Optus Customer Service : Indian WTF

[XRated]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

Tried that, doesn't work with Three. They refuse to escalate any calls as their supervisor apparantly always says that they are not taking any calls as they are too busy.

You're not trying hard enough :P I've rang up countless times and always gotten through to the 'supervisor'. If you're firm and keep insisting you will end up getting through to one.. But they're as useless as the next.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Heres a Gem. I can buy an MCSE in New Delhi, and not even sit an exam. Not even attend a class. There are more then enough universities in India where you can also purchase diplomas in the same way.

A piece of paper does not make someone intelligent(that holds true for Australia as well). Especially in a market place where you can buy your qualifications over the counter.

You can do the same here... Just as easily... They are not legit MCSE certs... (they are as legit as Homer putting his name on Ned Flanders's Degree!!)And besides, how long do you think you're gonna last with a fake MCSE?! Do you really think people wont realise that you dont know what you're on about?!

I was also talking about the call centre's here... The company I work is a IT solutions company and most are Indian, Pakistani and Asian. There are a handful of "white" australians. The most qualified are the prior with the latter making up small numbers in lower end of the company... And it is the 2nd largest IT company in Australia I work for...

[irlewy86]

Indinan qualifications aren't worth the toilet paper they are scribbled on.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by kypez

Mate, you're in denial... Just cause you can understand them easier, doesnt mean they are keen to help you...

Indian call centres are the way of the future... Like it or lump it... Indians are being hired in Australian call centres too so before you keep ranting on, get used to it. Indians are smarter and often have far greater qualification than their Aussie counter parts. Just cause they have an accent, doesnt make them any less intelligent...

: I think everyone should get over it really... If you have a problem with it, tell your family and friends to start working in call centers for $10 - $15 a day... then you can have your "Aussies" and the jobs can stay here... : :

OK mate you win. :togo:

Cant wait for the holidays to end, then the forums get back to inteligent, rational threads that arent being trolled by Indians on Visas studying call centre degrees. :

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Ralliart

hey guys, i just rang optus to ask how much money i owe them because i my current bill is overdue, anyway i get through to customer service and get an Indian again WTF : : , we live in Australia not India wtf is optus doing with the customer service now, i don;t think i'm calling them from now on, this has happen for the last few calls, what do you guys think

Geez, where have you been?

I'm shocked when I call a helpdesk of any company and it's routed locally.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Indinan qualifications aren't worth the toilet paper they are scribbled on.

Now there's a brilliant and well thought out comment that reaches to the essence of this little conversation...

Kinda sucks that that toliet paper holding curry muncher is taking your jobs, isnt it?!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by The Monty

OK mate you win. :togo:

Cant wait for the holidays to end, then the forums get back to inteligent, rational threads that arent being trolled by Indians on Visas studying call centre degrees. :

Look at my sig... And location?! Do you think I'm on a visa!? : :

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by kypez

You can do the same here... Just as easily... They are not legit MCSE certs... (they are as legit as Homer putting his name on Ned Flanders's Degree!!)And besides, how long do you think you're gonna last with a fake MCSE?! Do you really think people wont realise that you dont know what you're on about?!

Are you for real? Ever had an employer check the cert numbers on an MCSE? Ring up the university to check the diploma validity? I never have. And as for people not lasting long? With great incompetance seems to come the great skill of coverings ones a s s. And if it was just one faker, thats fine, when its 150 out of 250 in your call center and they are all equally useless, who do you fire? The one with the least amount of diplomas? Maybe they should be evicted like big brother?

I was also talking about the call centre's here... The company I work is a IT solutions company and most are Indian, Pakistani and Asian. There are a handful of "white" australians. The most qualified are the prior with the latter making up small numbers in lower end of the company... And it is the 2nd largest IT company in Australia I work for...

I wonder how much apologizing the lower end of the company does for the upper end of the company.

[AC/DC]

What large company isnt moving its call centre to India...

Who cares really ? If the call centre was in Melbourne its rather high chance that you AINT going to be speaking to an Australian anyway.

GE Creditline have their call centre in india, , so does HP..... and many others.

AC/DC

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by kypez

Now there's a brilliant and well thought out comment that reaches to the essence of this little conversation...

Kinda sucks that that toliet paper holding curry muncher is taking your jobs, isnt it?!

