air conditioner gas to go up 220% june 30th ?

[mik]

i just spoke to a mate who was speaking to a mechanic up his way, apparently air conditioner gas due to the carbon tax is going up 220 % as of june 30th,
i can`t verify this, perhaps one of the brains trust can shed more light?

[BHDOGS]

People will hike everything and claim the carbon tax people should be wary of this it's gonna be a major scam as for air con had no idea

[EDManual]

even if the libs can the carbon tax, I doubt prices of goods and labour would drop when their electricity expenses drop back down! Theives! ;-) I know my bosses wouldnt!

[Cúl-Báire]

I believe we will see an exponential increase in the cost of goods, and services across the board with this one!!!... Thanks Labour!

Re: Aircon Gas, I've heard the same 220% increase come 30 June.

[J.C.]

I think we should all come to peace with the fact that prices rarely drop. As said already, even if the carbon tax is canned (which I'm sure it won't be), prices of goods and services will most likely stay the same because consumers have learnt to live with the price increases, which means more coin for the government.

We either learn to live with it or revolt......................I don't think the later is an option either as they have taken our guns off us as well so we can't go shoot the bastards (maybe a board with a rusty nail in it will do the job), plus we are all to busy trying to make ends meet that we just don't have the time to run or be a part of a revolution.

Got to love this form of communistic democrary that has crept into our government.

I ask myself daily "Who are the real criminals in our society? The bloke doing 5k over the speed limit or the thieves in politics who come up with ways on how to screw us all on a daily basis and make it law?"

[Jim Goose]

And the ignorance continues.....

People are inherantly stupid it seems.

The ACCC announced this today:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-1...-hikes/4005218

Watchdog warns of carbon tax cons
AM
By Lindy Kerin


The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is warning customers to be wary of businesses claiming excessive price rises due to the carbon tax.

The ACCC say it is currently investigating around 100 misleading or deceptive claims made in relation to the tax.

They include a brick supplier who said a cost increase last month was due to the tax, which has not yet been implemented.

ACCC chairman Rod Sims says he does not want consumers blindly accepting price rises because of the carbon tax.

"If someone, say, a year ago put up their prices or tried to put up their prices by 10 per cent, customers would push back and look for other options," he said.

"What we don't want is on July 1, people being duped into accepting a price increase because they believe wrongly that it's associated with the carbon price."

Just weeks before the carbon tax is due to come into effect, the consumer watchdog says it will crack down on shonky sales reps and sharks who are trying to cash in.

The ACCC says it has received complaints about companies telling their potential customers to buy now and beat the carbon tax.

It says companies who continue to mislead customers could face fines of up to $1 million.

"We've had a number of both concerning examples, and in a sense less concerning examples," he said.

"The less-concerning ones are people that are - a petrol station trying to tell people the price of fuel had gone up because of the carbon tax, a taxi driver, cafe owner, brick making company, trying to do the same thing all before the carbon tax has actually come in.

"More concerning have been examples where we think customers might be induced to do things they otherwise wouldn't do and that's where we have more concerns.

"And they've been examples where people have greatly exaggerated the effect of the carbon price on electricity prices, for example, to try and sell renewable energy."
Watching carefully
Audio: ACCC crackdown on carbon cons (AM)

Mr Sims also said there had been examples of construction-orientated industries have told people to buy now to beat the carbon price.

"It's just normal types of price increases," he said.

"On the electricity (front), that's where we've seen some representations that electricity prices would increase by extremely large amounts, in some cases hundreds of per cent over a period of some years.

"The aim there has been to get people to buy alternative forms of energy to avoid the electricity price increase."

Despite his concerns, Mr Sims said the practice is not widespread yet but the ACCC were "watching very carefully".

Companies caught out by ACCC face everything from reprimand to court action.

"We can issue substantiation notices where somebody's said something and we've said please substantiate that," he said.

"That's a fairly new power that we've got.

"And ultimately if we find somebody recalcitrant who's just really not willing to change their behaviour, we can take them to court and get court-imposed penalties which in the extreme can be up to $1.1 million for each offence."

If your dumb enough to believe that its a legitimate claim that something will go up 220% ... I have a bridge for sale....

[atec77]

Originally Posted by mik

i just spoke to a mate who was speaking to a mechanic up his way, apparently air conditioner gas due to the carbon tax is going up 220 % as of june 30th,
i can`t verify this, perhaps one of the brains trust can shed more light?

Gasses will go up of course but the amount above the allowed amount as you suggest depends on the greed of the seller
certainly you are mis-informed imho

[J.C.]

The ACCC has no teeth. All **** and wind.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by J.C.

The ACCC has no teeth. All **** and wind.

This may be true... but the fact remains that some idiot claims that gas will go up by 220% needs to be reported to them for scaremongering.

And if people believe that companies wont try and rip people off and use the excuse thats its "the carbon taxes" fault then they are living in a bubble...

and no i dont support the tax.... and i understand things will go up to cover the costs etc.... but people/ tradies/ companies are already lieing to people and ripping them off. Its the aussie way....

