Point-to-point cameras snap 20,000 motorists speeding on the Hume Fwy, MORE COMING!!

[mike_nofx]

Technically, speeding while overtaking is still speeding.

So why wouldn't you?

[2011G6E]

The question that should be...but never is...asked is this: OK, you snapped "20,000 speeders". How many accidents were there in that period on that stretch of road?

If none, or no more than you would expect on a similarly heavily travelled piece of road, then why is the speed limit set so low?

You will of course never hear anyone ask this question of the authorities...

[VICFPV]

I think its time for a statewide protest until action is taken. Until this happens there is no hope.
They might as well set up a direct debit to your bank account so it will be debited when you speed.
Come Vics wake up and stop bending over for these crooks.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Night

So what happens if this GPS thing gets implemented. If go over the speed limit when overtaking you get pinged? I see this causing more road fatalities on the highways.

That would play right into their hands. They would never let a few fatalities get in the way of their money for nothing. They would just deploy more camera's. You Vicstans are really being played for suckers.

Just as a quirky side note. The last NT Guv trialled P2P cameras on the Stuart Hwy back in 2009. They abandoned the idea after too many stray bullets hit the camera's.....

[Night]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Technically, speeding while overtaking is still speeding.

So why wouldn't you?

Correct, but if the car you are overtaking is doing 5-10 klms under the speed limit and you want to overtake them then in reality you want to spend as little time as possible on the wrong side of the road. Not saying you need to floor it but if there are 2 cars in front of you and the second has no intention of overtaking the first (see this all the time) then not going past the speed limit to overtake is just plain stupid.

[joolz]

Originally Posted by Night

So what happens if this GPS thing gets implemented. If go over the speed limit when overtaking you get pinged? I see this causing more road fatalities on the highways.

No not at all . The same as going through a toll way without paying. you don't realise until you receive many fines and cant pay them. Next step would be a notice is that you no longer have a license and after that you may have no job shortly followed by the sheriffs office at your front door. Next thing is thousands of unlicensed drivers being caught by the vans with cams and taking cars off the road. Soon enough there will be very little cars on the road and the carbon emission target will be met will tones of revenue made in the mean time!! After that a pack of smokes with be $50 and a slab of beer will be $100 to make up the tax windfall. Meanwhile pollies are still living it up...

[Outbackjack]

The thing about the GPS system. It costs the US government millions to keep those satellites in the air/space. The average life of a satellite is 5 to 7 years.... The current fleet is already past its use by date. There are no plans to replace them..... The US simply cannot afford it. They will keep the military capabilities serviceable, but the civilian channels are likely to be down graded and eventually shut down. The polititicians in Australia are too stupid to accept this. All they see is a tool to gouge millions of dollars. Perhaps we could all subscribe to the Chinese system that is now functional....

[mike_nofx]

If the GPS system is implemented, couldn't you just use a GPS jammer when you want to speed?

[2011G6E]

One more good reason to remind us all that you should be driving properly, which quite obviously means staring intently at your speedo instead of doing stupid distracting things like looking out the window and monitoring traffic around you...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

The thing about the GPS system. It costs the US government millions to keep those satellites in the air/space. The average life of a satellite is 5 to 7 years.... The current fleet is already past its use by date. There are no plans to replace them..... The US simply cannot afford it. They will keep the military capabilities serviceable, but the civilian channels are likely to be down graded and eventually shut down. The polititicians in Australia are too stupid to accept this. All they see is a tool to gouge millions of dollars. Perhaps we could all subscribe to the Chinese system that is now functional....

Actually they will never let it degrade as they will then lose control of navigation.
13 years ago when the yanks still had all the selective accuracy private companies were starting to build commercial GPS receivers that ran on the Russian system rather than the yank one.
This set off a huge panic as if it had gone head then the Russians would be in control of all non military navigation in the world and yanks do not like not being in control of, well everything really.
If the current system were to be no longer viable apart from the huge problem with aviation as the vast majority of terrestrial navaids have been shutdown there would be an opportunity for China, Russia or someone else to set up their own.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

As far as jamming, that would be illegal unless of course it was just interference from spurious EMR

[BLKWDW]

Originally Posted by Kevxr8Leexr6

Yep do have them in nsw . bathurst to lithgow , bathurst to blayney being done now. and a heap more of them goin in further outwest

Where in blayney are they being built? I drive through there twice a day and have not noticed any works going on.

Theres also point to point on picton rd as well and if you go west there is plenty up and down the newell highway and the same on the highway heading to s.a.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by flappist

Actually they will never let it degrade as they will then lose control of navigation.
13 years ago when the yanks still had all the selective accuracy private companies were starting to build commercial GPS receivers that ran on the Russian system rather than the yank one.
This set off a huge panic as if it had gone head then the Russians would be in control of all non military navigation in the world and yanks do not like not being in control of, well everything really.
If the current system were to be no longer viable apart from the huge problem with aviation as the vast majority of terrestrial navaids have been shutdown there would be an opportunity for China, Russia or someone else to set up their own.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!

