Now Qantas 3000 jobs to go

[ebxr8240]

I guess everyone on here complaining about unions ? Earn less than Asian employees ?

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

I guess everyone on here complaining about unions ? Earn less than Asian employees ?

No but some of us work 7 days a week to get where we have. We don't work 38 hour weeks and expect to have a 5 bedroom house and a new car every 3 years.

There's too many low skilled workers that think they are worth more then what they really are. The unions only fuel this affair.

[350125GO]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

No but some of us work 7 days a week to get where we have. We don't work 38 hour weeks and expect to have a 5 bedroom house and a new car every 3 years.

There's too many low skilled workers that think they are worth more then what they really are. The unions only fuel this affair.

Blame the bourgeois, not the proletariat. You think the Rineheart's of this world are really worth billions of dollars, and she justs works that much harder than everyone else?

[05_ENFORCER]

Originally Posted by 350125GO

Blame the bourgeois, not the proletariat. You think the Rineheart's of this world are really worth billions of dollars, and she justs works that much harder than everyone else?

It is amazing what one can do with someone else's money...............



.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

He must go NOW!! Without any golden handshake or whatever, he doesn't deserve anything. The groundings in 2011 by him was pure and plain vandalism. Now he cuts 5000 jobs and wants money from the government! Ludicrous.

Have a read of this article. I don't normally agree with unionists, but this is an exception.

And I certainly hope the government doesn't give the airline a red cent. When they helped Qantas by dictating who should buy Ansett back in the 1990's, led to the demise of that airline. I can see why Virgin is worried.

Mr Joyce is apparently going to get a big bonus for all his good work at Qantas

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

That's bullshit gtfpv.. Just unlucky timing for the Libs... Don't forget who and where the unions come from! The same unions that make labour too expensive and uncompetitive! As for a good news subject Bunnings will be employing an extra 6000 people in qld.

that's great dash . just have to get my kids to change their aviation ambitions to forklift driver /stacker at bunnings .
oh and i was talking about the govt . not unions they dont run the country . and if they were , i'd consider voting for them . what have we got left to lose right !!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by cheap

So who exactly are these 85 people that seem to be the nexus of all evil, name them.

I'm surprised you don't know . considering thats where the money is . wouldnt people who know so much about the economic woes , and how the unions are responsible for controlling all of our money downfalls atleast know who has it all . ? 2 of the 85 woiuld have to be Bill shorten and Julia Gillard , oh and Andrew Thomson right ?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

No but some of us work 7 days a week to get where we have. We don't work 38 hour weeks and expect to have a 5 bedroom house and a new car every 3 years.

There's too many low skilled workers that think they are worth more then what they really are. The unions only fuel this affair.

HMMMM putting yourself into a minority hey . other peoples houses and gfood just fall into thier lap from full time work eh !!! . sorry you have to work hard . nobody else is . maybe thats the problem .plenty of work there but nobody to do it . exactly what this thread is about . oh and thats right the unions .responsible for cancer .
oh and did you see a great murdoch news channel this morning when a well known presenter was laughing from ear to ear announcing that the days of entitlement are over . sounds like he wants more homeless people in this country . seemed very happy

[cheap]

Unemployment rising, major businesses failing/closing/terminal, house prices inexplicably rising, stock market inexplicably rising, wages too high, corrupt union leaders, high exchange rate, massive low/middle class welfare, over blown public service, multiple unfunded multi-billion dollar election promises, aging population, too many people aspiring to things beyond their means or intellect, massive government debt, generally being taxed to buggery. Call me old fashioned but these economic signals only mean one thing. Australia is in for one hell of a massive correction.

Of course I could be wrong, so could someone point me to the pipeline of investment that our former "worlds greatest treasurer" said would save us...

[ltd]

So many commenting on Qantas and so many who haven't got a clue.
This is getting as bad as PPrune.
Alan Joyce is an idiot, and has systematically ruined the airline - he hasn't done it alone, and his nemesis in the union Steve Pervenis has an equal share of the blame for his attempts to shut down the airline several times.