[Jastel]

I have heard the same from a mate who is a fridgie.

If you think this is BS try to buy a bottle...you cant.
Everyone has stocked up.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

This may be true... but the fact remains that some idiot claims that gas will go up by 220% needs to be reported to them for scaremongering.

And if people believe that companies wont try and rip people off and use the excuse thats its "the carbon taxes" fault then they are living in a bubble...

and no i dont support the tax.... and i understand things will go up to cover the costs etc.... but people/ tradies/ companies are already lieing to people and ripping them off. Its the aussie way....

Hey. I agree with you here. 220% is a bit excessive to believe.

Take your advice here and do the community a service. Give the ACCC a call on this one and see what they have to say. Sweet FA I reckon..............but may be worth a go. Let us know how you get along with that too.
And when the price of A/C gas goes up 220% after June, I'll crap my pants in dismay and disbelief and I'll know your call fell on deaf ears.

The more I think about it, the more I'm start to lean toward the revolution idea. We mighten be able to shoot them but there is hope they'll die of tetanus after we stick 'em with our rusty nails attached it our 4x2's.

[2011G6E]

Even without the carbon tax BS, I'd heard that green groups weren't happy with the pricing of air conditioning gasses. Of course, they hate anyone to be content to live in a modern western society with all the conveniences we expect from a 21st century lifestyle...they're more along the lines of rubbish like Earth Hour, which they say "represents the future"...what, sitting in the dark and doing without?

Basically, anything that requires power to produce is going to cost more...oh right...that's literally everything...

[The Yeti]

what can I say, but I didnt vote fore them

who has used LPG in Auto AC systems, Ive heard of taxi's doing it but I dont know how well it works

[mik]

Originally Posted by atec77

Gasses will go up of course but the amount above the allowed amount as you suggest depends on the greed of the seller
certainly you are mis-informed imho

i hope that i am misinformed, but nothing would surprise me the way things are going.

[IceValk85]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

what can I say, but I didnt vote fore them

who has used LPG in Auto AC systems, Ive heard of taxi's doing it but I dont know how well it works

heheheheh KABLAMMMOOO!

imagine the storm when you get a leak under the bonnet lol!

[cs123]

Originally Posted by IceValk85

heheheheh KABLAMMMOOO!

imagine the shitstorm when you get a leak under the bonnet lol!

Hychil. A few people use it. probably a good option for older systems. It's been discussed in a few threads here.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by IceValk85

heheheheh KABLAMMMOOO!

imagine the shitstorm when you get a leak under the bonnet lol!

Ha ha ha yea

Give me some credit,

an airconditioner is nothing more than a heat exchanger system LPG has all the qualitys required at a very simular boiling point

Like I said before I have read about it was curious as to who had used it and how it went

thanks CS123 I'll do some thread mining

[ratter]

it causes damage to late model compressors

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cs123

Hychil. A few people use it. probably a good option for older systems. It's been discussed in a few threads here.

Hychil isn't LPG, but it is a similar type of gas.

LPG actually works quite well, but I'd be worried in a crash.

[kempy311]

We had a rep come into work and he informed us that the price will be increasing by 300% after that i had to get up off the floor.

[Herrod Motorsport]

Yep they are right , all thanks to our labour party carbon tax

[cs123]

I has a look here
http://www.cleanenergyfuture.gov.au/...enhouse-gases/

and it says this

Impact on consumers
The impact on consumers is expected to be low as the amount of these gases in consumer products is generally small, with the synthetic greenhouse gas content being a small part of the overall cost of the product. For example, the price of a domestic refrigerator would increase by around $4 and the price of a new car would increase by around $18 because of the synthetic greenhouse gas contained in the air conditioner. The Government’s household assistance package takes these impacts into account and ensures that 2 in 3 households will get tax cuts or increased payments that cover their expected average price impact of both this measure and the other elements of the carbon price.

Where alternatives are available, consumers will be able to reduce their costs by choosing products that contain these alternatives. For example, certain brands of domestic refrigerators do not contain these gases.

[fpvgtp]

As the owner of a refrigeration & air conditioning company I can assure you that most refrigeration gasses will go up but to date we are not certian of the ammount but have been told to expect somewhere between $50 to $90 per kg depending on the refrigerant. Remember this is a tax that we, owners of companies,will have to pass on to customers & I have a copy of the ACCC 's info and will be able to show justification for the increase when I know what it will be & how it will be charged. Labor party at its best. My costs per service van are expected to increase by $3000.00 plus just for the refrigerant we carry to repair customers equipment multiply that by 12 vans, my service fleet, and come sit in my seat. Not to mention ythe additional costs to wholesalers. Sorry for pinching the thread but ****ed off at this tax and its implications to me and my company and to our customers. PM me if you want more info.

[Cobramad]

Just wait til LPG goes up in the car.. its a killer.. so to speak!
No OEM refrigerant is flammable!