As far as jamming, that would be illegal unless of course it was just interference from spurious EMR

Several of the sats are already degraded. Some have failed solar arrays. Some have their CMG's slowed from 4000rpm to 2000rpm. Some have some of their transmitters shut down. Some have internal clocks that are drifting beyond 13 pico seconds. It's already happening. The first sign of impending failure will be extra long wait times to get satellite signals drop outs and wildly inacurate geo plots.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Several of the sats are already degraded. Some have failed solar arrays. Some have their CMG's slowed from 4000rpm to 2000rpm. Some have some of their transmitters shut down. Some have internal clocks that are drifting beyond 13 pico seconds. It's already happening. The first sign of impending failure will be extra long wait times to get satellite signals drop outs and wildly inacurate geo plots.....

As all of our, and the rest of the world for that matter, commercial aviation uses GPS as primary navigation the first "oops" will probably get a bit of media attention.....

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by flappist

As all of our, and the rest of the world for that matter, commercial aviation uses GPS as primary navigation the first "oops" will probably get a bit of media attention.....

It certainly will. If the system is degraded beyond certain reliability criteria then airlines etc will have to revert back to their compass's.....

[warpsp33d]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

It certainly will. If the system is degraded beyond certain reliability criteria then airlines etc will have to revert back to their compass's.....

Commercial Aviation use GPS as an added tool of convenience, but they certainly don't rely on it.

If GPS went away, it'd be a bit of an annoyance factor to some commercial aviation, but not an issue. They have plenty of other tools at their disposal for navigation.

[stazza]

Got snapped today doing about 10km/h over, double demerits too.

Was doing 100km/h in the 100 zone, which then changed to an 80 zone, so I pressed my cruise control down to 80 to let the car coast to that speed, got past the sign and just creeping down to about 90 and got done. WHAT THE ****?

I'm clearly doing the right thing, instead of braking suddenly to slow to 80, or slowing down before the 100 zone ends, I casually and SAFELY coast to my speed and get done. Unbelievable. I was THIS close to getting out and trashing the ******* camera.

Double demerits is a joke, completely and utterly unjustifiable. Someone please present to me an argument that justifies double demerits, and some stats on how it makes us any safer on a long weekend.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by warpsp33d

Commercial Aviation use GPS as an added tool of convenience, but they certainly don't rely on it.

If GPS went away, it'd be a bit of an annoyance factor to some commercial aviation, but not an issue. They have plenty of other tools at their disposal for navigation.

Really? Looked at the plates for regionals lately?

Tell me what tools DJ would use for an approach into, for example YHBA, if there was no GPS?

[Serial_Fool]

Don't like speed camera revenue raising? Bring it up with your local MP. If you don't like his response, vote for someone else that doesn't support speed cameras (yes there are candidates like this!) during the next election.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by flappist

Really? Looked at the plates for regionals lately?

Tell me what tools DJ would use for an approach into, for example YHBA, if there was no GPS?

NDB 200. 30 Mile range. Hervey Bay is CTAF airport. Always has been. PAPI is still available and is pilot activated. Yes a GPS system will land you there. But if it GPS were to go away it would revert back to VFR ops. Many Australian airports would be in the same boat.

I believe that GPS is still not approved as a primary navigational aid. It must only be used as a back up. That may have changed. Its been a few years since I last strapped myself into a airplane.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Don't like speed camera revenue raising? Bring it up with your local MP. If you don't like his response, vote for someone else that doesn't support speed cameras (yes there are candidates like this!) during the next election.

That is the way to go...

But I would suggest an organised and planned campaign directed at the transport minister. No matter what party he represents. All protests should be directed at him/her. Placards at the electoral booths in his/her seat on polling day. Dont encourage people to vote for party X. Call on them to not vote for the encumbent. Vote for anyone except him/her. Make the transport port folio a poisoned chalice. Make his/her life a misery. Set up a web page and encourage people to sign on-line petitions. Get in touch with as many car enthusiasts and motorcycle enthusiasts as possible. Get the web page info out there. Dont allow hysteria. Only reasoned and well thought out arguments... I would do it but I dont live there in Vicstan under the most draconian laws in the free world... Why would I care...

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by stazza

Got snapped today doing about 10km/h over, double demerits too.

Was doing 100km/h in the 100 zone, which then changed to an 80 zone, so I pressed my cruise control down to 80 to let the car coast to that speed, got past the sign and just creeping down to about 90 and got done. WHAT THE ****?

