North South Pipeline

[mik]

i worked on a farm for 3 months in merridin WA years ago, and its a real eye opener as to the difference in water use between someone in the city and someone in the bush on tank water, most city people would`nt dream of a 2 minute shower to save their lives, as far as desalination efficient or not, its a good back up we need water point blank no one really knows what the weather is gunna do, that said i blame the pollies for our problems now , we have known for for 15/20 years that our infrastructure for water was only good for 20 million people now were hitting 21 million mark it`s panic stations, industry uses way too much water as well.

[SpoolMan]

Guys have debate keep the personal insults away from this site.
posts have been edited.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 90sFTW

Why don't they make a massive pipeline from a place like QLD that always gets flooded with a massive amount of rain? Rather than stealing it from people even even less water?

Apart from the obvious statements about Qld being in drought too, while water falls big time in Cairns for a couple of months (11ft can fall in Tully in one month, and next to nothing for the next 11), any excess water would best be sent to parts of Qld that need it first. Because its Qld water not Victorian.

Originally Posted by thexyking

This water allocation and Murray Darling system control issue is a nonsense. The reason that Victoria didn't want to sign up is because it would have to reduce the amount of water available out of the Murray darling system for its own farmers. The problem has been created by NSW and Queensland over allocating the available water (Cubby Farms, anyone?) and now the crunch has come with not enough water (and no liklihood of enough) to meet the allocations. The Queensland and NSW state governments just handed the problem back to deal with, Victoria said we don't have the same issues, why should we act against the interest of our farmers?

Interestingly, in September the Victorian Gov]'t and the Federal Gov't did reach an agreement but Howard wouldn't sign.

We've all just got to use less, that it the answer.

And Victorias use of the Murray doesnt effect SA? Its just unfortunate for Victoria they are at the wrong end of that river system, and not where the bulk of the water falls. If the water flowed north, you can bet Qld would be missing out in favour of Victoria.

Originally Posted by mik

i worked on a farm for 3 months in merridin WA years ago, and its a real eye opener as to the difference in water use between someone in the city and someone in the bush on tank water, most city people would`nt dream of a 2 minute shower to save their lives, as far as desalination efficient or not, its a good back up we need water point blank no one really knows what the weather is gunna do, that said i blame the pollies for our problems now , we have known for for 15/20 years that our infrastructure for water was only good for 20 million people now were hitting 21 million mark it`s panic stations, industry uses way too much water as well.

While the last treasurer tells us to have more kids. They keep talking of Australia being able to support a population in excess of 50 million. Ha! It might be a great country with huge land mass, but it doesnt have anywhere near enough water for 50 million people. The current conditions would be everyday conditions, even with better management and improved catchment areas.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by thexyking

This water allocation and Murray Darling system control issue is a nonsense. The reason that Victoria didn't want to sign up is because it would have to reduce the amount of water available out of the Murray darling system for its own farmers. The problem has been created by NSW and Queensland over allocating the available water (Cubby Farms, anyone?) and now the crunch has come with not enough water (and no liklihood of enough) to meet the allocations. The Queensland and NSW state governments just handed the problem back to deal with, Victoria said we don't have the same issues, why should we act against the interest of our farmers?

Interestingly, in September the Victorian Gov]'t and the Federal Gov't did reach an agreement but Howard wouldn't sign.

We've all just got to use less, that it the answer.

I strongly suspect that the Brax government didn't sign the national water agreement because it wouldn't have allowed Melbourne to steal water from north of the great dividing range, water that would flow into the Murray River. What makes matters worse is that the national water agreement would have provided funds to upgrade the Goulburn irrigation system.

It's not surprising that Howard wouldn't sign the ammended agreement, as it would have treated Victoria diffrentlly to all of the other states. How doyou think the other states would have reacted to that.

[Charliewool]

Anyone hear on the radio this morning about the (apparently, well advanced) plan to run twin 2 metre diameter pipelines under Bass straight from Tasmania to Victoria, fed by GRAVITY?
The water source is the mountains in Tassie, which have the highest annual rainfall in Australia. Somewhere around Port Campbell is where the pipes enter Vic.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by charliewool

Anyone hear on the radio this morning about the (apparently, well advanced) plan to run twin 2 metre diameter pipelines under Bass straight from Tasmania to Victoria, fed by GRAVITY?
The water source is the mountains in Tassie, which have the highest annual rainfall in Australia. Somewhere around Port Campbell is where the pipes enter Vic.

Jeez...I would hate to be the bloke holding his breath standing on top of the pipe with the spirit or laser level making sure it's still falling while the other guys are putting the pipe in!

Anyway, tassies "down there"...it can't flow uphill!

[Fryday]

Originally Posted by BFYOOT

i think all the major cities need to look in their own backyards first before pumping water from other areas. just look at storm water, and how much gets washed out to the ocean every time it rains. sure it may not be drinking quality like that, but it must be easier to make it cleaner than it is to turn salt water into fresh..........

