New Submarines

[marty351]

Originally Posted by cheap

Politics.

Mind you the same anti-nuke politicians would insist our next submarines be green and incorporate solar, wind and tidal powered propulsion, insisting the navy pay some form of CO2 tax because of their non compliance.

I've often thought that. I guess we're still little kids in a big kids playground.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by marty351

I still dont get why we build new? submarines with tractor engines.
Nuke tech has been around since the 50's and we still insist on conventional crap.
WHY?

Diesel-electric submarines are amongst the quietest submarines in the world. When they are submerged they are running on batteries which of course is very very quiet. Plus they're cheaper. Nuke boats arent as quiet.

The not-insurmountable problem (in an Australian context) is that we don't have a nuclear power generation industry in Australia to support the construction and maintenance of said nuke boats.

The Japanese Soryu class boats that Abbott & Co have a massive hard-on for are rumoured to be using or experimenting with lithium-ion batteries which will be a bit of a game changer in terms of underwater endurance for a DE sub.

[Road_Warrior]

I wonder if the current (and projected) exchange rate changes with the AUD will have an impact on which way Govco will jump with this?

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I wonder if the current (and projected) exchange rate changes with the AUD will have an impact on which way Govco will jump with this?

You would have to think so, the project cost is going up almost daily.
But even locally built subs will have a large amount of imported hardware still impacted by the exchange rate(and if you believe the buzz, a dearer cost to build)...

[Fordman1]

Virginia Class SSN(X)'s

Problem solved.

[Agile]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Virginia Class SSN(X)'s

Problem solved.

You think? Having a chat with a defense industry fella last night over a couple of beers and he said, and I quote, " the yanks hate our subs because they are TOO QUIET". Have repeatedly sunk targets in Rimpac opps.
His prediction is that the Government will screw this up the same way that they have screwed up most other major procurements.
Makes the point that why 12 subs when we have not got the crew for the existing , lesser amount of subs.

[marty351]

Makes the point that why 12 subs when we have not got the crew for the existing , lesser amount of subs.[/QUOTE]

Time for a navy recruitment drive. Plenty of new Australians needing a job.

[pottery beige]

double banger

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by marty351

Makes the point that why 12 subs when we have not got the crew for the existing , lesser amount of subs.

Time for a navy recruitment drive. Plenty of new Australians needing a job.

i need a job

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by marty351

Makes the point that why 12 subs when we have not got the crew for the existing , lesser amount of subs.

Time for a navy recruitment drive. Plenty of new Australians needing a job.[/QUOTE]

One of my ex workmates was on submarines from the 1980s to early 1990s and from what he said it sounded horrible lol.

Loud and hot depending on the seas they were in, south china sea was bad for heat apparently.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Time for a navy recruitment drive. Plenty of new Australians needing a job.

One of my ex workmates was on submarines from the 1980s to early 1990s and from what he said it sounded horrible lol.

Loud and hot depending on the seas they were in, south china sea was bad for heat apparently.

The old Oberons were totally different to the current Collins Class..

[Agile]

A'' competitive evaluation process''. What a complete load of absolute bull**** !!!! And this artical proves it
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-1...win-spill-vote

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Agile

A'' competitive evaluation process''. What a complete load of absolute bull**** !!!! And this artical proves it
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-1...win-spill-vote

Your link is dead !!!

[Agile]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-1...s-step/6082254
Sorry about that, Try this one. It gets worse by the hour. If we hand over $20 BILLION of manufacturing to the Japs or whoever, kiss goodbye to heavy manufacturing in SA and VIC.

PS Sorry GasOLane. Funny thing is I am a past Liberal supporter.

[mik]

Personally i don't give a toss if it does cost more to build our **** here, even if we screw it up many times in the process, at least we gain skills and people have worthwhile jobs learning.

i dont see much value coming out of working part time at maccas or being on the dole for anyone.

[ILLaViTaR]

Australia's going to go offshore thanks to all these Free Trade Agreements.

Medicines, food, mining, coal and probably these submarines too. If we change our minds and want to build local, that's a breach of agreement and they sue us. We're locked into selling ourselves basically thanks to these agreements.

