Fastest P-Plate Legal Car

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The biggest surprise to me was how the S2k goes in comparison to the RSC and ITR. I was expecting them to be alot better but they're... well... not.

That surprises me too as it defies over 5 years experience sprinting against the things. The S2k has a few things against it; 1) some of the drivers have more money then talent, 2) they have a reputation for a nervous rear end which can make people gun shy, 3) they can sometimes take a bit of experimentation with alignment to get the best from them. But once you work through those areas they are faster than ITRs. I spent a few hours competing with stock S2ks when I was on R tyres – the S2k drivers were good steerers and the gap between us was more or less consistent at the start finish line for lap after lap. All of the quick S2k guys in Aust seem to be about 2-3 secs quicker than the quick ITR guys – just the way it is. You just have to know how to get the best out of them. have a look here for some lap times some of the quicker drivers have gone on to various Porsches, Ferraris, Evos and 350Zs (and they are very quick in them)

I (and a lot of other guys) think that Honda have dropped the ball with the new CTR – heavier, no LSD, not much more power, etc. Part of the problem is that if the model that you base your hotties on goes up in size and weight and backwards in engineering then you’re behind the 8 ball when you try to build the screamer model.

Wasn’t there a rumor somewhere about Renault overquoting the new Clios engine output? If they ever feel silly enough I’m sure they could wack the Megane turbo engine in.

If you do make it down to Vic don’t forget the Island, Winton (long) and Calder (long). I’m taking a training course at Sandown later this year and will be doing a few more sprints next year so hopefully I can pick up a few seconds.

[V3RSAC3]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Nice generalisation. Please in future refrain from telling me what I believe, because what you have said resembles what I believe in no way, shape or form.

I am a performance car enthusiast. I am a car enthusiast in general. I enjoy driving and am forever looking at ways to improve on my driving. I make sure I am well aware of the conditions on the road, traffic and what not and adjust my driving to suit. I make sure to pay attention to what other morons on the road are doing, lest they do something that could cause harm to me. I am a P-Plater though, so according to you, I think because I completed Gran Turismo (despite never having owned a playstation in my life) I am Michael Schumacher, which is not the case.

The laws are garbage. They help nothing. The deaths in NSW for P-Plate have steadily increased since their introduction, and will do so again. Rather then actually teach people how to drive and handle a motor vehicle, they impose dictatorship-esque restrictions on their freedom to drive what they choose to. That's not good leadership, that's horrible leadership with no true concern for its populace, just filling someone high up's pockets and projecting a false image as if they're "trying," to fix a problem they've done nothing but make worse.

I am glad I've beaten their idiotic laws. I hope others do. Better yet, it would make my day if every P-Plate driver in NSW and Victoria bought a restricted vehicle. What would they do then, cancel all their licences? Not likely...

i agree with you ... were the P-Platers that drive fast vehicles ... but have the sense to asses the conditions and therefor adjust our driving to suit it!!!

[1in20]

The argument basically boils down to one point. The law has a point and a valid one but its is just flawed in how it is implemented. The part that really, really annoys me is that here is Vic we had a perfectly good restricition in power to weight and it was replaced by the "Current Affair" rule.

I just really can't believe that the people responsible of the law change can think that the new law makes sense. used: Power-to-weight dictates the speed or acceleration of the car - not how many cylinders or induction method.

I wont have any respect for their idea's until they actual get serious and implement some "actual" training of P-Plate drivers, not the "how to get your licence" training that driving instructors teach atm. We actually need to teach defensive or advanced training to P-platers so they can learn that they don't have the skills that they believe they have - the key message that advanced courses give you. Recently published figures said that 70% of drivers felt they had above average driving skills - I bet my life that the vast majority don't have acceptable skills at all.

I do agree with the intention of the law - new drivers should not be driving excessively powerful cars. I wish they could make a rule about cheapo tyres too....

[V3RSAC3]

Originally Posted by 1in20

We actually need to teach defensive or advanced training to P-platers so they can learn that they don't have the skills that they believe they have - the key message that advanced courses give you. Recently published figures said that 70% of drivers felt they had above average driving skills - I bet my life that the vast majority don't have acceptable skills at all.

im taking one of these with my mates in december ... should be alright ... i dont know what it involves though

[colossus]