Not taking my job. : And as a discerning consumer I refuse to deal with any business that doesn't give me decent customer service. Needless to say no Optus, no Telstra.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Are you saying the person had poor english skills or just generally having a whinge because they had an accent??

Obviously you don't have to deal with Indian helpdesks that often (helpdesks is a little too kind, I've yet to be given help by one yet but felt much pain due to them).

The main problem with dealing with India is they work off a script. Deviate from the script and expect to be on hold for quite awhile. How do I know they work off a script? I had to travel to Bangalore with a few colleagues to try and refine some of those scripts, much to my objections. On the whole, the person you're talking to isn't trained to solve your problem, particularly if it deviates from their script.

If I call with a problem, I want to at least have the illusion that the person at the other end of the line can help solve it in a timely manner. I have to deal with India a lot (being part of the process for the company I work for) and have to spend an average of 10 minutes answering banal questions that *I* helped fashion before I can talk to 2nd level support (located in Sydney).

[kypez]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Are you for real? Ever had an employer check the cert numbers on an MCSE? Ring up the university to check the diploma validity? I never have. And as for people not lasting long? With great incompetance seems to come the great skill of coverings ones a s s. And if it was just one faker, thats fine, when its 150 out of 250 in your call center and they are all equally useless, who do you fire? The one with the least amount of diplomas? Maybe they should be evicted like big brother?

Ok... so you have no clue what you're talking about and found a technical term like MCSE... nice... Its sad that you dont even understand simple sentence construction... or maybe I need more of an aussie accent while i type...

If you dont know how to work technical systems, you cant "wing it"... There is only so long you can... And being in IT let me tell you, its not very long at all...

Originally Posted by sourbastard

I wonder how much apologizing the lower end of the company does for the upper end of the company.

bahahaha... I meant the lesser jobs... Like call receipt... Job that a trained monkey can do... the ones that require less skill and knowledge... Oops, sorry, how were you supposed to get that...

[irlewy86]

Actually I hate dealing with customer service in any other country other than Australia. We speak the most non descript english of any nation.
Operator: How are you today?
Caller: Yeah... not bad.
Operator: How can I help you?
Caller: My computer is bung...
Operator: .... Have you tried removing the bung

[kypez]

.....

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

If you are a multinational, and you outsource offshore, you simply do not care if your customers live or die. Its a bad practice and a myth of economic advantage. The simple fact is, people who hate dealing with your after sales support, DO NOT COME BACK. Also the whole point of after sales or technical support is to be efficient, close cases with good outcomes. Not fill your customers with such dread & frustration that they either dont bother to call, or give up during the call.

Hit the nail on the head there Uncle Bastard.
I recently paid out the finance on my work ute, the large finance company i was with outsourced to India.
Not only did i have trouble understanding the people on the phone, i had to give them all my private information as well.

Try getting a fax promised the next day, try 3 days later after numerous phone calls and the local bank waiting for said info to refinance the house.
I will not ever use that company again.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by kypez

Indian call centres are the way of the future... Like it or lump it... Indians are being hired in Australian call centres too so before you keep ranting on, get used to it. Indians are smarter and often have far greater qualification than their Aussie counter parts. Just cause they have an accent, doesnt make them any less intelligent...

Wow, they are?

The company I work for would love you to scout out these higher qualified Indians in Bangalore. Currently, the requirement for 1st level support for the company I work for is that they can read English and speak it reasonably fluently.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by kypez

Sorry, didnt know you were a coal miner...

hahaha close, Iron Ore.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

If you are a multinational, and you outsource offshore, you simply do not care if your customers live or die. Its a bad practice and a myth of economic advantage. The simple fact is, people who hate dealing with your after sales support, DO NOT COME BACK. Also the whole point of after sales or technical support is to be efficient, close cases with good outcomes. Not fill your customers with such dread & frustration that they either dont bother to call, or give up during the call.

110% correct. I have to deal with exactly that every single day. We have an exemption list for legal reasons (government and defence have to be dealt with locally and not sent to India) but local support is being hired weekly to cope with the demand of technical account managers sick of their sites complaining about our inept call centre being run out of India.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Wow, they are?

The company I work for would love you to scout out these higher qualified Indians in Bangalore. Currently, the requirement for 1st level support for the company I work for is that they can read English and speak it reasonably fluently.

