, small-med cars, sports coupes, you name it. I'd struggle to narrow the list of the next car I want to get down to less than ten options. I can tell you one thing though, even if fuel wasn't a concern, a Ford V8 would not be on the list. A Ford Turbo 6 would be though.

So back to what you were asking JEM, I wouldn't be surprised, and I honestly wouldn't care... I'd be disappointed if there wasn't a performance arm (i.e. XR's and FPV's) - but so long as they're good performance cars, I don't care what's under the hood.

Just my own opinion and honest 2c

[edit] and to add to something I saw up the page a bit. I'm 26 (sigh, getting old). I know the history of the GTHO, but I didn't experience it. My father-in-law is a car nut who experienced the original GT's and Monaro's etc. But I don't think Ford (or Holden) can expect today's generation to be sold on the success these models were previously. We aren't all V8 fans these days, times have changed.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by JEM

Thanks guys, all very interesting posts... keep it going if you like.

Should have made this a poll.

If you make it a poll possibly it should include a section for those who bought a NEW Ford/FPV V8 in the last 5 years rather than those who are rebuilding ancient technology.

Ford/FPV make only NEW cars and the V8 zealot market is of no interest whatsoever if all that they are buying is second hand.

Also make sure the names of the voters are shown as some tend to fib......

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by JEM

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...rticleID=51383

JEM... Well done. Right on the money again! (and 3 days before the article appeared... Are you psychic?)

To answer your question..
Coincidently, I've just received an invite to Australian Carbon Trading Expo, which obviously focuses on managing, measuring, reducing & offsetting carbon emissions etc. This carbon footprint crap seems to be the catch-cry of the 21st century, and sends the gullible masses into hysteria!
So, NO, I would not be in the least surprised if the V8 was axed. (If only to appease these environmental wackers)
Disappointed?.. Yes!! But I wonder how much of my disappointment is purely sentimental and nostalgic? A bit like when electricity replaced steam on rail..

[BlackLS]

A better question to ask is would you be happy driving a hydrogen powered car around?

[JC]

Originally Posted by JEM

You are missing the point.

There are so many things i can bring into this that would show a lot of evidence to suggest the V8 or any other large dimension engine is dying a slow death.

I'll put it another way, would you be surprised if Ford Australia didn't offer an 8 post Orion?

Actually, I think it's you that has assumed to much in your point. I think the real issue is engine capacity, not number of cylinders. Why not make a smaller V8 (say 3.5 litres), with single or twin turbo. That would generate more torque and better sound than the same capacity V6, but should be just as economical.

[LeadFoot81]

A small, twin turbocharged ecoboost V8 with all the trimmings? Where do I sign up?!?
And Im sure the Territory and Explorer owners would like a diesel version as well.

[Bossxr8]

If Ford built the 5.0 with all the technology that has been talked about for it like direct injection, VVT, VCT, cylinder de-activation etc, then there's no reason why a V8 Falcon can't deliver decent fuel economy and emissions.

They would be absolutely stupid if they dropped the V8 again. For one thing it would mean the end of the GT, which would instantly halve FPV's sales.

[Rodp]

V8's are essentially dead to me now. Love them, love my current one, its replacement is on a boat somewhere in South Africa and that's all I have to say about that...

Ford's initial drop of the 8 was a huge mistake. This time around, it's only an inevitability. Seeing the 6T outperform it quite considerably pretty much says it all. 'We can give you the power of the 8 in a more cost effective platform for us'.

Would someone who's not planning on even purchasing a V8 be swayed to not buy a Ford because they stopped selling a V8? Doubtful. Are the amount of sales worth the development costs of new, more efficient V8's as petrol prices rise and emission standards lower? Probably not.

[cs123]

Have to agree with Rodp. Sums up my feelings nicely.

It's not what you can do technology wise with a V8, it's what is practical and cost effective.

Ford currently have a 6 that can cater to the performance market. It'll cost a bundle to develop the current v8 to be competitive.

[PALE ALE]

Why are turbo 6's more economical than naturally aspirated 8's ?

[LeadFoot81]

Off boost they have the consumption of a standard 6, on boost (and making big power) roughly the same as an 8, hence the average consumption is less than the 8.
Thats my basic understanding.