Simply put, Alan Joyce only has experience in low cost carrier models, not legacy carriers. That, and his fixation with balance sheets and not the future of the airline is why the board selected him over John Borgetti and now the airline is ruined. Alan Joyce would prefer all of QF to disappear and be replaced by Jetstar. This is no secret, the 787 pilots (all senior capt) are on less than half of the A380 capt in QF. Both are doing long haul with all the BS that ensues. QF can't charge twice as much as JQ because competition in these sectors undermines their load factor, so JQ is doing better than QF.
Fact is, Steve Purvenis doesn't have the QSA to wrap around his unreasonable demands at JQ so he just pins his flag to the mast undermining QF with the idiotic CEO falling for it every time. Just go ask any of the engineers how their "Solidarity Brother" thing worked out for them (the fuggers at the time like Doug Cameron certainly didn't lose their job when the lame's did, love how they can shut down a site, cause irreparable damage and carry on).
Once the QSA is repealed EQ will buy the remaining and we'll literally no longer be able to fly to London without stopping in Dubai (unless you fly BA). Most jobs will go, and the national airline will be in name only as EQ crews will operate the international ops first, then domestic. The QF widebody fleet will head to Victorville and be replaced by EQ aircraft which are serviced in Dubai.
Bye bye QF of old.
Virgin is rapidly becoming the nations carrier, because QF is a dinosaur and like Ansett which was over-regulated to ridiculous levels, no one wants to pay $800.00 to fly YSSY-YBBN. It's sad to see it go, but it's what the leprechaun douchebag promised the board he'd do when GD left, and so it has come to pass.
To bastardise the former ad:
"The spirit of Mohamed, the flying Camel-Roo".

[Trump]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

No but some of us work 7 days a week to get where we have. We don't work 38 hour weeks and expect to have a 5 bedroom house and a new car every 3 years.

There's too many low skilled workers that think they are worth more then what they really are. The unions only fuel this affair.

No matter the skill or qualification level, everyone that makes an effort and works diligently deserves a living wage, not a subsistence one. You'll find that most of these delusions of grandeur disappear once one is able to put food on the table, a roof over his head and put a little away.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by ltd

So many commenting on Qantas and so many who haven't got a clue.
This is getting as bad as PPrune.
Alan Joyce is an idiot, and has systematically ruined the airline - he hasn't done it alone, and his nemesis in the union Steve Pervenis has an equal share of the blame for his attempts to shut down the airline several times.

Simply put, Alan Joyce only has experience in low cost carrier models, not legacy carriers. That, and his fixation with balance sheets and not the future of the airline is why the board selected him over John Borgetti and now the airline is ruined. Alan Joyce would prefer all of QF to disappear and be replaced by Jetstar. This is no secret, the 787 pilots (all senior capt) are on less than half of the A380 capt in QF. Both are doing long haul with all the BS that ensues. QF can't charge twice as much as JQ because competition in these sectors undermines their load factor, so JQ is doing better than QF.
Fact is, Steve Purvenis doesn't have the QSA to wrap around his unreasonable demands at JQ so he just pins his flag to the mast undermining QF with the idiotic CEO falling for it every time. Just go ask any of the engineers how their "Solidarity Brother" thing worked out for them (the fuggers at the time like Doug Cameron certainly didn't lose their job when the lame's did, love how they can shut down a site, cause irreparable damage and carry on).
Once the QSA is repealed EQ will buy the remaining and we'll literally no longer be able to fly to London without stopping in Dubai (unless you fly BA). Most jobs will go, and the national airline will be in name only as EQ crews will operate the international ops first, then domestic. The QF widebody fleet will head to Victorville and be replaced by EQ aircraft which are serviced in Dubai.
Bye bye QF of old.
Virgin is rapidly becoming the nations carrier, because QF is a dinosaur and like Ansett which was over-regulated to ridiculous levels, no one wants to pay $800.00 to fly YSSY-YBBN. It's sad to see it go, but it's what the leprechaun douchebag promised the board he'd do when GD left, and so it has come to pass.
To bastardise the former ad:
"The spirit of Mohamed, the flying Camel-Roo".