Glass houses and all that - are the older people (me included) forgetting what we wanted/drove when we were that age? Its all good to lecture the guy and say get a "crappy laser" (I would never have been seen dead in one, pardon the pun). At least he is doing the right thing by staying legal - he could just go out and buy a turbo/V8 and drive it (as many are doing), but no he does the right thing and everyone bags him out. I mean I do think its good that the law is there (particular in regards to turbo cars - very easy to make go faster and get in trouble with particularly the way many of them deliver power) - I dont get the V8 thing (particularly as most can only afford old underpowered V8's but thats the government for you - power/weight ratio laws would be far better. Cotton wool society strikes again (remember all its supposed to be a free country, too much government intervention nowdays driven by media hysteria) Anyway I could go on all day:

My advice would be any sort of VTEC Integra or Prelude, any XR6 Falcon, Mitsu FTO GPX, non turbo Nissan Silvia (SR20DE), non turbo Skylines, SSS Pulsars (SR20DE), BMW's. Renault Clio Sport is also pretty a good bit of kit (although I disagree with one poster entirely in his wild/innacurate claims about them being faster than a WRX/200SX - LOL).

[paule11]

Mate if you are much over 6 foot you probably will find the pulsars skylines a little tight for interior room. My wife had a sss Pulsar and I was not inspired by its power or spacevery reliable would buy another Nissan . Go to a car yard see if your comfortable in the cars mentioned in the posts above and try to avoid salesmen as much as possible

[HavocXR8]

i'd have to say that a descent car with reasonable speed would have to be a something like an el or au 5 speed manual with a piggyback and
somethings they can't pick up on like bigger fuel systems i.e. bigger fuel rail, injectors, fuel pump and maybe better coils.
ps. if you drive your car like a expect to get pulled over from time to time.

[chris0]

Originally Posted by paule11

Mate if you are much over 6 foot you probably will find the pulsars skylines a little tight for interior room. My wife had a sss Pulsar and I was not inspired by its power or spacevery reliable would buy another Nissan . Go to a car yard see if your comfortable in the cars mentioned in the posts above and try to avoid salesmen as much as possible

This is true. I'm 6'4, only reason i joined this forum is because i'm looking to buy a ba ute :P I don't find the distance bewteen steering wheel and knees badthough , i find between the console and left leg, and the door and right leg the worst
Yeah sorry, i think i missed 100kg with the weight, steffo is right ~1150kg for the sss is what i meant to type

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by colossus

My advice would be any sort of VTEC Integra or Prelude, any XR6 Falcon, Mitsu FTO GPX, non turbo Nissan Silvia (SR20DE), non turbo Skylines, SSS Pulsars (SR20DE), BMW's. Renault Clio Sport is also pretty a good bit of kit (although I disagree with one poster entirely in his wild/innacurate claims about them being faster than a WRX/200SX - LOL).

Disagree with me all you want... any pre-03 WRX will stare at nothing but my tail-lights (I own an RSC). So will any standard 200SX Turbo. The list goes on and on... any pre-BA XR8. Perhaps you'd like a list? Its pretty extensive. :

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Wasn’t there a rumor somewhere about Renault overquoting the new Clios engine output? If they ever feel silly enough I’m sure they could wack the Megane turbo engine in.

I haven't heard about that one, the biggest innovation in the Clio 197 besides the all-new chassis being the well-geared 6-spd manual. However, soon in Europe, the Clio III Phase II upgrade is coming, so there might be a chance of the Clio III Sport getting a power bump soon? Either way, can't wait until they hit Aussie soil.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Disagree with me all you want... any pre-03 WRX will stare at nothing but my tail-lights (I own an RSC). So will any standard 200SX Turbo. The list goes on and on... any pre-BA XR8. Perhaps you'd like a list? Its pretty extensive :

So is roger cordia's

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Disagree with me all you want... any pre-03 WRX will stare at nothing but my tail-lights (I own an RSC). So will any standard 200SX Turbo. The list goes on and on... any pre-BA XR8. Perhaps you'd like a list? Its pretty extensive. :

rofl...

[Sathanas]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Disagree with me all you want... any pre-03 WRX will stare at nothing but my tail-lights (I own an RSC). So will any standard 200SX Turbo. The list goes on and on... any pre-BA XR8. Perhaps you'd like a list? Its pretty extensive. :



I haven't heard about that one, the biggest innovation in the Clio 197 besides the all-new chassis being the well-geared 6-spd manual. However, soon in Europe, the Clio III Phase II upgrade is coming, so there might be a chance of the Clio III Sport getting a power bump soon? Either way, can't wait until they hit Aussie soil.

Hmm, I think Performance Car mag tested a MY97 (totally std) @13.7secs. The Renault does it in about 14.4 or so afaik.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Renault-Cli...slip-8425.html

EDIT: The RCS in the article is modified as well. Exhaust and filter...

