Extractor choice ?

BZINGA · 08-10-2011, 12:38 AM

I have 4001 pacemakers on my xr8 sedan which are 1 5/8 into 1 7/8 out 2 1/4 which seem to be pretty popular.
I'm looking at putting pipes on my ute and came across some Genies on ebay which are 1 1/2 into 2 out 2 1/4.
The ute will just have basic bolt on mods, cats, cai etc ... won't be racing it but just want best performance on the street from it so i know extractor topics are done to death but just wondering which is the better option?

BZINGA · 08-10-2011, 08:33 PM

Anyone? ..

Sox · 08-10-2011, 08:48 PM

IMO, 1 1/2" is better than 1 5/8" for the 5L, so go for it.

I would actually be avoiding anything bigger.

BZINGA · 08-10-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

IMO, 1 1/2" is better than 1 5/8" for the 5L, so go for it.

I would actually be avoiding anything bigger.

That's what i was thinking also ... just wanted to see if anyone thought that aswell.

b2tf · 08-10-2011, 09:35 PM

Difiilippo 4 into 1's with 1 3/4" primaries on my ute, same as my old AU. Happy with them although I do think that tri-y's offer a bit more down low. Not enough to the point where I would change mine though.

BZINGA · 08-10-2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Difiilippo 4 into 1's with 1 3/4" primaries on my ute, same as my old AU. Happy with them although I do think that tri-y's offer a bit more down low. Not enough to the point where I would change mine though.

Yeah i was definitely going tri -y's for more down low as i'm only trying to get the best performance out of it for the street .. if i was to give it a run down the 1/4 now and then id think other options.

BZINGA · 09-10-2011, 12:58 AM

Anyone used the HM headers HM103SS extractors? They only advertise the outlet as 2 1/4", no other figures .. Anyone actually know the size of them?

Sox · 09-10-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIK67

Anyone used the HM headers HM103SS extractors? They only advertise the outlet as 2 1/4", no other figures .. Anyone actually know the size of them?

They'd be fine, 2 1/4" is plenty.

Depending on cost though, these are probably the best value and best performing off the shelf extractors for the 5L -
http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...4d722e414da7ca

The only way to improve on those is to have set custom made, and that will double the price.

Sox · 09-10-2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Difiilippo 4 into 1's with 1 3/4" primaries on my ute, same as my old AU. Happy with them although I do think that tri-y's offer a bit more down low. Not enough to the point where I would change mine though.

I think you'd get a shock as to how much low and mid range power you're sacrificing with 1 3/4 pipes, and 4>1 design.
That sort of setup is totally useless on a street car spinning to ~6000rpm.
It's probably most efficient between 5000rpm and 9000rpm.

BZINGA · 09-10-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

They'd be fine, 2 1/4" is plenty.

Depending on cost though, these are probably the best value and best performing off the shelf extractors for the 5L -
http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...4d722e414da7ca

The only way to improve on those is to have set custom made, and that will double the price.

They seem ok .. Quite a few types out there to choose from. I'll be buying off the shelf pipes, i don't think a custom set is required.

b2tf · 09-10-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I think you'd get a shock as to how much low and mid range power you're sacrificing with 1 3/4 pipes, and 4>1 design.
That sort of setup is totally useless on a street car spinning to ~6000rpm.
It's probably most efficient between 5000rpm and 9000rpm.

Dont know if i would go as far as saying that.

Sox · 09-10-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Dont know if i would go as far as saying that.

Well, it's just basic physics really.

They can of course make decent power, but it's up at a rev range none of us use on the road.
Unless it's a full on race engine spinning at between 5000rpm and 9000rpm.

Big pipes = huge flow potential, low air speed at low rpms (< than 6000).
4>1's don't scavenge as well as tri-y's for road rpm's either.
I'm sure yours are great pipes, they just on the wrong application.

The best extractors for 99% of street driven cars are tri-y's with smallish pipe sizes. Even tough street/strip cars are best suited to these sort of pipes.
More so with heavy cars like our Falcons.

Ask yourself this. How often does your engine see 6000rpm and above, and how long does it sit at those revs.

I worked with a very good engine builder for many years, and that's all he would use on any street driven car.
I also had a good relationship with a very experienced exhaust dude, he swore by tri-y's, and hand made me a nice fancy step back headers.
They work best right where they're needed.

I just need to make another set for the sedan now, as he finally gave it up a little while back, after 20 odd years.

b2tf · 09-10-2011, 03:22 PM

Everybody is/was/knows/has an expert who will tell them a differing opinion.

I am happy with mine, cant be stuffed changing them and I also doubt Difillippo would be selling the headers they do if they are, as you put it, 'the wrong application'.

Sox · 09-10-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Everybody is/was/knows/has an expert who will tell them a differing opinion.

True enough, but as I said, simple physics tell the story.
Have a gander at the port sizes of the heads, valve sizes, cubic capacity, etc.
Do the math and see where it ends up.

Quote:

I am happy with mine, cant be stuffed changing them and I also doubt Difillippo would be selling the headers they do if they are, as you put it, 'the wrong application'.