ltd


I FEEL extremely sad reading that . i've always respected in high authority qantas australian airline pilots

[ltd]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

ltd


I FEEL extremely sad reading that . i've always respected in high authority qantas australian airline pilots

Qf pilots are the best in the world. Simply put, qf32's success is purely because of the pilots. When the same conditions are loaded in the sim the sim chokes, so it can't be replicated. I have worked in the USA and can tell you qf pilots are the best. Don't take my word for it, John Travolta got a 744 endorsement from qf and he said it was the hardest course he's ever done. It's sad to say but I hope aj gets lost soon, and both him and his boyfriend are forced to stop over in Dubai. I hear they treat suspected alternative lifestyle couples well, at least as well as they treat single women.

[ebxr8240]

Seems gov owned in overseas airlines subsidise to a point of cheap fuel in Middle East very low tax on employees . Tmk we still have gov tax's on our tickets. ..the bums on seats to break even is around 72% yet most flights are way over 85% it seems at higher level of Qantas they want there cheaper devision to take over !! Bleeding Qantas to
Make them look good while getting funds off the gov !!

[Madaya]

Damn, I've always wanted to fly PanAm. They where there in 2001 a Space Odyssey. Just like TAA and Ansett, see ya later Qantas.
Damn (number 2), surely this is were the buck stops. We have an internationally acclaimed airline, it represents what is the best about Australia. Our pilots are the best, our planes are the best, serviced by the best engineers using the best parts. I wouldn't mind sending a few of dollars of my tax towards a truly National Airline, it's my little thumbs up to the world.
Is it really that hard. Are we, as tax payers, not allowed to own anything? Do we have to sell off all our assets to overseas (no words to describe these inhuman monsters) to be seen as 'democrats'?
I don't care your Religion, your Race, just your concerns for your children's future. Australia for Australians.
or...
Australia for the benefits of the Multinationals.
Start with Qantas and other things might fall into line.
That said, 'see ya Qantas', she's gone.

[karj]

Repeal of the QSA in this term of Government is a 50/50 chance.

Certainly wouldn't get through the current Senate, and assuming the WA Senate elections are upheld, it may not get through after July either.

Labor, Greens and Palmer are all strongly against it, providing 37 of the 39 required votes to block it. Assuming Ricky Muir upholds the Palmer voting bloc alliance, that's another vote and Xenophon has indicated a reluctance to consider the bill unless Qantas management is sacked. So that's the magical 39...

However, David Leyonhjelm and Bob Day support the repeal, which gives the LNP 35 of the required 39 senate votes. Given that we can't be sure how Muir and Xenophon will vote, and we don't yet know the position of the other senators, it's going to be a very close vote.

If the QSA repeal doesn't get through, I can see it being set up as one of the major issues at the next election.

[Trump]

Confirmed:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/av...227-33k03.html

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/national/your...-1226839429716

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by zilo

News limited is a joke mate....wouldn't **** on them if they were on fire

They got this one right thou, didn't they ?

[DJR-351]

Also.....Qantas has confirmed it has reached agreement to sell its long-term lease on its terminal at Brisbane Airport for $112 million. The lease was due to expire in 2018.....

http://www.theage.com.au/business/av...227-33jab.html

......Qantas remains in discussions to sell its lease on domestic terminals at Sydney and Melbourne airports in a move which could raise as much as $650 million......

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-chase...port-terminals

Sounds like a fire sale......

[cheap]

Regardless of what happens even an overnight freak of nature enabling Qantas to become the only airline in the entire world, I suspect Joyce will be shown the door.

