Chinese Military Build Up - 60 minutes this Sunday

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Major wars and events

* 1927 to 1949: Chinese Civil War against the Kuomintang (KMT) as the Chinese Red Army.
* 1937 to 1945: World War II against Japanese occupied forces in China while harassing the Nationalist troops.
* 1949: Yangtze incident (the battle against British warships on the Yangtze river).
* 1950–1951 Invasion of Tibet 1950–1951
* 1950 to 1954: Korean War (under the official banner of the Chinese People's Volunteers, although they consisted of PLA regulars).
* 1954 to 1955: First Taiwan Strait Crisis.
* 1958: Second Taiwan Strait Crisis at Quemoy and Matsu.
* October 1962 to November 1962: Sino-Indian War.
* 1967: Chola incident with India.
* 1965 to 1970: Vietnam War (over 320,000 Chinese soldiers served in North Vietnam).
* 1969 to 1978: Sino-Soviet border conflict.
* 1974: Battle of the Paracel Islands.
* 1979: Sino-Vietnamese War.
* 1986 and 1988: Border and naval skirmishes with Vietnam.
* 1989: Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.
* 1995 to 1996: Third Taiwan Strait Crisis.
* 1997 PLA Control of Hong Kong's Military Defense

and look at where they are as a world power, the UK is impotent and subservient to the EU, the yanks have so many problems of thier own they wouldnt be able to fight thier way out of a bar brawl

and tell me..... in the last century, how many conflicts have the US armed forces engaged in successfully?


the difference being that the Chinese are more organised than the Russians ever were, the Chinese have an infinitely larger manufacturing ability and higher technology standards


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosco
dont need a big navy or airforce to invade a country, just a means of delivering troops and thier equipment, covertly land enough troops in the right places, you can neutralise the majority of the defensive measures and take the rest at your leisure, the Sino-Indian war is an example of a simple land war with no air force/naval involvement

2,250,000 approx on active duty, but the concerning bit is the 750 MILLION available for military service should the chinese government decide it needs bigger numbers..... dont need to train them much, give them a gun, tell them which end is the dangerous end and send them out in human waves like in Korea

Funny how you quoted me but didnt answer the question i posed.
I'll ask again:
How many countries has China INVADED in 200yrs?
How many has the USA invaded?
And How many had the UK?

Your list mainly shows Chinas support in other peoples wars,
1989: Tiananmen Square protests of 1989.
Whats that prove?
Civil uprising ? wowee... major battle

China has been a non-aggresive country for quite a long time.
It hold no bases outside its borders, unlike other "free" western countries who have based dotted all over the world.

Look at China geographically....

Hmm how will it "invade" us when its so bloody far away?
Sneak attack?

Yet again people like to "see" a build up as a threat simply because the media tells us it is.

Why is it ANY country that decides to strenghten itself militariliy is suddenly a threat? (Apart from the USA)

China does not have the capability to invade anyone that is not connected to its borders. Thailand yes as its close enough.

You cant invade a country using clandestine operations, that just turns into a suicide mission.

You also need air superiority before you ever land any troops anywhere.
This means they need to establish a very large carrier force or have an airbase in a neighbouring country which can support sustained airoperations day and night.

Which of our neighbouring countries has this capability has this? None

Again which has long range bomber force? None

Which has a sizable fleet of long range heavy lift transports? None

Inflight refuellers? None...

Why would China need to invade anyone when it financially basically runs the planet already?
it owns a sizeable chunk of Americas debt!
It is buying into major projects (oil, minerals) all over the world, in the same way other nations and multinationals have done.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by flappist

So basically nothing will change.........

Kind of like being invaded by the greens?

I do struggle to comprehend though, what would the game plan be?

[blownvn]

Originally Posted by flappist

They would implement a regime where the ordinary people have no rights, have to work under unfair laws implemented by faceless beurocrats and have all the fruits of their toil stolen and wasted on politically favoured white elpehants and minority groups.

The media will constantly sprout carefully crafted propaganda in the form of soap operas and "current affair" shows featuring "pretty people" and self proclaimed experts so as to convince the stupid people that this good for them and that any change will bring about hellfire and damnation.

Anyone who disagrees with this will be attacked from all directions and jailed, discredited, bankrupted and eventually burned at the stake as a heretic.

So basically nothing will change.........

LOL. I like it.


