GTHO Fastest 4 - door

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

Have you driven an LJ with a V8? They are bad handling pigs.

i use to own one.... ;) agree it wasn't as sweet as with the six, but for sheer outright pace i don't think the P4 would have seen which way it went....

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

my reply was in regards to common sense not being used. it was suggested the mighty torana beat the phase 3 at bathurst. never has a series production torana beaten a series production phase 3 in the bathurst 500. in 1972 they were not strictly series production and the rain obviously helped the torana. that is relevant in this case because the thread is about the claim that the phase 3 was the fastest 4 door car ever, at the time of it's release. that has everything to do with outright power and someone else put the spin of the mighty torana beating it, which in the context of the this thread (and reality) meant nothing at all

as always there are people (who should be journalists, with their continually infactual information), that never let the truth get in the way of a good story. my reply was directed at some of those. the original question was not really worth asking in the first place

Fair enough mate. I guess I just took what you said the wrong way. Unlike Outback I actually have alot of respect for the GTHO, and quite honestly the only other Holdens I would consider over it are the 327 HK GTS Monaro, and LX A9X.

[302 XC]

gee seems a few ladies on here need to give up reading womans weekly
GTHO is a legend end of story
peoples opinions are all great and well
but its records are from near 40 years ago(well before some on here were born or even thought of)
yes there is faster better ect now , and i would hope so
its called advancements, isnt it
to build a car as such , and give a warranty is just astonishing, isnt it ???
im pritty sure some of the "yank muscle" cars of the era didnt offer warranties as such
didnt some come with no warranty at all ???
"sold as is, to suit drag,racing purposes only"was on some of the yank muscle
GTHO PHASE 3 ,
has been the benchmark , for others to acheive and its THE only car that is compared when others have built any muscle cars as such
didnt they even compare it to the best of the brocks around bathurst in the eighties ???
im sure it gave the best brockadores a touch up,still not bad comparing a car built in 1971 to a brand new 1980s brockadore
to compare it to anything nowadays ???
anyone wanna take their 750K pristine GTHO for a floggin session ????
i dont think so

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

gee seems a few ladies on here need to give up reading womans weekly
GTHO is a legend end of story
peoples opinions are all great and well
but its records are from near 40 years ago(well before some on here were born or even thought of)
yes there is faster better ect now , and i would hope so
its called advancements, isnt it
to build a car as such , and give a warranty is just astonishing, isnt it ???
im pritty sure some of the "yank muscle" cars of the era didnt offer warranties as such
didnt some come with no warranty at all ???
"sold as is, to suit drag,racing purposes only"was on some of the yank muscle
GTHO PHASE 3 ,
has been the benchmark , for others to acheive and its THE only car that is compared when others have built any muscle cars as such
didnt they even compare it to the best of the brocks around bathurst in the eighties ???
im sure it gave the best brockadores a touch up,still not bad comparing a car built in 1971 to a brand new 1980s brockadore
to compare it to anything nowadays ???
anyone wanna take their 750K pristine GTHO for a floggin session ????
i dont think so

It was a car ahead of its time that's for. The fact that it could still take it to HDT Commodores from the 80s is testament to how much of a beast the HO really was.

In saying that they're probably one of the best aged cars to ever come off an Australian production line. They still look good now, and will still look good 40 years from now.

I admit I get a hint of jealously everytime I see an original HO that I wish Holden could've made something as legendary, but credit is given where it's due.

[Melz]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

gee seems a few ladies on here need to give up reading womans weekly

And why is it some men can't come up with a constructive argument without refering to other men as women to try and 'belittle' one another?

Somehow it makes their argument less convincing...... wouldn't you agree???

[DevilishChick60]

In a Shannon's car Insurance advert on tv they make reference to the Phase 3 being the "Fastest 4 door in 1971''

So I guess it is really was the fastest 4 door sedan in 1971...

I don't believe there would too many originals around now.. most I know of are replica's and are only weekend drives..

[Bad Bird]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

i use to own one.... ;) agree it wasn't as sweet as with the six, but for sheer outright pace i don't think the P4 would have seen which way it went....