I'm clearly doing the right thing, instead of braking suddenly to slow to 80, or slowing down before the 100 zone ends, I casually and SAFELY coast to my speed and get done. Unbelievable. I was THIS close to getting out and trashing the ******* camera.

Double demerits is a joke, completely and utterly unjustifiable. Someone please present to me an argument that justifies double demerits, and some stats on how it makes us any safer on a long weekend.

Fight it!! Go and get a picture of how much clear warning you had to the change of speed sign. The revenue militia just love those zones. And a situation like yours is clearly revenue raising.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

NDB 200. 30 Mile range. Hervey Bay is CTAF airport. Always has been. PAPI is still available and is pilot activated. Yes a GPS system will land you there. But if it GPS were to go away it would revert back to VFR ops. Many Australian airports would be in the same boat.

I believe that GPS is still not approved as a primary navigational aid. It must only be used as a back up. That may have changed. Its been a few years since I last strapped myself into a airplane.

You should update your ERSA. Our NDB was decommissioned a couple of years ago.
Although it is a CTAF again at the moment it was an MBZ for a while, I have been flying here for almost 20 years.
Before making my first post on this I rang a mate who drives 737s for DJ and was once an instructor at HBA (taught me to fly) and checked the accuracy of my points.

But we are getting off topic here a bit as the point to point cameras do not at this time use GPS technology.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by flappist

You should update your ERSA. Our NDB was decommissioned a couple of years ago.
Although it is a CTAF again at the moment it was an MBZ for a while, I have been flying here for almost 20 years.
Before making my first post on this I rang a mate who drives 737s for DJ and was once an instructor at HBA (taught me to fly) and checked the accuracy of my points.

But we are getting off topic here a bit as the point to point cameras do not at this time use GPS technology.

MY ERSA is only current to June 2012... So it must have changed in the last eight months.

[Professor Farnsworth]

i do that stretch from melbourne to albury on average 20 - 25 times a year. It is a shockingly boring monotonous bit of road that could EASILY be raised to 120 or 130 in most sections with no issues at all. Except possibly the stretch through Beveridge, Melbourne-bound where it feels like you're driving over a suspension testing range that hasn't been fixed in many years.

i heard there WERE actually lobbyists trying to get the Hume lowered to 80 hahah!!! GOD

if they do, i'll fly instead.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Fight it!! Go and get a picture of how much clear warning you had to the change of speed sign. The revenue militia just love those zones. And a situation like yours is clearly revenue raising.

Is there a distance they have to have between the sign and the camera? Because surely they know that most people slow down when they get to the sign OR are in the process of slowing down as they pass through the sign?

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by stazza

Is there a distance they have to have between the sign and the camera? Because surely they know that most people slow down when they get to the sign OR are in the process of slowing down as they pass through the sign?

The law says that you must be at the posted speed as you pass the sign. But if the sign is blocked by trees or parked vehicles you mat have a leg to stand on. As you said, just jumping on the brakes is dangerous.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by BLKWDW

Where in blayney are they being built? I drive through there twice a day and have not noticed any works going on.

Try here... but as has already been said they're only for Trucks...... so far
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety..._locations.pdf

I don't know what all the drama is about we (Truckies) not only have point to point but also the Safe-T-Cam system to contend with.
This also a point to point but over much longer distances.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by stazza

Got snapped today doing about 10km/h over, double demerits too.

Was doing 100km/h in the 100 zone, which then changed to an 80 zone, so I pressed my cruise control down to 80 to let the car coast to that speed, got past the sign and just creeping down to about 90 and got done. WHAT THE ****?

I'm clearly doing the right thing, instead of braking suddenly to slow to 80, or slowing down before the 100 zone ends, I casually and SAFELY coast to my speed and get done. Unbelievable. I was THIS close to getting out and trashing the ******* camera.

Double demerits is a joke, completely and utterly unjustifiable. Someone please present to me an argument that justifies double demerits, and some stats on how it makes us any safer on a long weekend.

You have to be doing the speed noted at or before the sign. That sign denotes the start of the area where you are allowed to do that speed...in this case, 80. When going back up to 100, you can't start speeding up until you are past the sign.
I've seen foolish posts on this and other forums of people sagely saying you can start speeding up "as soon as the sign is readable" or that you don't have to start slowing down "until you actually reach the sign". Nope.

You passed the 80 zone sign at 90...that's speeding, sorry. You do have to "slow down before the 100 zone ends" and be doing 80 by the time you reach the sign.

Double demerits are another point altogether. I don't see the point of them. Speeding is the only area of the law where they say "deterrent value" exists. Say that the death penalty should be brought in, and "experts" say there's no deterrent value in it. Say penalties for crime should be harsher, and they say there's no evidence for deterrent value. So why should double demerits "deter" anyone?