China's first aircraft carrier 'starts sea trials'

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by Neale

I got an email about what China have in the pipeline as far as aircraft carriers go.

Nice bit of propaganda there.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

I find it interested india also has an aircraft carrier i wasnt aware of this and ive heard india to is ramping up its military assets to deal with a more powerful china it will be interesting to watch when the!

India will be both a long term (50+ years out) trading partner, and defence ally.

China will have three carriers by 2020. Her strategy at containment, and the ability to neutralise by strike, is clever and widespread in application on earth - from Panama to PNG. Carriers are a small but important part of that game of chess.

Anyhow, her growing strength is reason why other SEA nations deploy their newer strike aircraft as close as possible to her, including Indonesia's new fighters - to project into the South China Sea.

China is rapidly emerging as a military power based on its rise as the world’s second-largest economy. It set aside $91.5 billion for this year’s military spending, 12.7 percent up from last year. Beijing is expected to continue the double-digit increase for years to come. In the not-too-distant future, China may surpass America to become the world’s No. 1 military giant.

Some analysys suggest her expenditure is up to 70% greater than reported.
http://eng.mod.gov.cn/

[JG66ME]

India has had the ex HMS Hermes in her fleet since 1995. Hermes was a great ship in good nick and the RN should of kept her. They (the Indians) have just bought one of the ex Soviet carriers and are modifying it extensively.

Hermes was offered to Aus after the UK withdrew the sale of Invincible. Aus turned it down due to its age. Fact was though, it had "few miles on the clock". Unlike HMAS Melbourne. She was in very poor material condition.

[XESP351]

Originally Posted by TruBlu351

Ahh, the good old days when we used to have a carrier!....it'll be 30 years next year when this old girl was retired.....HMAS Melbourne......should have kept it and thrown a few Hornets on 'er

The new LHD's will be similar sized to the old HMAS MELBOURNE, unfortunately they ain't no carriers but they will be the closest we get to having one and will certainly be an impressive bit of kit..

[Neale]

The yanks have been doing this since the end of WW2.

I think they are afraid that all those little kids they used to pick on, have been hitting the gym & they can throw their weight around aswell now.

[hawker]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

This is an ex Russian carrier bought incomplete. They where not supposed to use it for military purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_...carrier_Varyag

That's like handing someone an AK-47 and saying, it just needs a spring, but don't use it as a gun! :P Unless they were going to turn it into razor blades !

Melbourne was very outdated from the get-go, it was falling apart by the 60's (and not just because it kept hitting other ships!) and had to undergo a major refit (where they did a lot of 'other' work)!

I think it was just one of those cases where we didn't want to let it go, at all. I love hearing stories about the HMAS Melbourne early on, my grandfather was part of the commissioning crew. Because it had so many problems early on, the crew were stuck in the UK for a while - so they drank themselves from one side of Europe to the other!

The newer ships coming to the RAN are going to bring some of that aviation capability back (not to the extent of Melbourne and Sydney): http://www.navy.gov.au/Canberra_Class

[Neale]

Originally Posted by hawker

I think it was just one of those cases where we didn't want to let it go, at all. I love hearing stories about the HMAS Melbourne early on, my grandfather was part of the commissioning crew. Because it had so many problems early on, the crew were stuck in the UK for a while - so they drank themselves from one side of Europe to the other!

My pop used to work on the Fairy Gannets. One of his friends told us a story from when they were over in Europe & a bunch of guys were trying to smuggle a heap of french wine back to aus in the bomb bay of a fairy gannet.

only problem was, either the pilot didnt know or forgot. He did a fly past of one of the aerodromes & opened the bomb bay doors as part of the show when all this fancy french wine fell out & went all over the runway.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by hawker

Melbourne was very outdated from the get-go, it was falling apart by the 60's (and not just because it kept hitting other ships!) and had to undergo a major refit (where they did a lot of 'other' work)!

I think it was just one of those cases where we didn't want to let it go, at all. I love hearing stories about the HMAS Melbourne early on, my grandfather was part of the commissioning crew. Because it had so many problems early on, the crew were stuck in the UK for a while - so they drank themselves from one side of Europe to the other!

http://www.navy.gov.au/Canberra_Class

HMAS Sydney and Melbourne where Majestic class ships, along with the Colossus class, (16 in total both classes) where part of a rapid build up during WW2. All of the Majestic class where completed after the war and all where sold off. Most where modified to have an angled deck and they served with many navies around he world.

The fact is they where built to a lower standard than the Illustrious class as the Royal Navy needed ships in quantity and quality was less of a consideration. Having said that many of them have lasted into the 1980s and one Brazilian ship lasted until 2004. They did what they where designed to do.

HMS Theseus, Ocean, Triumph and HMAS Sydney did great things in Korea

A guy I work with served on Melbourne and we often chat about her.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

It set aside $91.5 billion for this year’s military spending, 12.7 percent up from last year

Imagine what the Chinese Government could achieve if they spent that money on the welfare of it's own people......

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Imagine what the Chinese Government could achieve if they spent that money on the welfare of it's own people......

You realise that is only $65 per person?

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by flappist

You realise that is only $65 per person?

Geez, kind of put's things into perspective.

[thedutchman92]

Originally Posted by TruBlu351

Ahh, the good old days when we used to have a carrier!....it'll be 30 years next year when this old girl was retired.....HMAS Melbourne......should have kept it and thrown a few Hornets on 'er

HMAS Melbourne was purchased by China for R & D, hopefully this won't come back to bite us

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by thedutchman92

HMAS Melbourne was purchased by China for R & D, hopefully this won't come back to bite us

Well they purchased the above carrier to use as a casino. Of course we are talking about a country that has no respect for intellectual property either so I can't see how their honesty would be highly regarded as a personal attribute.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by thedutchman92

HMAS Melbourne was purchased by China for R & D, hopefully this won't come back to bite us

The ship was obsolete by the 1980s... and was sold gutted to china.
The only thing they would learn from it is how rust forms.