To be fair i've seen WRX 1/4 times vary from about 13.6 through to 14.4. All depends on the launch, and how you change gears...Lose the boost and its all over.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Sathanas

Hmm, I think Performance Car mag tested a MY97 (totally std) @13.7secs. The Renault does it in about 14.4 or so afaik.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Renault-Cli...slip-8425.html

EDIT: The RCS in the article is modified as well. Exhaust and filter...

To be fair i've seen WRX 1/4 times vary from about 13.6 through to 14.4. All depends on the launch, and how you change gears...Lose the boost and its all over.

The 165kw megane would do a 14.4, not the clio. The clio is a high 14 - flat 15 car at best. Provided that the WRX gets a good launch, nothing from renault would stand a chance.

[nugget378]

One of these would have be on that list Steffo? :P



These were the quickest thing going when I was a kid...

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by steffo

Disagree with me all you want... any pre-03 WRX will stare at nothing but my tail-lights (I own an RSC). So will any standard 200SX Turbo. The list goes on and on... any pre-BA XR8. Perhaps you'd like a list? Its pretty extensive.

Originally Posted by nugget378

So is roger cordia's

No!! It IS Rodger Cordia!!!!



| [/url] |

[Steffo]

First... who the hell is Roger Cordia? used:

124kW 200Nm and 1035kg (RSC) 119.80kW/tonne 193.23Nm/tonne

155kW 290Nm and 1255kg for WRX pre-bug eye (94-98 shape) - 123.50kW/tonne and 231.08Nm/tonne (98-00 got 160kW and up to 1270kg)

Bug-Eye WRX = 160kW 292Nm and 1390kg, for 115.11kW/tonne and 210.07Nm/tonne.

Now with the old WRX's you factor in age (less power then new, which will vary from owner to owner and their treatment of the vehicle in question), the sub-4000rpm lag-hole (or torque-hole if you will), the requirement for a really aggressive launch to get anywhere etc etc.

The Bug-Eye is just heavy and suffers from the same low-rpm lack of any sort of grunt worth mentioning. Not to mention the weight gain.

Post-Bug-Eye got 168kW and 300Nm and importantly alot of the lag was sorted. Hence why I say pre-03.

Some of the posts though....

[normxb]

Off topic & On topic.....By an OLD Phart .
O/T
Since the Drop in interest rates a few years ago , young people could easily buy a New 2 story house , New furniture , His & Her's cars Etc. 100% loan . They wanted everything Now , not willing to wait till they can afford it . See how many mortgagee sales there are lately , (2,300 NSW I think , in the last 6 months) , they go in too deep , too quick . We waited 9 years to buy our first house because Int. rates were 18-1/2% and needed a big deposit . A few people we know paid $450,000 +/- , With a 1/2% interest rise , and they couldn't afford to keep the house , one couple have a bill for $87,500 and NO house . We "tried" to tell them to wait a while , but no "they wanted it now" , it cost them dearly .

On Topic
You wait 16 years to get your "L's" , spend 1 year in P1's (90k's) 2 years on you P2's (100k's) , ( as long as you behave yourself ) then 60 years , "unrestricted" . I don't know if that makes sense to you , but it does to me .

Don't worry , we thought things were strict then , and they were . Lose you licence , keep on driving , get caught again (not licenced) massive fines and/or "clink time". How many warnings do you get these day's ? Police had Heaps more Powers those days . And if you lost your licence , it was a real "embarrassment" , your mates "looked down on you" not like today , you seem to be a Hero .

What brought all this on ?, I was talking to a mate last night , his son was on P's for 6 years Speeding & DUI 3 times and finished up Periodic Detention for 2 years in "Silverwater" . At the time he thought he was "Really Cool".

4 weeks ago , he applied for a "Cream Job" as a driver ( through a friend ) the only reason he didn't get the job was his "driving record" . It would have set him up for life . Job was for driving a Company Director , the NEW Falcon would have been for his to use 24/7 , when he wasn't needed by the boss . I'm afraid he doesn't feel "so cool" any more. He's got a wife & 2 kids .

Originally Posted by yift

i love the mentality of the young guys today, i see it with customers at work and my friends brothers/sisters etc.
You guys basically live by the same motto as all us older people did but worse.
Why should i listen or do things like the way i should, it wont happen to me!
That is where the young people of today are taking it way too far because of the flexibility they have and the fact that everything is easier to get today. I'm not just talking about driving like idiots and having hotted up cars, they are only part of the equation, its also the drug taking and alcohol intake/abuse.

I used to have the same mentality then one by one friends of mine were dropping off like flies from car accidents or being killed by drunk drivers (p platers and full licenced) (same here) drug overdoses etc, the government doesn't give a but your families do.

respect and obey the rules so your family doesn't have to bury you!who gives a flying ** if the car you want for your p's is banned, like guys have said before buy a shitbox, build a good rapport with your insurance company and get your dream car when your off your p's.