On another note though, it's funny reading some of the comments here with people adamant that nothing like this could ever happen. People need to bone up on their history. It has all happened before and it will all happen again.

[blownvn]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

China has been a non-aggresive country for quite a long time.
It hold no bases outside its borders, unlike other "free" western countries who have based dotted all over the world.

The people of Nepal might disagree with you there.

[JC260]

Originally Posted by bungarra

If you hit Darwin hard and fast enough, you would be able to grab the RAAF assets there as well.

What RAAF assets in Darwin exactly?

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Kind of like being invaded by the greens?

I do struggle to comprehend though, what would the game plan be?

much better be invaded by a foreign country than have Greens running the show.....

[56L]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

much better be invaded by a foreign country than have Greens running the show.....

second that,the way things are turning out we are most likely doomed anyway

[XRDRIFT]

Geez, China will not and cannot invade Aus, for the main reason, it has too much to lose for very little gain.

Economics is the main, plus we are so lucky to have allies that WILL help us when and IF that time comes, we rose to the aid of Americans in the Persian Gulf war, and now in the current war agaist terrorism in the middle east and afghanistan.

This so called "Invasion" will never happen, purely because it will become to political!!!, China will be condemned and will have the world against it. They woul dlose hands down, not without giving a good fight but the combined forces of the US, UK, plus ours, and whatever allies we will gather, China will be covered form the east coast, southern pasrt of Asia and not to mention Sea and Air dominance over it.

End of the day, its all Scare mongering, and although Im getting my gun license this year, it wont be for shooting Chinesse invaders, but wild pigs

Just live life to the fullest I say and lets enjoy this lucky country, with whacky nutjob politicians......Silly Independants

[fte50]

To write off Chinas threat on the basis of distance is ludicrous, and i firmly believe they will overtake the US as #1 superpower (if not already - deliberate silence).
As has been mentioned earlier, China does not need to invade with firepower.

They are "Legally Buying In" to what they see as needed in foreign nations. Today they might not be succesful, however tomorrow they will.

[bungarra]

Jim Goose, Tibet is an invaded nation by the Chinese. Tibet was an independant nation until the 1950's when communist forces invaded and slaughtered a lot of the population. They attempted an invasion of Nepal and failed as the Nepalese and British fought them in the Himalayan mountain passes and beat them, the Chinese still arm and support Maoist extremists in Nepal. Chia attempted an incursion into mongolia and Vietnam, both became very costly for them as the Mongols decided Chinese dinner meant eating Chinese troops!!

The Chinese could hit us very easy. They have the same SF incursion style submarines as the US has, they are a direct copy. China doesn't care about world opinion and never has, the US is too tied up in its current committments and so is the UK and as for the UN, they are a toothless tiger who issue rules to troops under UN command such as the enemy has to fire on you first before you can fire back even if they are within your perimeter.

Funnily enough, the Chinese were the first to complain when we bought the new ANZAC frigates and about Australia wanting to buy newer aircraft as being military expansionists.

Also the Chinese have just completed an underground nuclear submarine base in Hengzhou province, it was almost complete before it got picked up by intelligence resources. Hidded as part of the olympic building programme.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Jim Goose, Tibet is an invaded nation by the Chinese. Tibet was an independant nation until the 1950's when communist forces invaded and slaughtered a lot of the population. They attempted an invasion of Nepal and failed as the Nepalese and British fought them in the Himalayan mountain passes and beat them, the Chinese still arm and support Maoist extremists in Nepal. Chia attempted an incursion into mongolia and Vietnam, both became very costly for them as the Mongols decided Chinese dinner meant eating Chinese troops!!

The Chinese could hit us very easy. They have the same SF incursion style submarines as the US has, they are a direct copy. China doesn't care about world opinion and never has, the US is too tied up in its current committments and so is the UK and as for the UN, they are a toothless tiger who issue rules to troops under UN command such as the enemy has to fire on you first before you can fire back even if they are within your perimeter.

Funnily enough, the Chinese were the first to complain when we bought the new ANZAC frigates and about Australia wanting to buy newer aircraft as being military expansionists.

Also the Chinese have just completed an underground nuclear submarine base in Hengzhou province, it was almost complete before it got picked up by intelligence resources. Hidded as part of the olympic building programme.