[zoesgift]

the only people to blame is MANAGEMENT. its a stock exchange listed company that answers to share holders. you don't just realise a trading loss of 252million AND give management and 82% increase in the last 2 yrs ffs! when you have a multi million dollar turnover business or any business for that matter, cash flow is of massive importance. the supposed management would have profit and loss statements for every month....this didn't just appear. now they wish to shed jobs in the areas that are profitable

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by cheap

Regardless of what happens even an overnight freak of nature enabling Qantas to become the only airline in the entire world, I suspect Joyce will be shown the door.

But at what cost? unless their going to jail the majority of CEO's that get shown the door usually pass through it with a huge smile on their face......

[jpblue1000]

Perhaps in a pure brilliant piece of capatalist manuvering the qantas leadership has placed quantas where it intended. Nothing they have done suggests they have the notional 'nations carrier' best interests at heart. No notions of tradition, history or meaning to australia. I believe they are trying to kill it or wound it for a higher purpose...profit.
The qantas sales act of 1992 prevents wholesale ownership of qantas from outside australia and places severe restricions on it as a business, but if that causes hardship on the company, ie years of significant losses the law could be challengedand may be changed and sale of the domestic branch could occur.
at the same time the company creates another branch, Jetstar and tiger, transfers cost of these airlines onto qantas to make the spreadsheet look worse or better depending on who you are and where your looking and from what vantage point.
Utilise a different fleet of aircraft so you can pay less than the qantas staff and start to transfer code share across from qantas to the at least jetstar cheaper to operate airline building a stronger brand. Build jetstar up at the expense of qantas, let the latter die, have the laws changed sell qantas assets and concentrate on jetstar with lower costs, less restriction and greater access to overseas funding than qantas would ever have.
A market ploy to kill of the handicapped big brother (qantas) and divert the business to beter profit.

?????

JP

[ltd]

Qantas will never move forward under Joyce and the current board - all of them need to be sacked last week.
Why is Qantas stuffed now? Simple - Greed.
Greed of the board, greed of the shareholders and greed of the parasitic union.

As the news of Qantas' inevitable demise comes to pass, it pays to reflect on just how Alan Joyce became CEO.
With the tenure of Geoff Dixon coming to an end, the board of directors of Qantas held several meetings to try to find a new CEO.
They narrowed it down to two candidates; the then CEO of Jetstar Alan Joyce, and the second in command at Qantas John Borghetti.
Both men wanted the top job and as part of their applications were required to present to the board why they'd be the better CEO.

John Borghetti went in to the presentation outlining what was needed, what fleet decisions they would make such as replacing the fleet with more fuel efficient planes like the 787 on more routes more often, what maintenance facilities were required to be restructured so as to sell heavy maintenance to other airlines, what kind of partnership to form with group incentives for various government departments, and where the future of the airline would be - based on his 25 years tenure in Qantas and his extensive knowledge of the airline. They were all impressed. Geoff Dixon was incredibly impressed.

Then, Alan Joyce went in to the meeting with a single promise - I can make you more money. We'll shut down anything which is not profitable and get a better dividend for our share holders. We'll suspend future fleet purchases to make the balance sheet look good and the share price will skyrocket. The stupid board were really impressed and went with Alan Joyce.

Of the two options, one was strategic in its genius of building the brand, the other was just about rationalisation.
The JB plan was focussed on the core strengths of loyalty, patriotism and national pride in the airline, AJ's plan was fraught with danger and certain to draw the ire of the greedy unions. In fact, Alan Joyce had a history with many heavy-weights in the union like Steve Purvenis, and some speculate it was time for a rematch.

The rest is history and the rejection of the JB plan saw the board of Virgin Blue (at the time) go on a scouting mission.
Funny how the guy who lived, breathed and loved Qantas was let go and has since turned a budget carrier into a legacy airline with more domestic movements a day than Qantas; yet the boards choice has seen a once profitable airlines share prices hit junk status and falling.
I won't go into what reprehensible things the union did to damage Joyce and Qantas but suffice to say, Joyce and the boards greed combined with the greed of the unions has set the "Perfect Storm" conditions to see the demise of the national carrier to the point where thousands of loyal customers have turned away.