Funny you should mention Bangalore cause I spent 6 years there and have been part of the development of IT company's such as Oracle, Microsoft, Infosys, Novell, IBM, Phillips... I think you get the idea...

Before you say they cant speak english, grammer is complusary there and english is not an optional subject like here... Have you read some of the post's on this forum and the total lack of command over the english language... Most people dont know the difference between effect and affect... read through the posts and find all the their's that have been typed as there's...

No point being smart about it... Its the way the world is going... And mindless bigotry is no solution...

Besides, arguing over the internet is like banging your head on a wall... We should continue this discussion at the next all ford day or at the FPV day in melbourne...

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by kypez

Ok... so you have no clue what you're talking about and found a technical term like MCSE... nice... Its sad that you dont even understand simple sentence construction... or maybe I need more of an aussie accent while i type...

That's comedy GOLD!

[irlewy86]

A perfect example of poor customer srvice is the banking and finance industry. Remeber in the late 90's when they tried shutting as many branches as possible. Now in the last few years there has been a rush to improve customer service (longer hours, more branches, better trained and equipped call centres). All these companies that outsource offshore will eventually bring thier operations back when customers vote with thier feet.

[Van D]

It does make you wonder doesn't it? First off, i'm all for a multicultural country but have to agree with the majority in this thread. I don't care what ethnic background they are from, but if they can't understand or talk English it's just damn frustrating (even the ones from call centers in Australia). I went into the ATO office last week and was called to the desk of an Indian lady. Was no problem until I started explaining things about my tax and couldn't understand a word she was saying despite how I tried. An "Aussie" guy came over to help and things were sorted out quick smart.
Same thing happens at my work with a new guy who got a place there because he had prior experience in the workforce.. Can't understand a word from him (he is of asian descent) and he can't read or write English very well at all. I feel bad for him trying to get around the workplace but it's also frustrating.

And I got agree with Sourbastard and others about the Uni degree's. My sis just finished doing psychology last year and was telling me about an Indian guy who had deffered over from India. He had a piece of paper saying he'd done the right level of stuff but in a totally different country he didn't know what was going on, nor could he talk English very well. You only have to watch Border Patrol to see the amount of people who have earned 'degrees' in another country come over and fail to tick the organic products or food box on the customs card because they can't read or understand it.

[mcnamg]

Anyone who thinks speaking to an Australian makes things easier is kidding themselves. I worked for Westpac for 2 and a bit years in a range of different roles all in a Call Centre and got to observe the Phone Banking staff in action and lets just say its not pretty.

We had a lot of indian workers in the call centre and must say they were no better or worse than the australians. They had as little knowledge as the Aussies but better work ethic. Almost all staff would go out of their way to spend as little time taking calls as possible. Nobody would correct mistakes or ask for help rather they would just lie to the customers as they werent trained to answer the questions they were being asked. Most of the people they hired were 17 or 18 years old and were too dumb to get into uni and too lazy to work on the mines and saw the job as a paid holiday or in their late 40's and had never touched a computer before. Needless to say that staff turnover was enourmous in the 2 years that I was in the call centre they had 4 centre managers I had 6 Team Leaders and the 12 people I trained with I was the 2nd last person to leave. They have a 50% loss rate within the first 6 months of hiring staff.

I recently called up my wifes old section (she used to work at Westpac too) to get my Contents insurance sorted out as we have moved and the guy who she spoke to managed to cancel our existing policy which was not what he was asked to do and had to ring head office to get it reinstated and then once he did that he had to remove the contents keep the building and set up a new contents policy at the new address. He managed to get through this and set it all up ok but my wife was sure that it was too cheap so she messaged someone she knew who was still working there who checked it over and found he had made 3 mistakes on the policy. So a simple call which should have taken 5 minutes took 1 hour and a couple of text messages to fix up.

Really it doesnt matter whether the call centre is in Australia or India the result is the same a bad experience for the caller. In Australian call centres they dont or cant employ more staff so they just threaten the staff and force them to work harder which has the opposite effect and they treat callers like poop. And in India there are plenty of people to speak to but they either dont know what they are doing or you cant understand them.