And again... how many countries has the USA and the UK invaded in the same 200yr period.... Seemingly no one wants to answer that question

Wow submarines.... So they plan to invade a country with submarines?

strangley enough we have plans to waste money and buy 12 new submarines.

Oh thats right, we are defending ourselves, they arent.

[My poor XF]

If an incursion by special forces constitutes an invasion that the ADF will be unable to repel then I think people are belittling our defense forces capabilities.

As for Chinese naval build up, what's wrong with that? They have every right to build whatever navy they want. I would be more concerned if Indonesia started buying up amphibious landing ships etc.

Just more pointless scare mongering by a flailing "news and current affairs" program.

[fte50]

A point that has been overlooked and perhaps not even considered is the fact Australias manufacturing base has almost become non existent.
The relevance you ask ? - 1 example - During the war, Australias prime industries geared up for the war effort, GM Holdens foundry operation was conceived through the war period and became the largest foundry in the southern hemisphere. They were manufacturing tanks, radial bomber engines and a multitude of ssupport items as needed, consigned by the govt.
That foundry is now closed, as well as a heap of other manufacturers.
In the event we have a war, we are left to rely on our allies support base, or another option is to buy the artillery from China-- yeh right.

[pottery beige]

i wish China would invade us if they rocked up and took over it would save our manufacturing industry and heaps of Aussie jobs...... start seeing 'made in Aust' on those cheap aussie flags again..... haha hehe...

[fte50]

Aint that 4 sure - back to the good old 70s-80s

[HLC]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

What the? Didn't we just have a Chinese prime minister? FFS, Julia, see what you've done!?

Sixty minutes' promos are designed to grab your attention; you go to watch them and find a completely different version of the story. And to top it off it's full of sound bites and horse feces anyway...

Backlash over rudd's ousting hahaha

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Putting invasion talk aside, any thoughts on why China is building up its military particularly their Navy to such a large extent?

They wanna control certain parts of the sea where there are vast gas and oil reserves. They are claiming certain parts already but they can't without a navy so they are not intimidated.

[[Tonko]]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Jim Goose, Tibet is an invaded nation by the Chinese. Tibet was an independant nation until the 1950's when communist forces invaded and slaughtered a lot of the population. They attempted an invasion of Nepal and failed as the Nepalese and British fought them in the Himalayan mountain passes and beat them, the Chinese still arm and support Maoist extremists in Nepal. Chia attempted an incursion into mongolia and Vietnam, both became very costly for them as the Mongols decided Chinese dinner meant eating Chinese troops!!

Free Tibet? Have you read up on the Lama regime? One very rich man owning thousands of slaves. Hell, they didnt even have a plumbing (water and sewerage) until the Chinese brought them down.

On the original topic, 60 minutes is just trying to scare Australians like the American media. What sells there must sell here right?

[kcufasevigohw]

Originally Posted by fte50

To write off Chinas threat on the basis of distance is ludicrous, and i firmly believe they will overtake the US as #1 superpower (if not already - deliberate silence).
As has been mentioned earlier, China does not need to invade with firepower.

They are "Legally Buying In" to what they see as needed in foreign nations. Today they might not be succesful, however tomorrow they will.

lol, as if man !!!!!!!!!

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by My poor XF

If an incursion by special forces constitutes an invasion that the ADF will be unable to repel then I think people are belittling our defense forces capabilities.

As for Chinese naval build up, what's wrong with that? They have every right to build whatever navy they want. I would be more concerned if Indonesia started buying up amphibious landing ships etc.

Just more pointless scare mongering by a flailing "news and current affairs" program.

I never said the ADF couldn't deal with them, but a well trained and highly mobile SF team can cause enough damage in a couple of hours, what would happen on a Christmas Day when most military facilities are on skeleton crew, 98% of all fighter and surveillance pilots on leave, 97% of ADF personnel on leave at that time, the Russians even had details of the down times of all Oz bases at that period, it would take time to raise the alarm, mobilise troops from leave status etc.

Indonesia does have an amphibious capability. They have 27 HLCT, 15LCP types all made by Russia or the Netherlands with latest equipment. Indonesia is also buying stealth capable frigates.