Cleaning up storm water isn't that easy. Membranes can't handle hydrocabons so there is a separate process required to start which is an issue unto itself... It would still have to go through the same RO process to make it potable. It's also useless when it doesn't rain - yes it could all be stored but that introduces significant costs for storage facilities (realistically you'd need a dam), pipelines, pump stations, etc, etc

Turning seawater into freshwater is a piece of cake, it just uses a bit of energy to do it. New desal technology is cutting down the energy required and compared to long distance pipeline pumping costs it's relatively cheap.

The only other rain independent bulk water supply alternative is to use highly treated wastewater as the feed for the RO process - which is unpopular with the public.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by XHUTE6

Is the pipeline fibreglass?

No the pipe will be steel with a plastic coating and cement lined. The pipe is prob meant to come from Melbourne, but most likely it'll come form QLD as the plant for manufacturing this pipe is not complete yet.

[ABoringUsername]

Originally Posted by charliewool

Anyone hear on the radio this morning about the (apparently, well advanced) plan to run twin 2 metre diameter pipelines under Bass straight from Tasmania to Victoria, fed by GRAVITY?
The water source is the mountains in Tassie, which have the highest annual rainfall in Australia. Somewhere around Port Campbell is where the pipes enter Vic.

Looked at the dam levels in Tassie lately? we had 16% of our average annual inflows in November....

Ypu could feed it by gravity. but i'm pretty sure once you have paid for it, you could have bought several wastewater treatment plants...

[kempster1]

Originally Posted by troppo

One thing that has always amazed me about living in Darwin is you would be flat out finding a single building that even has guttering, let alone a tank to collect it. Having come from an area of SA that is not on Adelaide's supply and which has been increasingly saline since the 70's I can remember growing up with slogans like "turn it off" and "every drop is precious".

Not so in the NT it seems. I watched my neighbor yesterday washing her dog. She turned on the yard tap flat out and left it running for a good hour and a half. Of every bucket full of water that came out that tap, about 3 drops would've gone into the dog washing while the rest ran down the path (which is angled so the water doesn't run off onto the lawn) around the corner of the house, onto the road and down the stormwater drain. I was tempted to say, why don't you just fill your bath and put your dog in that - like I do, but water isn't really a problem here.

My solution - government subsidises people getting rainwater collection equipment (gutters and tanks) fitted to their houses in monsoon areas across northern Aus. It would all be excess water to us as it currently goes straight to sea. It could then be collected annually and sold wherever they like to offset the cost of the additions. Even a 5000 litre tank per house in Darwin isn't a huge amount of water but it's better than none. Oh and a 5000 litre tank would be overflowing about 3 weeks into wet season

Have a read of the cyclone area building rules and you will find out why there are very little homes in Darwin with guttering and tanks.
It is not as simple as it is in southern states.

[rag top]

We import so much from china - why not add water.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by rag top

We import so much from china - why not add water.

Id probably prefer to drink straight from the toilet?

[troppo]

Originally Posted by kempster1

Have a read of the cyclone area building rules and you will find out why there are very little homes in Darwin with guttering and tanks.
It is not as simple as it is in southern states.

I have. I can also say from seeing first hand that when guttering is used here, it needs to be able to cope with larger volumes (and therefore weight) of water, as well as additional fixings. Underground tanks and problem solved.
Ideally, you would have everyone's houses hooked up to a central collection, similar to sewage or stormwater networks.

Having said that, I realise the proposal is not even close to viable the way things are, but who knows in the future?

[kempster1]

Originally Posted by troppo

I have. I can also say from seeing first hand that when guttering is used here, it needs to be able to cope with larger volumes (and therefore weight) of water, as well as additional fixings. Underground tanks and problem solved.
Ideally, you would have everyone's houses hooked up to a central collection, similar to sewage or stormwater networks.

Having said that, I realise the proposal is not even close to viable the way things are, but who knows in the future?

Big $$$$$

While the Darwin river dam overflows every year it will never happen..

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by rag top

We import so much from china - why not add water.

Channel 7 news investigated this when Peter Beatie Suggested that we will import water when Brisbane runs dry.

A Chinese company was happy to supply water via tanker to our city for 7c a litre. At the current crate of consumption 500,000,000 Litres a day that would cost $35,000,000 a day or $12.7Billon a year.

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Jeez...I would hate to be the bloke holding his breath standing on top of the pipe with the spirit or laser level making sure it's still falling while the other guys are putting the pipe in!

Anyway, tassies "down there"...it can't flow uphill!

It wouldn't have to , as long as the entrance point for the water is higher than the outlet, and no point along the line is higher that the entrance point, the water will always flow through it. Its called syphoning. Since the entre line would be under sea level with the exception of the entrance point high in the mountains, it would be easy to bring the outlet up and out at Vic at levels just above see level.