[marty351]

What next? Australia buying sand from the arabs..
selling coal for minimal profit. It's time to start keel-hauling politicians for their stuff ups.
Politicians and their cronies are our own worst enemies.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by marty351

Politicians and their cronies are our own worst enemies.

here's a neat summary

http://theconversation.com/why-not-l...talemate-36772

JP

[mik]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

here's a neat summary

http://theconversation.com/why-not-l...talemate-36772

JP

Thats a fair article,
as i have always thought ......the system is like Humpty Dumpty ...... it is broken, and all of " WE THE PEOPLE " cant put the pieces back together ,

the whole system is a joke, a 5 minute squiz at question time and its .
And so we continue down the creek without a paddle.....

[marty351]

In about 5 generations, or maybe a few more, 'straya will be just a giant, rescourceless
hole in the ground that the world will have forgotten.
We need to build those subs here at any cost, the fallout for not doing so may never be recoverable.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by marty351

In about 5 generations, or maybe a few more, 'straya will be just a giant, rescourceless
hole in the ground that the world will have forgotten.
We need to build those subs here at any cost, the fallout for not doing so may never be recoverable.

At any cost?

That's exactly what the ASC wants to hear.

At any cost means:

Less money for schools
Less money for hospitals
Less money for roads
Less money for social services
Less money for just about everything

Lets not forget. at any costs, also means
HIGHER TAXES

We need the best affordable, lethal and sustainable submarine fleet, give the track record of the ASC that is not likely.

Therefore the process of next submarine selection should go to "open tender", instead, due to blatent political port barrelling, the selection is likely to be "competitive evaluation process".

Competitive evaluation process is codeword for the ASC is going to win (at any cost).

[Agile]

I find it absolutely incredible that the government would be even contemplating buying subs wholus bolus from overseas. Aus has spent 20 odd years developing ASC who have , eventually, produced THE MOST COMPETENT, LETHAL, NON NUCLEAR sub in the world. Despite the mis information being pedaled, these subs are one of ONLY TWO class of subs that the MOST ADVANCED NAVY, ARMED FORCE on the planet can not find, let alone destroy. In RIMPAC exercises they have repeatedly embarrassed US Navy opps.
Get real you doubters. It would be TREASON on a grand scale to not only scrap an advanced cutting edge work force [prove me wrong] but also in parallel hand over our national security to a foreign power.

[marty351]

By any cost I refer to the overseas implications, no local.
Good accountancy for the military budget, I can't see why we would need to look offshore to buy what we can already manufacture here.

[Polyal]

Hmm dont get me start on the "need" for such defence....imagine if we concentrated on the rubbish that goes down on our streets like this.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by cheap

At any cost?

That's exactly what the ASC wants to hear.

At any cost means:

Less money for schools
Less money for hospitals
Less money for roads
Less money for social services
Less money for just about everything

Lets not forget. at any costs, also means
HIGHER TAXES

We need the best affordable, lethal and sustainable submarine fleet, give the track record of the ASC that is not likely.

Therefore the process of next submarine selection should go to "open tender", instead, due to blatent political port barrelling, the selection is likely to be "competitive evaluation process".

Competitive evaluation process is codeword for the ASC is going to win (at any cost).

back it off a cog champ / yo trying bit yo hardcore

[b0son]

Cant help but wonder .... was it always the aim to let ASC tender eventually? Was this just a ploy to get them to create a realistic price?

[cheap]

Originally Posted by b0son

Cant help but wonder .... was it always the aim to let ASC tender eventually? Was this just a ploy to get them to create a realistic price?

An open tender would have exposed ASC to real competition, instead ASC seem to have been awarded the work "at whatever price".

Wont be long before some foreign multinational works out the bonanza, buys up ASC and then gouges the Government (the taxpayer) with ever increasing cost over-runs. Just watch this happen.

[GasoLane]

Please make an effort to keep political comments out of the thread, or it will submerge quicker than any Sub built anywhere.

[marty351]

Enemy sighted! Crash dive! Evasive manourvers!

[Grunter]

Does Australia, with it's ties to allies that have a significant Sub fleets, really need subs? A couple of the lads were talking about it last night and none of us could answer with any real substance.