[/QUOTE] JC260 What RAAF assets in Darwin exactly?[/QUOTE]

RAAF Darwin for one thing, with the following units: •No 396 Expeditionary Combat Support Wing
•No 321 Expeditionary Combat Support Squadron
•No 92 Wing Detachment Darwin - surveillance and response
•No 44 Wing Detachment Darwin - air traffic control
•No 13 (City of Darwin) Squadron - Air Force Reserve
•No 1 Airfield Operations Support Squadron Detachment Darwin - airfield engineering
•No 3 Combat Support Hospital Detachment Darwin
•No 114 Mobile Control and Reporting Unit Darwin - radar operations

Nice group to take out especially 92 Wing.

[/QUOTE] JimGoose Wow submarines.... So they plan to invade a country with submarines?

strangley enough we have plans to waste money and buy 12 new submarines.

Oh thats right, we are defending ourselves, they arent.[/QUOTE]

Our subs aren't nuclear armed, but you only need to use one nuclear sub to fire a torpedo or two into an oil rig or three in the Timor Sea, Bass Strait or the North West Coast, no one could prove a thing and you would cripple Australia very quickly. Same with SF troops hitting a couple of gas plant from a submarine.

Although highly unlikely that they would invade, your own words Jim, sound like those who said that Japan wouldn't attack Ameriaca or the Alliesdue to the iron ore and other minerals we sold them before WW2 and they used very successfully to attack through Asia and get to Australias door step, but your probably a modern history revisionist.

[Jim Goose]

Although highly unlikely that they would invade, your own words Jim, sound like those who said that Japan wouldn't attack Ameriaca or the Alliesdue to the iron ore and other minerals we sold them before WW2 and they used very successfully to attack through Asia and get to Australias door step, but your probably a modern history revisionist.

you forget history, japan was forced to war because of an embargo from the US.

Is anyone refusing to sell to china yet?

Our subs aren't nuclear armed, but you only need to use one nuclear sub to fire a torpedo or two into an oil rig or three in the Timor Sea, Bass Strait or the North West Coast, no one could prove a thing and you would cripple Australia very quickly. Same with SF troops hitting a couple of gas plant from a submarine.

we are talking about invasion , not nuclear capaility or destructionof the country.....

[Scott]

Geez our gear is olllllld.

[WILDTRAKPX2]

Just when you think Channel 9 and A Current Affair have set the bar at it's absolute lowest, along comes Sixty Minutes.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Shockwave XR8

Just when you think Channel 9 and A Current Affair have set the bar at it's absolute lowest, along comes Sixty Minutes.

Only today tonight could be at the same level as ACA. Sixty minutes has a long way to go.

[blownvn]

I wasn't impressed with the 60 minutes report, it was fear mongering in my opinion. There was very little substance to the report at all.

But you've got to wonder how effective those "Aircraft Carriers" (landing craft) are going to be in our defence. I'd feel better if they were equipped with some Sea Harriers (or an up-to-date equivalent).

But war with China need not start with an invasion. If America goes to war with China at any stage (Taiwan and Sth Korea are two flashpoints), then we will be there too. We live under America's protective umbrella and like it or hate it we (as a nation) will have responsibilities to fulfil.

Given that we are such a vital player in America's pacific support base it means we will be a target if hostilities commence.

[WILDTRAKPX2]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Only today tonight could be at the same level as ACA. Sixty minutes has a long way to go.

Generally yes... I would agree with you, however tonights article was more like a fictitious short story written by a doomsdayer lunatic. Very irresponsible journalism!

[buggerlugs]

Wait till next week. They're going to have a story on weight loss..............

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GTP006

I do struggle to comprehend though, what would the game plan be?

Kill all the bad guys.

[gtfpv]

funny how this 60 minutes BS makes out china may be ready to invade , and we;d have to defend the us etc .
from a completely opposit veiw . i think china has been invaded and had just about every civilisation declare war on them at one time or another in history . what do they have now . people power and money and growth . lots of it . why would they have a big army ? to invade others . i dont think so . and they should be angry with 60 minutes for the BS mongering its bad journalism and shouldnt be allowed for a story .

[My poor XF]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Indonesia does have an amphibious capability. They have 27 HLCT, 15LCP types all made by Russia or the Netherlands with latest equipment. Indonesia is also buying stealth capable frigates.

Indonesia does not posses the manpower or the funds to maintain those vessels in a seaworthy state let alone prepare for invasion. Only the two new heavy landing dock craft would probably make it across the strait.

And it's a very different world to 1941. The Chinese have no need to forcibly take what they need. they can just buy it and then make money on selling what they make.