I think call centres are horrible as nobody is accountable and the companies advise you not to give out your surname so it makes it harder for people to complain and especially as most calls arent recorded there is no proof and the company will side with its employee.

Call centre workers are like Battery Hens really horrible job I wouldnt wish upon my worst enemy.

Someone mentioned Tasmania as being the location of a call centre. Westpac and Virgin have centres there simply because there are fewer employment opportunities there so they end up getting better quality staff. Whenever I ring Westpac I pray I dont get a WA call centre as due to the low levels of unemployment they seem to be hiring anyone off the street to work there.

anyway end rant as you can see I hate call centres with a passion after having spent 2 years of hell working in one

[svo347]

Deleted ... no need to reply

[clontarf_x]

Originally Posted by Ralliart

hey guys, i just rang optus to ask how much money i owe them because i my current bill is overdue, anyway i get through to customer service and get an Indian again WTF : : , we live in Australia not India wtf is optus doing with the customer service now, i don;t think i'm calling them from now on, this has happen for the last few calls, what do you guys think

Racist.

But anyway, most large companies use overseas callcentres. It's cheaper. That's the bottom line.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by kypez

Before you say they cant speak english, grammer is complusary there and english is not an optional subject like here... Have you read some of the post's on this forum and the total lack of command over the english language... Most people dont know the difference between effect and affect... read through the posts and find all the their's that have been typed as there's...

No point being smart about it... Its the way the world is going... And mindless bigotry is no solution

Firstly, don't put words in my mouth.

Mindless bigotry has nothing to do with it. When I have a problem, I want to speak to a problem solver. A problem solver is a free thinking, trained and confident individual. I'm a problem solver and can spot another problem solver a mile away.

Thusfar in my several personal and MANY professional dealings with call centres in India, I could count on one hand how many problem solvers I've actually dealt with.

For example:

Placed a call to 1st level support (India) to find out whether there was a known problem with a utility we use to update a tape library controller. Saturday morning on a high exposure customer...

Me: I'm attempting to upgrade firmware on a (insert model here) using (insert software here) on a Red Hat 4 server and it causes a kernel panic, can you check for known issues please...?

India: I will send you a document on how to install a tape drive under Linux, can I have your email address please.

Me: I don't need that document, it's already installed, I'm attempting to upgrade the firmware on a (insert model here) using (insert software here) and it's causing the server to kernel panic. Can you check for known issues, please.

India: If you give me your email address I can send you a document on how to install a tape drive.

<click>

Brought down another server, installed the Windows version of the software and upgraded it that way. That's not an uncommon level of service from out call centre in India. Tape drive doesn't power up, upgrade firmware. Redundant power supply failed, upgrade firmware. Is it the way of the future? I hope not, our management know it's a farce, out customers are screaming... it's only a matter of time before the cycle moves away from India.. again!

[mcnamg]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

A perfect example of poor customer srvice is the banking and finance industry. Remeber in the late 90's when they tried shutting as many branches as possible. Now in the last few years there has been a rush to improve customer service (longer hours, more branches, better trained and equipped call centres). All these companies that outsource offshore will eventually bring thier operations back when customers vote with thier feet.

now they have the issue of badly placed call centres and not being able to find staff for the meagre $$ they are paying

My wife worked for Westpac Insurance and when they hired her a year ago they had 24 staff in the team in the same month 8 people quit and they werent allowed to hire any more staff for 6 months so they were short staffed so staff were overworked and tired and service levels were crap. They then hired 6 more staff but 6 people quit as they had had enough of the crap conditions so things didnt get any better. Then they got smart and decided to employ 12 people and same thing happened 8 people quit but they only managed to employ about 6 people and one of them quit on the second day. My wife has since left but is in contact with others who are still there and apparently there is only 10 staff still there in a team that is meant to have 24 staff. They have another team in SA as well but they dont have any issues hiring staff there due to higher unemployment and the quality of the staff seem better. They are considering shutting up shop in WA and moving the whole lot to SA as due to the lack of skilled staff here (due to so many other employers hiring them and paying much more $$$). Banks are the worst offenders they talk about how they look after you and keep their services local but what they dont tell you is that they treat their staff like crap underpay them and instruct them to screw the clients as much as they can under the banner of supposed needs based selling. They arent fulfilling your needs but the needs of the shareholders.