[troppo]

242mm of rain in 4 hrs yesterday...all down the drain.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by troppo

I have. I can also say from seeing first hand that when guttering is used here, it needs to be able to cope with larger volumes (and therefore weight) of water, as well as additional fixings. Underground tanks and problem solved.
Ideally, you would have everyone's houses hooked up to a central collection, similar to sewage or stormwater networks.

Having said that, I realise the proposal is not even close to viable the way things are, but who knows in the future?

There actually was a feasability study (done last year) to run water from up the top there down south. I'll have to see if I can find it here in the office.

[thexyking]

And Victorias use of the Murray doesnt effect SA? Its just unfortunate for Victoria they are at the wrong end of that river system, and not where the bulk of the water falls. If the water flowed north, you can bet Qld would be missing out in favour of Victoria.

SA draws the short straw whichever way it goes, more and more Adelaide has to do the eqivalent of getting water out of the S bend. I wionder where Coppers gets its water from (the beer tastes too good for it come from the Murray).

[CAMS290]

I have been working up at the North South Pipeline in Glenburn opposite the Liberty Roadhouse, they have started bringing in the steel water pipes and have started to remove grass and put in a "Haul Road" to get construction equipment in.
Like it or not the work has started, and we copped some flack up there yesterday with all sorts of abuse and some people speeding through the 40kph work site on the Melba Hwy (whose rego numbers will be given to the Police)

If this was my prime grazing land i would not be happy either, but each has their own opinion, and the general feeling i got was that we were not welcome.

This pipeline runs from about 50 feet from the main highway and is about 100 feet wide, it will all be buried in the ground and the land will be reinstated to as it was before.

As you can see in the photos where the lovely grazing land finishes and the destruction starts.

[xbgs351]

Are they keeping the top soil separate?

[Tles]

Interesting posts, thanks.

While the Government(s) are pumping so much money into economic holes in the ground, why is it not possible to pour some of that money into real big holes, that can fill up with water afterwards. They don't even let us know how much rainfall was on the water gauge at the farms the Water boards own for future (previously cancelled) dam projects.

With so little overall rain collection periods even in a wet year, perhaps we should be putting out as many buckets as we can.

[vztrt]

Cams is the Pipe from Tyco? and if it is, do you know if its from QLD of VIC?

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Are they keeping the top soil separate?

Yeah mate they are stock piling it, they have also ripped out some beautiful cypress trees to gain access to some properties, and left some standing....they will never look the same

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Cams is the Pipe from Tyco? and if it is, do you know if its from QLD of VIC?

Yeah mate it has "Tyco" stencilled on them with white paint.

They are 14.5 Metres long and they are putting 75 Kilometres of them down....lots of $$$$ for Amoroso Transport

[winkle]

Interesting thread. We don't have access to town water (just outside Ballarat), but have tank water and a bore with high quality water. In the last couple of years, we can live off tank water for at least 6 months of the year, even with low rainfall (we haven't had any decent rain for 2 months). I can't understand why new houses here in Vic don't have compulsory water tanks. Ours is 25,000 litres and although it takes up a bit of room, the water quality is excellent - we use it for everything, including drinking, and don't even need to filter it.

[XR6-VCT-2000]

All we need is one of those H.A.R.P.P weather changing gizmos that messes with the ionosphere like the yanks have !, If you want rain/lightning/hurricanes & earthquakes you got it ! ..lol.

On a serious note though, imo we need more catchments that are more shallow, but cover vast areas of land so we can catch more of the rainfall.

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by XR6-VCT-2000

All we need is one of those H.A.R.P.P weather changing gizmos that messes with the ionosphere like the yanks have !, If you want rain/lightning/hurricanes & earthquakes you got it ! ..lol.

On a serious note though, imo we need more catchments that are more shallow, but cover vast areas of land so we can catch more of the rainfall.

And lose more of the stored water to evaporation.

Take 1 cup of water and tip it on your driveway, and stand another cup of water next to it. Which one evaporates first?

Evaporation is the same per square meter, the more square meters you have the quicker the basin of water evaporates. To store a meaningful amount of water in a shallow catchment requires huge areas of land, all of which is losing water to huge amounts of evaporation.

This is one of the reasons why the Traveston Dam is useless idea in QLD. But its going ahead anyway.

[jcxr]

Camo, heard on the radio this morning that truckies and others involved in this project are being harassed and even local buisness's are not serving them such is their angst over the pipeline.

[CAMS290]

Originally Posted by jcxr

Camo, heard on the radio this morning that truckies and others involved in this project are being harassed and even local buisness's are not serving them such is their angst over the pipeline.

Hi John, I stopped at the Glenburn Roadhouse to meet the contractors that we are working for and they have a reasonably big dining area with a takeaway set up as well, and they were flat out keeping up with the blokes coming in for their lunches.

It is the only fast food place within 30 kays, you either go back to Yarra Glen or keep going to Yea to get food, and funnily enough there were no "Anti Pipeline" propaganda plastered at the Roadhouse like there was everywhere else.

The Roadhouse owners would be loving the extra business for sure !