Fellow LJ former owners represent! Ahem.

I agree that in sheer pace the XU-2 would have been a monster. Pity that an LJ's rear suspension is worse than a leaf setup... Truly awful...

[302 XC]

melz,
good point
i do and many others would find it hard for people to come on here and bag out the LEGENDARY GTHO PHASE 3
(it is a fordforum )???
when clearly they really have no "heart" in the arguement
wouldnt u say ???
the PHASE 3 is a legend, wether some like it or not
wether it has "titles","race cred" or "watever"it is what it is,and will always be
THE LEGEND
its funny even nowadays performance cars are still compared to it
must be something goin for it

[Melz]

Hey I agree, the gtho is a legend... just making a point that don't degrade the argument by referring to guys as women. Seems to be happening all to much lately on here.

[itchy brother]

Originally Posted by lownloud

Jeezus! They must have made XU1's out of cast iron!

Well, they didnt make them out of plastic!!!

[Revolver]

Lets shut this down... OP hasnt said a word since posting, & its all off topic now.

[XDV800]

Originally Posted by smoo

Not quite, in 1974 Mercedes had the 6.9l 450SEL which topped out at just under 250kmh I think.
BMW 750i V12 was launched in 1987 which could do 155mph/250kmh, as was the 560SEL Mercedes in 1988.
In 1989 the E34 M5 first appeared and was limited to 250, who knows what she woulda reached...
The as you say the Lotus Omega and then the Vn Group A in 1991 which could muster 255kmh.

Forgot about the beemas and mercs. Yes I believe they would have taken over the crown sooner. I stand corrected. I swear I've read this several times in motoring mags over the years but i guess they are not as credible as they would have us think!

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by Elks

Well done Smoo..

The Mercedes Benz 300SEL 6.3 built from 1968 ~ 1971, is the only other contender for the title.

Fords claim that the HO was the Fastest 4 door sedan in the world was made in 1971 so why are people bring up F6's and Panamera's?

In the end there are 2 contenders. for 1971 4 door fast cars.

XY Phase 3 GTHO qtr mile 14.4 and top speed 144mph
300SEL 6.3 qtr mile 14.2 top speed 142mph.

but to my maths 144 is more than 142. Game over.

Mind you both are blindingly fast for the times. Funny you can buy a nice 6.3 for $30k..

My dream garage would have one of each..

T

There are a few other possible contenders, but not that quite match the GTHO.

Jag XJ12 - "about" 140mph (from the same company that said E-Types would do 150mph when launched). Also Maserati Quattroporte, De Tomaso Deauville, Aston Martin Lagonda (the model based on the DBS not the later Towns-designed box), and a Montiverdi, which all are listed at 140mph. Just going by memory here but I have made a list after looking into it a while back.

I have seen a website on a Mopar sedan with a factory-fitted Hemi , and their highway pursuit cars would have to be in the hunt also, but US cars were not aimed at top speed in those days. 140mph seems to be about the best they had also.

In the end the GTHO has a couple of mph over most contenders with the rev-limiter on, and would do about 150mph with it off. One car clocked ~152mph at Bathurst from memory which although Conrod straight is downhill it is also relatively short for a top speed run.

And then (going off-topic but hey I'm not the first!) in 1972 you have the GTHO Phase IV. Can't remember what speed that would do on the rev limiter, with its taller diff ratio, but 170mph is quoted for unrestricted speeds by several sources.

[Dodge]

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html
have a look at this chart, im not sure which of these is a 4 door sedan

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Dodge

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html
have a look at this chart, im not sure which of these is a 4 door sedan

No top speeds listed there so its irrelevant.....

[XR Martin]

Most of the Yank big block sedans were auto with low compression/low performance engines. Im sure there was a few special order with 4speed and hipo engines but I dont think they could ever be considered production like the P3.

I doubt an XJ12 Series I wouldnt have gotten anywhere near 140mph in real life, like most Jaguars the top speed figure was exaggerated to the say the least.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Dodge

http://www.musclecargarage.com/50fastestmusclecars.html
have a look at this chart, im not sure which of these is a 4 door sedan

That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Rodp

That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.