[Herrod Motorsport]

Originally Posted by fpvgtp

As the owner of a refrigeration & air conditioning company I can assure you that most refrigeration gasses will go up but to date we are not certian of the ammount but have been told to expect somewhere between $50 to $90 per kg depending on the refrigerant. Remember this is a tax that we, owners of companies,will have to pass on to customers & I have a copy of the ACCC 's info and will be able to show justification for the increase when I know what it will be & how it will be charged. Labor party at its best. My costs per service van are expected to increase by $3000.00 plus just for the refrigerant we carry to repair customers equipment multiply that by 12 vans, my service fleet, and come sit in my seat. Not to mention ythe additional costs to wholesalers. Sorry for pinching the thread but ****ed off at this tax and its implications to me and my company and to our customers. PM me if you want more info.

I feel for you , this government has stuffed our country . How much extra paperwork are you going to have to do . These idiots give out money to the lower income family's for schooling in the budget but don't mention they are going to take it back in other ways . This country is stuffed

[foxtrot3]

Originally Posted by Cobramad

Just wait til LPG goes up in the car.. its a killer.. so to speak!
No OEM refrigerant is flammable!

Hi. But if you burn R12 the result is mustard gas (a highly toxic gas used in WW2) Cheers MD

[mash again]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

what can I say, but I didnt vote fore them

who has used LPG in Auto AC systems, Ive heard of taxi's doing it but I dont know how well it works

Makes the pressure abit high on a hot day, need a propane butane mix (autogas) There isnt much gas in an AC system and it would be very hard to reach the LEL required for an explosion. Propane has been used as a refrigerant for years but not in mobile applications at least not legally. anyone know what happens if your AC pushes all its "legal" gas into the cabin???

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Herrod Motorsport

I feel for you , this government has stuffed our country . How much extra paperwork are you going to have to do . These idiots give out money to the lower income family's for schooling in the budget but don't mention they are going to take it back in other ways . This country is stuffed

Correction , Education is how they are attempting to sell a cash giveaway in a feeble and totally transparent attempt to buy votes . If it was an education bonus it would only be redeemable on educational products such as stationery , school uniforms , school shoes etc etc . This is BUYING votes ( pure and simple ) from labours traditional heartland and like the Krudd handouts a massive proportion will end up ****ed up against a wall or punted through the TAB or propping up the likes of Philip Morris and B.A.T. I have never known a government that hates its own country as this one does , who hates loathes and despises entrepreneurs , employers ( you know the ones who employ the labour supporters ) and achievers with the vitriolic passion this one does . I never in my wildest dreams ever believed we could see a worse government than Evatts or Whitlams , sadly I have been proved to be wrong .

[sudszy]

The tax on refrigerants is based on the global warming potential of the gas compared to CO2. R134A(what most vehicles have) has a gwp of 1300, simply translated meaning 1kg of refrigerant released into the atmosphere has the same greenhouse effect/gwp as 1300kg of CO2. Currently there is no known way of recovering these gases from the atmosphere so it makes sense to make people more appreciative of its careful use, making it worth fixing the leaks rather than simply gassing up a system every year for example.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/Re...es-d_1220.html

The carbon ta x is at $23. The $18 increase in new vehicles quoted in the fact sheet would appear to be calculated on the average systems having 600grams of refrigerant. This may be the average including small cars but larger systems are using close to 1kg, so perhaps to regas a falcon the extra cost would be closer to $30

Scaremongering about costs increasing by 300%? Well it depends on how much the cost of your refrigerant is. If you are currently buying r134A at $15 /kg then $30 on top of that as tax would represent an increase of 300%.
Bottom line, the cost of the average regas should increase by $18-30, due to the tax on the actual amount of refrigerant used. As a consumer the price of an aircon gas varies by more than this from workshop to workshop and perhaps most of us wont care that current cars survive 5-10yrs without regassing.

It will be interesting to see which way the refrigerant and car companies go. At the time that an agreement on the banning of r12 was being discussed, motoring groups and manufacturers(including dupont) were also screaming blue murder, but necessity proved to be the mother of invention, the sky didn’t fall in and we have affordable and effective air conditioning ……….and an ozone layer!

On the other hand r134a is not being banned so companies will not be forced to change. However, the carrot for the big manufacturers is to produce a refrigerant with low gwp and they will be able to potentially undersell the competition by $30/kg, market forces, workshops will be looking for the best price when they buy by the hundreds of kgs. A new refrigerant developed may only work in systems specifically designed for it, and perhaps only be used on new cars.

Using other hc based refrigerants, propane or hychill etc. They only have gwps or 3-4 so would only attract a couple of cents of carbon tax. Manufacturers don’t use it because they have an alternative at present, why take on any risk of law suits, but given they may have no alternatives they make look a the hc route.

Are they safe, the only explosions have been created under ideal conditions when evaporators have been deliberately punctured and allowed the whole contents of the system to fill the cabin of a vehicle and a substantial spark used to start them.

It may well be that they are viable alternative for newer vehicles and that manufacturers could make safeguards for the rare event gases entering the cabin. In deliberate collisions so far it has proved impossible to ignite the small amount of gas escaping from a fractured condenser. My money is that a non flammable low gwp refrigerant will be developed.

[cs123]

Good post Sudszy