[Donny]

Originally Posted by flappist

You realise that is only $65 per person?

One day sooner or later, I think China's going to want more land for their population and resource needs.

The Sov carrier they bought is probly going to be used as a test platform for up and coming military technology, and as a way to train pilots for sea operations, form combat doctrines etc, and may become the blueprint for a future class of carrier to suit whatever operations they see fit.
Being an ex Soviet peice of equipment means probly everything in it was antiquated or didnt work anyway, and given todays advances would require a full refit in virtually every area bar the hull and superstructures etc..
To deploy that to sea, they will need frigates and missle cruisers as support, plus bunker tenders if its not a nuc powered plant and jet fuel support tenders etc..

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Donny

The Sov carrier they bought is probly going to be used as a test platform for up and coming military technology, and as a way to train pilots for sea operations, form combat doctrines etc, and may become the blueprint for a future class of carrier to suit whatever operations they see fit.
Being an ex Soviet peice of equipment means probly everything in it was antiquated or didnt work anyway, and given todays advances would require a full refit in virtually every area bar the hull and superstructures etc..

Just like the Melbourne... when the russians sold their old carrier, its was just a gutted hulk. It wasnt anywhere near operational even when the USSR had it.

[Outbackjack]

Dont worry too much about China. They are building 3 more clones of the old Russian one that they are sea trialling now. China has primitive defence technology compared to the US. Aircraft carriers are very easily sunk......

[ILLaViTaR]

Interesting read as I'm in the market for a project boat myself...

[thedutchman92]

Originally Posted by XESP351

The new LHD's will be similar sized to the old HMAS MELBOURNE, unfortunately they ain't no carriers but they will be the closest we get to having one and will certainly be an impressive bit of kit..

even so the new LHDs will be able to launch small amounts of the VTOL version of the F-35 (if we ever get them) and seahawks. Effectively meaning they will be similar in application to the USMC amphibious light aircraft carriers.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by thedutchman92

even so the new LHDs will be able to launch small amounts of the VTOL version of the F-35 (if we ever get them) and seahawks. Effectively meaning they will be similar in application to the USMC amphibious light aircraft carriers.

We arent buying the VTOL version of the F35... and lord knows we shouldnt buy them at all!

[Badcooky]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

You do realise that China makes (and designs) its own fighters?
Weapons systems, warships, missiles, rockets, radar, satellites etc etc etc...

Basing your assumtions of chinese quality on crappy furniture is dangerous.

Hey as crazy old Josef Stalin once said.
"There's a quality to quantity"
And he had heaps of good big kids toys from about 1943 to 1953,got his sandbox back with them too.

[Pis-ton broke]

and india has a carrier to?, lol. have you seen the build quality of anything from india?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Dont worry too much about China. They are building 3 more clones of the old Russian one that they are sea trialling now. China has primitive defence technology compared to the US. Aircraft carriers are very easily sunk......

One thing to consider is that the Chinese think far more long term than the west.

The British and Portuguese with their 99 year leases on Hong Kong and Macau though they were doing well but all they did was build a whole lot of infrastructure for China.

There have been many technology empires in history; Egypt, Mayans, Romans, Portuguese, British, Russian just to name a few and now USA, technology is transient.

One quarter of all humans are Chinese, to use a quote often repeated on AFF, "there is no replacement for displacement".........

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

One quarter of all humans are Chinese, to use a quote often repeated on AFF, "there is no replacement for displacement".........

You're one in a million, man.

So there is 1300 people in China exactly like you.

[thedutchman92]

Aircraft carriers provide a massive strategic advantage for militaries but would need to be surrounded by ships with a good suite like the American AEGIS system to be effective. For all we know they could be building the next generation of warships in complete secracy.

[JG66ME]

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

and india has a carrier to?, lol. have you seen the build quality of anything from india?

HMS HERMES. Fought in the Falklands. It is a better ship than the Melbourne ever was. Now about to be replaced. Australia turned it down.

Typical arrogant racist type comments. India will have three aircraft carrier battle groups by 2020. And do not say they cannot fight or they are thick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hermes_(R12)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Viraat

India is about to become a world power. Australia is having a BBQ. We are telling ourselves how good we are.

[thedutchman92]

Originally Posted by JG66ME

HMS HERMES. Fought in the Falklands. It is a better ship than the Melbourne ever was. Now about to be replaced. Australia turned it down.

Typical arrogant racist type comments. India will have three aircraft carrier battle groups by 2020. And do not say they cannot fight or they are thick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hermes_(R12)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Viraat

India is about to become a world power. Australia is having a BBQ. We are telling ourselves how good we are.

Agreed, to underestimate is to be foolish. America recognises India's importance which is why America is getting in bed with India

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The Melbourne was old and needed to be retired... Hornets wouldnt fit on its deck at all... but yes was a sad day for aussie naval aviation.

Don't be surprised to one day see fixed wing aircraft on the LHDs when they come online...
They are bigger than Melbourne was too.

Edit---> just realised I missed a page of this thread before I posted.

[thedutchman92]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Don't be surprised to one day see fixed wing aircraft on the LHDs when they come online...
They are bigger than Melbourne was too.

Yeah, even if Australia isn't getting VTOL F-35s the deck will at least be big enough for the STOL version

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Interesting read as I'm in the market for a project boat myself...

I lol'd

Are you going to put a Great Wall or Chery badge on it?