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, but there's loads of stuff in any market sector which are sold in this fashion.
Usually it comes down to whatever makes money and there's a growing trend for the bigger is better mentality.
Take a look at some of the cannons hanging from the back of some little 4 bangers, they make about as much sense as using a sock for a condom.

FTe342 · 09-10-2011, 08:13 PM

I'll back Sox all the way on this one. Aust you don't know what your missing out on until you spend the money and try it. I did as per my many posts over the years and all proven with continuous dyno tests after each change. I'll go as far as to say you will even get better mileage.

The biggest power/torque gain came when I replaced the Di Philippos 4 > 1's with Hurricane Tri y's. And thats on a 5.6L.

The problem in this country is that anyone can open an exhaust business and hang out a shingle calling themselves whatever performance exhaust specialists and make claims that they don't have to prove.
I know of some cases where cars have made less power & torque after fitment of so called performance exhausts. Of course its not just the headers but the rest of the system has an effect as well
Until you fit big port heads large primaries are overkill

BZINGA · 09-10-2011, 08:56 PM

Well these hurricanes run 1.5" primaries 1.75" secondaries & 2.5 outlet @ a price of $530.00

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...4d722e414da7ca

The Genies run 1.5" primaries 2" secondaries & 2.25 outlet @ a price of $540

Both Pacemaker and HM run 1 5/8" primaries so i guess they're out.

I'm going to run 100 cpsi cats and twin 2.5" dumped at the diff so is the hurricanes or genies the better choice?

Sox · 09-10-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRIK67

Well these hurricanes run 1.5" primaries 1.75" secondaries & 2.5 outlet @ a price of $530.00

http://www.bestmufflers.com/bshop/pr...4d722e414da7ca

The Genies run 1.5" primaries 2" secondaries & 2.25 outlet @ a price of $540

Both Pacemaker and HM run 1 5/8" primaries so i guess they're out.

I'm going to run 100 cpsi cats and twin 2.5" dumped at the diff so is the hurricanes or genies the better choice?

I'd probably lean towards the Hurricane on a 5L.
But, the Genies may work slightly better on a 5.6L.

My hand built headers have 4 sizes.
The primary exits the port at 1 5/8", they then step back to 1 1/2" approx 200mm out, which then goes a further ~200mm.
The secondary pipe is 2".
The collector is 2.5".
This then steps back to 2 1/4" just after the main mufflers, all the way to the back.

That's on a 5.6L, so I think the Hurricanes will be the best choice for off the shelf headers on a 5L.
That's most likely what I'll get for the sedan if I don't attempt to make another set.

BTW, I'd keep the system at 2 1/4", dual 2 1/2" is to big for a 5L.

BZINGA · 09-10-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

I'd probably lean towards the Hurricane on a 5L.
But, the Genies may work slightly better on a 5.6L.

Yep i think i'll give the Hurricanes a go.

Thanks Sox for helping out.

b2tf · 09-10-2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTe342

I'll back Sox all the way on this one. Aust you don't know what your missing out on until you spend the money and try it. I did as per my many posts over the years and all proven with continuous dyno tests after each change. I'll go as far as to say you will even get better mileage.

The biggest power/torque gain came when I replaced the Di Philippos 4 > 1's with Hurricane Tri y's. And thats on a 5.6L.

The problem in this country is that anyone can open an exhaust business and hang out a shingle calling themselves whatever performance exhaust specialists and make claims that they don't have to prove.
I know of some cases where cars have made less power & torque after fitment of so called performance exhausts. Of course its not just the headers but the rest of the system has an effect as well
Until you fit big port heads large primaries are overkill

What size primaries do these Hurricanes have? The DF is 1 3/4".

b2tf · 09-10-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

What size primaries do these Hurricanes have? The DF is 1 3/4".

Scratch that I just answered my own question.

J.C. · 13-10-2011, 10:46 AM

Both my TS's run different headers.
The blueprint manual TS has the full DiPhilipo system plus CAI. Sounds very nice I might add.
The silver auto TS has Hurricane tri-y headers and twin 2 1/2 down to 2 1/4 around the diff area (not mandrel bent which annoyed me a bit).
The auto had a faster terminal speed over the quarter by approximately 8kph (this does not mean it is the faster car as I haven't got times). It also feels torquier and responds better to throttle inputs. Overtaking is a breeze in both cars, in particular the auto as just a tickle on the throttle and you're away.
Each to there own though.
Both cars have been tuned also.

BZINGA · 13-10-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.C.

Both my TS's run different headers.
The blueprint manual TS has the full DiPhilipo system plus CAI. Sounds very nice I might add.
The silver auto TS has Hurricane tri-y headers and twin 2 1/2 down to 2 1/4 around the diff area (not mandrel bent which annoyed me a bit).
The auto had a faster terminal speed over the quarter by approximately 8kph (this does not mean it is the faster car as I haven't got times). It also feels torquier and responds better to throttle inputs. Overtaking is a breeze in both cars, in particular the auto as just a tickle on the throttle and you're away.
Each to there own though.
Both cars have been tuned also.

Thanks for the comparison info. I've decided to run the Hurricane Tri-y's .. I just think they are the better option for what i want out of the car.