SO back to the original question " Fastest P-Plate Legal Car" , Any one that's with-in the law , and one that won't bring unwanted attraction of the Police , and Behave yourself . You won't regret it when your an "Old Phart".

I know , I've got 3 kids , 15y/o , 18 Y/o and one soon to will be 21 .ALL kids think the Oldies are stupid . 21 y/o said the other day " Gee Dad , I should have listened to you years ago , I've done so many dumb things you told me not too" . At least she realised now , in time .

Sorry for the "novel" , but don't forget "we were young once"

[4Vman]

Rather ironical isn't it that the "kids" think the "oldies" have no idea or are wrong with a conservative stance on limiting the vehicles available to inexperience drivers..... yet these "oldies" were young once too, and through the benefit of being "young" and gaining experience have moderated and formed these "conservative" views....
Can anyone else see the irony in this?
IMO Its unfathomable to think anyone can even come close to justifying an "open slather" approach to vehicle access to inexperienced drivers.. especially today with the vastly increased aray of vehicles and amount of power upgrade modifications available for low bucks, it just defy's logic. :

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by nugget378

One of these would have be on that list Steffo? :P



These were the quickest thing going when I was a kid...

Hahaha! where are the neons and cannon exhaust??!!

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Steffo

First... who the hell is Roger Cordia? used:

124kW 200Nm and 1035kg (RSC) 119.80kW/tonne 193.23Nm/tonne

155kW 290Nm and 1255kg for WRX pre-bug eye (94-98 shape) - 123.50kW/tonne and 231.08Nm/tonne (98-00 got 160kW and up to 1270kg)

Bug-Eye WRX = 160kW 292Nm and 1390kg, for 115.11kW/tonne and 210.07Nm/tonne.

Now with the old WRX's you factor in age (less power then new, which will vary from owner to owner and their treatment of the vehicle in question), the sub-4000rpm lag-hole (or torque-hole if you will), the requirement for a really aggressive launch to get anywhere etc etc.

The Bug-Eye is just heavy and suffers from the same low-rpm lack of any sort of grunt worth mentioning. Not to mention the weight gain.

Post-Bug-Eye got 168kW and 300Nm and importantly alot of the lag was sorted. Hence why I say pre-03.

Look I have nothing against the Clio Sport - I was going to buy one at one stage to commute to the city in (small, fast, fuel efficient). But there is no way that in a straight line it will be quicker than any rex or 200sx both of which are mid 14 second cars, capable of low 6 second sprints to 100 and SO easy to mod (exhaust alone has substantial gains). The clio is in the "hot hatch" 7sec to 100 and 15 second quarter mile bracket. I'm not sure what lag your talking about in the rex, my housemate has one and there is solid boost from 2500rpm onwards - even if you dont launch the thing there is more than enough balls to tear past most things by the time you hit second. The classic shapes may be getting on a bit but most are well maintained (like our own GT's) and 90% of them are modded 13 second cars.

[all4ford]

Get a BA Falcon or Futura from the auctions, set you back about $12-13k, with reasonable kay's. They go great, I have one of them on my P's. But I'm lucky because I got my P's before the new laws and I also have my 351 XW. hehehe. To those who say P-Platers aren't targeted, of course they are, but it is profiling. The one that annoys me is when a cop (highway patrol) sits up your ***, trying to put pressure on you to make a mistake, so they can pull you over, it's happened to me at least 5 times. I should of slammed on the brakes and the bastard's could of run into me and it would of been their fault, only they would have lied, like they ALWAYS do.

[normxb]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Rather ironical isn't it that the "kids" think the "oldies" have no idea or are wrong with a conservative stance on limiting the vehicles available to inexperience drivers..... yet these "oldies" were young once too, and through the benefit of being "young" and gaining experience have moderated and formed these "conservative" views....
Can anyone else see the irony in this?
IMO Its unfathomable to think anyone can even come close to justifying an "open slather" approach to vehicle access to inexperienced drivers.. especially today with the vastly increased array of vehicles and amount of power upgrade modifications available for low bucks, it just defy's logic. :

Yep , 4Vman , I can see where you're coming from , but like some (not all) younger guy's don't see it that way , "Oldies" know nothing .
That's why my "rambling" last post , as in "New House" with the lot , " Now ". "Just got my "P's" , I want the latest & greatest "Now" . "Patience is a vertue "

With Footy & Cricket , how long does it take for these guy's to get to "A Grade" team . "Experience" in the lower grade teams is the Keyword .