Banks call centre staff work on scorecards for example Telephone banking staff must open 30 accounts a month refer 2 clients to a financial planner (the client actually has to attend the meeting for it to count) and get 4 clients to take out contents or home insurance as well as get 6 clients to either top up their home loan get a new home loan or take out a personal loan or take out another credit card. Some of the methods people use to achieve these scorecards are appalling.

As I said my wife worked in the insurance area and they used to get leads from the phone banking people of customers who supposedly wanted insurance. They would then have to cold call them to sell them the insurance. Problem was the phone banking people most of the time didnt have the customers permission to do this as they normally dont even want insurance or they had wanted insurance but had said they would call later. So to give you an example of how depressing a job it is to be an outbound caller in insurance they need to sell 290 policies per quarter and call about 500 people a week and of those 500 people they call (whom they may attempt to contact 3 times) they may get 5 sales. So they never get a bonus. Adding insult to injury they are meant to try and sell these customers credit cards or refer them to a financial planner even though the phone banking person has most probably already done this most likely without the clients knowledge. All of this in the pursuit of the banks ever increasing thirst for profits.

Scorecards are designed so that only 10% of people might actually get them and even then the bonuses are pitiful and then the 90 percent who dont get them are in fear for the next 3 months praying they meet this time so they dont get performance managed or fired. So most just take the easy option and quit. So the cycle starts over again with fresh meat

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Firstly, don't put words in my mouth.

Mindless bigotry has nothing to do with it. When I have a problem, I want to speak to a problem solver. A problem solver is a free thinking, trained and confident individual. I'm a problem solver and can spot another problem solver a mile away.

Thusfar in my several personal and MANY professional dealings with call centres in India, I could count on one hand how many problem solvers I've actually dealt with.

For example:

Placed a call to 1st level support (India) to find out whether there was a known problem with a utility we use to update a tape library controller. Saturday morning on a high exposure customer...

Me: I'm attempting to upgrade firmware on a (insert model here) using (insert software here) on a Red Hat 4 server and it causes a kernel panic, can you check for known issues please...?

India: I will send you a document on how to install a tape drive under Linux, can I have your email address please.

Me: I don't need that document, it's already installed, I'm attempting to upgrade the firmware on a (insert model here) using (insert software here) and it's causing the server to kernel panic. Can you check for known issues, please.

India: If you give me your email address I can send you a document on how to install a tape drive.

<click>

Brought down another server, installed the Windows version of the software and upgraded it that way. That's not an uncommon level of service from out call centre in India. Tape drive doesn't power up, upgrade firmware. Redundant power supply failed, upgrade firmware. Is it the way of the future? I hope not, our management know it's a farce, out customers are screaming... it's only a matter of time before the cycle moves away from India.. again!

Fair call... That is stupid... But that is a technical skill issue... Not really their english... my one and only issue is when people say that people are stupid when they speak with a foreign accent and they think that they are getting better service when they hear someone with an aussie accent!? Thats my issue...

I've actually worked with friend who lead these indian call centres... Its a tough job... They have very set questions/procedures that must be completed no matter how irrelevant they might seem. And when you are in a job that thousands of people are competing for, you do just that... They would have a script telling them check firmware... And thats what they do... No matter what they think otherwise, it is one question that requires answer and they do take it too literally at times... Its just as tough for them to understand our aussie accents as it is for us. In reverse, we actually support some Indian divisions of our company, and its tough... REAL Tough... Indians are exposed to the American accent all the time but have little to no exposure of the aussie accent... To make it worse, the aussie accent is one of the toughest (actually rated at number 3 in the world) accents to understand...

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that being rough and short with them is no solution. The companies you use for your consumables are all going to india, its just the way it will be, with many of these contract already signed for long periods of times. Its the only way companies can give you $1000 worth of calls for only $100 (mobile caps, home line caps)... If anything, most of them (I've had dealings with) are eager to learn and like nothing more than a "fair go"...

Getting on a forum saying degree's are worth nothing, they can be bought for money are not conducive arguments to be entertained by the masses... I'll be honest, I've really had less help from our aussie counterparts than the ones in India. They always seemed to care more "in their own way"...

[smciner1]

This Thread has been closed due to Technical Issues. Please feel free to call our Wedgedale Call Centre for any clarification.

:

[Casper]

thank you come again