[HSE2]

No V8 option = no patronage from me. No V8 option by anyone else would obviously change that reply. Then I would look for V10 then V12.

[McobraR]

Bah! ever since JEM posted this thread up, and also ever since Ford US started talking about fuel efficienty and this ecoboost tech, did i had the strongest feeling the V8 was gonna go. My guess is that we'll be getting the 3.5 instead of the 3.7 as well, but hopefully not. :

[HSE2]

The drive article is incorrect. The current Boss engine will not be modified to meet Euro 4. FPV are looking for the replacement V8 now and unless something has happened in the last 4 weeks or so that will be powering the FPV GT range post 2010.
Ford might elect to again to drop the V8 (Xr8) but FPV (at this stage) have no such plan.
If Holden retain a V8 option in this segment history will repeat. Ford may as well shut up shop in this country for good.

[Windsor220]

This would be the stupidest thing Ford can do. Even if they are thinking about it, dont be the first to drop it again. Wait and see what happens to Holden. Even if the V6T is the main performance focus, the V8 will stil be wanted by many just like it is now.

The new 5.0l sounds like a good option.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

I am going to throw this one out there, but for gen Y, the importance of the v8 is long gone. Ford suffered before for dropping the v8 in the 80s, but people of my generation whilst liking v8 supercars and impressed by the sound of the v8, are more pragmatic. Two friends of mine have now got xr6T's, i asked them why they didnt get a XR8- got the same answer, too slow, too heavy, not enough modability(is that a word?) , better economy from the 6 . To put it simply young people care about v8's as much- we come from an era in which a car did not need a v8 to get to 100mph- In the old days a v8 was a signifier of a real car, a quick car one with effortless performance, but hell a any turbo 4 has grunt these days as does any N/A 6.

I think a sporty model of the 2010 Focus made in Australia, could be a real winner, especially among young people as long as Ford flogs it as 100% australian. I for one would love a v8 to continue into the future, but i think the future of the v8 say beyond 2015 is seriously in doubt.

You are very correct in that regard. If Ford dropped the V8 it would have little effect on the marketplace and Fords image for the following reasons:

1) Ford vs Holden isn't important anyone. This isn't the 80's anymore with high tariffs and a culture of Ford vs Holden. While we sit here debating Ford vs Holden, Ford and Holden are being absolutely slaughtered by Toyota and Mazda in sales. For the well to do a Fairmont Ghia or Calais isn't desirable anymore. Nobody wants to be Aussie anymore they want to be "European".

2) My generation don't give a stuff about Ford, Holden or V8's. In my Year 12 class of 2006 there was probably 5% Ford and Holden enthusiasts. Half of these were VL enthusiasts which don't really count and this in a country town so I can only imagine what the cities are like. My generation don't know or care about V8's and Falcons and Commodores are considered slow. I've lost count of the number of times ricers have looked down their nose or laughed me off because they have a Daihatsu Charade or a Toyota Corolla or Holden Barina and I have a Ford that would be absolutely "slaughtered" by their "ride". It's a bizarre world I know but apparently the lesss cylinders a car has the faster it goes : Also apparently the performance of a car these days is determined by what the car red lines at and what the speedo reads up to. Unfortunately my Falcon "only" revs to 5500rpm and it's top speed is 220 km/h. Face it modern cars are more about posing than performance thus why the Mistubishi Lancer, BMW 3 series and Toyota Prius are all popular in their respetive demographics.

3)Engines are slowly becoming smaller, more efficient and more compact. I mean what happened to the straight eight of the 50's and the big block of the 60's. V8's were due to be axed in the 90's but it was a drop in the price of oil in the 90's which extended their life. The future is high tech sixes and fours attached to front wheel drive platforms with the possibility of AWD. Sad but true.

Basically there will always be true believers but they are becoming less and less.