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by colossus

Look I have nothing against the Clio Sport - I was going to buy one at one stage to commute to the city in (small, fast, fuel efficient). But there is no way that in a straight line it will be quicker than any rex or 200sx both of which are mid 14 second cars, capable of low 6 second sprints to 100 and SO easy to mod (exhaust alone has substantial gains). The clio is in the "hot hatch" 7sec to 100 and 15 second quarter mile bracket. I'm not sure what lag your talking about in the rex, my housemate has one and there is solid boost from 2500rpm onwards - even if you dont launch the thing there is more than enough balls to tear past most things by the time you hit second. The classic shapes may be getting on a bit but most are well maintained (like our own GT's) and 90% of them are modded 13 second cars.

The RSC is faster then 7 0-100 and 15 1/4, that's the thing. The 7.3 0-100 is a Renault claim and slow Wheels & Motor times. EVO from the UK has done consistant mind 6's 0-100 from them and they have the trap speeds of mid-14 sec cars. Anyone at the strip who can launch with some finesse and shift gears properly can get in the mid-high 14's with one. They're on level ground with a standard S14/15 200SX and 94-02 WRX.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The RSC is faster then 7 0-100 and 15 1/4, that's the thing. The 7.3 0-100 is a Renault claim and slow Wheels & Motor times. EVO from the UK has done consistant mind 6's 0-100 from them and they have the trap speeds of mid-14 sec cars. Anyone at the strip who can launch with some finesse and shift gears properly can get in the mid-high 14's with one. They're on level ground with a standard S14/15 200SX and 94-02 WRX.

Motor ran a 14.4 from a stock 200SX. But like you said, Wheels and Motor times are slow. Have you taken your RSC to the track yet?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 3

Motor ran a 14.4 from a stock 200SX. But like you said, Wheels and Motor times are slow. Have you taken your RSC to the track yet?

Not yet, but I am soon.. WSID, then EC when I get some new tyres.

As a guide though... in my stock WP Zetec Fiesta with a full tank of fuel, nothing taken out of the car, I ran 17.252 @ 77.98mph at WSID and Motor did 17.75 in the same sort of car... actually, in the lighter LX (1029 vs 1038kg) which has the same suspension/engine/gearbox/tyres. So... we'll see soon.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Not yet, but I am soon.. WSID, then EC when I get some new tyres.

As a guide though... in my stock WP Zetec Fiesta with a full tank of fuel, nothing taken out of the car, I ran 17.252 @ 77.98mph at WSID and Motor did 17.75 in the same sort of car... actually, in the lighter LX (1029 vs 1038kg) which has the same suspension/engine/gearbox/tyres. So... we'll see soon.

Is your's the Clio 172 or the 182?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 3

Is your's the Clio 172 or the 182?

172.

The straight line performance difference is minimal... the 172's are 1035kg and 124kW @ 6250rpm, 200Nm @ 5400rpm.

182 has 131kW @ 6500rpm and 200Nm @ 5250rpm at 1090kg. 119.80kW/tonne in the 172 and 120.18kW/tonne in the 182. The win would come down to the driver. However in corners... 182 Cup v 172 or normal 182....

[EB 2 XR8]

mate i had a EB XR8 maunal i was 17. Don't get a powerful car, there not worth it i ake the train now coz i lost my lisence. you hearing it first hand mate. Now i have EF 2 XR6 manual, 17" rims sunroof, and im riding slow.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by EB 2 XR8

mate i had a EB XR8 maunal i was 17. Don't get a powerful car, there not worth it i ake the train now coz i lost my lisence. you hearing it first hand mate. Now i have EF 2 XR6 manual, 17" rims sunroof, and im riding slow.

Mate out of everybody who I used to cruise with I'm the only one left with my licence.

I've only lost 2 points so far and that was 2 years ago on the day I got my P's.

You just gotta know the right time to give it a squirt and read the situation the cops have become very bold and cunning and the bastardos have listed my car or something because I get followed heaps and my car is a stocko.

EB XR8 sounds like it would have been sweet. Funny thing though was there was a "crew" called the "5 litre club" in town yet somehow they were embarassed a few times by sixes and fourbangers they musn't have known how to drive or their cars were cactus.

Anyway those days are behind heres hoping they open a track within at least 800 kays from me.

[[Tonko]]

Why do you need the "fastest p-plate legal car?"
Heres a shocking thought, Learn to drive first, get some experience up and learn from the mistakes you made in that old shitbox...
Or do some of you just want to do it to show off and "stick it up the cops"?
Learn the basics first, and then move on....