Cop out for what?... it is what it is, no claim has been made that isnt accurate..
Allot of green eyes around here....

[MexicanBatman]

woohooo my stock G6E is faster down the 1/4 than a dodge viper

yeah baby LOL

seriously though

how awesome are some of them cars from the 60's thats some real muscle

cant say they'd be a nice melb-syd cruiser but if your Vin Diesel and live your life one 1/4 mile at a time then sick!

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by andrewg6e

woohooo my stock G6E is faster down the 1/4 than a dodge viper

yeah baby LOL

seriously though

how awesome are some of them cars from the 60's thats some real muscle

cant say they'd be a nice melb-syd cruiser but if your Vin Diesel and live your life one 1/4 mile at a time then sick!

The G6E does the quater in 12.05secs or less???

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Melz

................ by referring to guys as women. ...........

Maybe it's a compliment...

there are some tough and smart women out there.

[MexicanBatman]

Originally Posted by Blue Beast II

The G6E does the quater in 12.05secs or less???

read again!

not every dodge viper

8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Rodp

That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.

As is the case today. The fastest 4 door sedan in the world today is no match for any of the top ten 2 doors.

But 4 door, implies 4 seats (or more) a boot etc, extra tare weight, so it become a form of qualification, like class racing.

No point in comaring an FPV or even M5 vs a mid engine sport cars.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Rodp

That's why the 4 door qualifier was a cop out, IMO. All the quick American Muscle in that era were 2 door.

there is a good chance that the phase 3 would beat them around a closed circuit anyway
most of the high powered american coupes only went fast in a straight line
the ones that handled did not accelerate as well

the phase 3 did both fairly well - certainly for a family car of the time

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Cop out for what?... it is what it is, no claim has been made that isnt accurate..
Allot of green eyes around here....

No green eyes here, I love the Phase 3 though I do prefer the XW, having owned one in GT. What was the worlds fastest 4 door prior to the P3? Did anyone even care at the time?

[Elks]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

there is a good chance that the phase 3 would beat them around a closed circuit anyway
most of the high powered american coupes only went fast in a straight line
the ones that handled did not accelerate as well

the phase 3 did both fairly well - certainly for a family car of the time

Very true,

Most of the Euro stuff at the time couldn't run a 14 sec quarter mile, and the quick US stuff, Fairlane Thunderbolts, Buick GSX, Hemi Cuda, Boss 429 stang, steered like cows..

And RODP, I'm with you, for collector value a phase 2 doesnt work as well, but it did run the qtr mile faster, and that ragged idle. MMM I love that...

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Elks

As is the case today. The fastest 4 door sedan in the world today is no match for any of the top ten 2 doors.

But 4 door, implies 4 seats (or more) a boot etc, extra tare weight, so it become a form of qualification, like class racing.

But that illustrates my point perfectly. Back in that era, it was just the style to have a 2 door sedan that had just as much back seat area and just as big a boot (more in several cases) as the Falcons.

Beyond the muscle car era, there was a clear difference between the 2 door and 4 door vehicles being designed. But in 1971, there wasn't.

[MexicanBatman]

Originally Posted by Rodp

No green eyes here, I love the Phase 3 though I do prefer the XW, having owned one in GT. What was the worlds fastest 4 door prior to the P3? Did anyone even care at the time?

that mercedes 6.3L 140+mph 2ton automatic air ps fuel injection power steer air

luxury it was

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Rodp

No green eyes here, I love the Phase 3 though I do prefer the XW, having owned one in GT. What was the worlds fastest 4 door prior to the P3? Did anyone even care at the time?

Mk II Jag I think

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

there is a good chance that the phase 3 would beat them around a closed circuit anyway
most of the high powered american coupes only went fast in a straight line
the ones that handled did not accelerate as well

the phase 3 did both fairly well - certainly for a family car of the time

That's probably a given. I guess our advantage stemmed from our premier race in that it forced Ford and Holden to build a car that can wallop up and down the straight as well as handle some pretty perilous corners ontop of the mountain.