[PALE ALE]

It's a worry that some of the younger generation believe the hype that is printed in mag's and shown in movies about turbo powered car's (if it does'nt have a turbo it's slow). I guess it's also to do with today's petrol prices. only being able to afford to run a small 4 cyl probably, as their first car. So dont identify (relate) to v8 powered car. I would also agree that engines have become more efficient and smaller capacity engines offer ample power for everyday driving making the v8 obsolete. but for performance bigger is better(no substitute for cubic inches)look at Robert Patrick's 815ci Mustang(IHRA pro stock), 6.26 et 1/4 mile, no blower,no turbo,no n20, all motor. Then look at the alcohol hemi with a PSI blower on top or nitro hemi with 14/71 roots blower. For pure horse power the v8 is still king

[Wally]

My feel is that most of the "enthusiast" members here don't buy new off the showroom floor. I could be wrong of course.

Traditionally I have bought a new V8 every three or so years. My concerns/bias with buying a Ford V8 would be:

. putting up with the second tier salesman that seem to reside at Ford dealerships;
. the level of support should anything go wrong. My past Ford experience is one of duck shoving and corporate indifference;
. the resale value if they are discontinued;
. the engine delivers abundant torque from low rpm for effortless feel, otherwise it may as well be a six with a hairdryer;
. in my opinion the Falcon body theme has for too long been one for rugged, but conservative Joe Farmer and therefore lacks styling feature for us hip and happening city folk.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by sleekism

You are very correct in that regard. If Ford dropped the V8 it would have little effect on the marketplace and Fords image for the following reasons:

1) Ford vs Holden isn't important anyone. This isn't the 80's anymore with high tariffs and a culture of Ford vs Holden. While we sit here debating Ford vs Holden, Ford and Holden are being absolutely slaughtered by Toyota and Mazda in sales. For the well to do a Fairmont Ghia or Calais isn't desirable anymore. Nobody wants to be Aussie anymore they want to be "European".

2) My generation don't give a stuff about Ford, Holden or V8's. In my Year 12 class of 2006 there was probably 5% Ford and Holden enthusiasts. Half of these were VL enthusiasts which don't really count and this in a country town so I can only imagine what the cities are like. My generation don't know or care about V8's and Falcons and Commodores are considered slow. I've lost count of the number of times ricers have looked down their nose or laughed me off because they have a Daihatsu Charade or a Toyota Corolla or Holden Barina and I have a Ford that would be absolutely "slaughtered" by their "ride". It's a bizarre world I know but apparently the lesss cylinders a car has the faster it goes : Also apparently the performance of a car these days is determined by what the car red lines at and what the speedo reads up to. Unfortunately my Falcon "only" revs to 5500rpm and it's top speed is 220 km/h. Face it modern cars are more about posing than performance thus why the Mistubishi Lancer, BMW 3 series and Toyota Prius are all popular in their respetive demographics.

3)Engines are slowly becoming smaller, more efficient and more compact. I mean what happened to the straight eight of the 50's and the big block of the 60's. V8's were due to be axed in the 90's but it was a drop in the price of oil in the 90's which extended their life. The future is high tech sixes and fours attached to front wheel drive platforms with the possibility of AWD. Sad but true.

Basically there will always be true believers but they are becoming less and less.

Good post. The world is always changing......

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by flappist

Good post. The world is always changing......

Oh another point I forgot to add is the changes in p-plate legislation banning provisional drivers from driving V8 Cars. This I believe will have far reaching effects as this means a whole generation of new drivers will never experience the feel of a V8 and thus will have no desire to buy one.

I think it would be interesting to see the age demographics of XR8 vs XR6 Turbo. Around my area I see a LOT of people in their 20's driving XR6 Turbos but most XR8 drivers I see are in their 40's and 50's. What are other peoples experiences??

If the trend in my town is correct across Australia then you are going to have a situation in 10 years time where all the young people who were buying second hand XR6 Turbos (and turbo Jap imports) will be in their 30's and have a family and a middle management job and I think this will represent a strong market for a future Twin-Turbo V6 Falcon. Unfortunately in ten years time I think a lot of the V8 Falcon demographic will be retiring and a Camry will make more sense. Look what happened to the Fairlane and LTD.

I don't think the Holden boys have it easier though. From observation the SS has a younger buyer demographic (30's??) but the practice of continually upping capacity is going to hurt them once petrol hits $2 with a perception that will be hard to shake. I also wouldn't ignore the strong following for six-cylinder Commodores particularly the Supercharged Ecotec V6 and the VL Turbo. I definately think there is a strong market for a high performance six cylinder market which Holden isn't satisfying.