BTW, the Joyce plan today to save 2 billion over the next two years is based on Qantas not losing any market share - is he mad? He is putting smaller aircraft on routes and cutting routes. How can you make X dollars per flight with an 85-90% load factor and then put an aircraft with half the capacity on the same route and expect to make the same money? Further, he is expecting no customer backlash? Or backlash from the unions?
Bye bye Qantas, I shall shed a tear when OEF goes to KVCV.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Perhaps in a pure brilliant piece of capatalist manuvering the qantas leadership has placed quantas where it intended. Nothing they have done suggests they have the notional 'nations carrier' best interests at heart. No notions of tradition, history or meaning to australia. I believe they are trying to kill it or wound it for a higher purpose...profit.
The qantas sales act of 1992 prevents wholesale ownership of qantas from outside australia and places severe restricions on it as a business, but if that causes hardship on the company, ie years of significant losses the law could be challengedand may be changed and sale of the domestic branch could occur.
at the same time the company creates another branch, Jetstar and tiger, transfers cost of these airlines onto qantas to make the spreadsheet look worse or better depending on who you are and where your looking and from what vantage point.
Utilise a different fleet of aircraft so you can pay less than the qantas staff and start to transfer code share across from qantas to the at least jetstar cheaper to operate airline building a stronger brand. Build jetstar up at the expense of qantas, let the latter die, have the laws changed sell qantas assets and concentrate on jetstar with lower costs, less restriction and greater access to overseas funding than qantas would ever have.
A market ploy to kill of the handicapped big brother (qantas) and divert the business to beter profit.

?????

JP

One mistake in your post, Qantas didn't start or own Tiger, Singapore did.
That said, you are right on the money regarding the QSA, a piece of legislation imposed upon a business 22 years ago which made sense then, but the emergence of fierce competition from the middle east and asia has seen a desperate need for the act to be scrapped.
What better way to scrap it when you have politicians so aligned with the union there is no other way to have it repealed?

[Adamz Ghia]

I'm all for the sale act, I believe we need a national carrier. But in saying that, if the government is going to legislate a limit on ownership of the airline then the government needs to back it, can't have it both ways.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Utilise a different fleet of aircraft so you can pay less than the qantas staff

At the end of the day, if people are willing to work for Jetstar for less than Qantas pay, it suggests that Qantas are paying above the market. Fine if you have the money to do so, not if you don't. What would Qantas bottom line look like if all staff were on the same, lower, rate?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by ltd

One mistake in your post, Qantas didn't start or own Tiger, Singapore did.
That said, you are right on the money regarding the QSA, a piece of legislation imposed upon a business 22 years ago which made sense then, but the emergence of fierce competition from the middle east and asia has seen a desperate need for the act to be scrapped.
What better way to scrap it when you have politicians so aligned with the union there is no other way to have it repealed?

I thought Tiger came from a period and based on relations where Singapore Airlines and qantas were kanoodling for lack of a better word. but you are right singapore and virgin money there not qantas.
Unless the conspiracy deepens and the benefactor of a poorly domestic qantas is Singapore, a strategy placed in motion duringt he takeover/merger talks back when. Hmmm Tiger to buy qantas domestic.
Will be interesting to see who takes the airports. thegame is afoot!
JP

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by b0son

At the end of the day, if people are willing to work for Jetstar for less than Qantas pay, it suggests that Qantas are paying above the market. Fine if you have the money to do so, not if you don't. What would Qantas bottom line look like if all staff were on the same, lower, rate?

I believe one of the reasons was to prevent cross comparison between pilots, engineers et al. couldnt compare salaries as aircraft were different!

JP