The Notre Dame Cathedral...

[hawke]

Does anyone know or heard of the insurance on the building, and why it hasn't been mentioned?

[Citroënbender]

From a cost point of view, I'm disappointed it has burned down.

From an historical or emotive viewpoint, it's just another part of the building's history. It will be repaired, restored, and continue to be a part of France; physically, culturally, emotionally. I hope that it allows the training and upskilling of many workers, and perhaps some cultural bridging, too.

I was thinking about this the other day just after it burned; how traditionally pivotal the pealing of bells has been in a "Christian" culture. The first ringing of Nôtre Dame's bells once repairs commence, will be a massive emotional uplift, reclamation and a resurgent civic pride.

[aussiblue]

Does anyone know or heard of the insurance on the building, and why it hasn't been mentioned?

it has been. It's Government owned and like most Government (yes even Australia Commonwealth and states) they self insure (meet the repair and replacement costs themselves).

See https://www.marketwatch.com/story/no...icy-2019-04-16

Ditto the USA Federal Goverrnment e.g. https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1316/ML13169A352.pdf and https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/F...2p2_030969.pdf

How the WA Government manages self insurance https://www.icwa.wa.gov.au/riskcover

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by hawke

Does anyone know or heard of the insurance on the building, and why it hasn't been mentioned?

Without getting into specifics, technically the cathedral (the building itself) has no "insurance". Being owned by the French state, essentially the state acts as it's insurer.
The two companies contracted to the rebuild however, do have insurance cover for civil liability.


edit: aussieblue beat me to it.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Trickford

The investigation is still ongoing. As of today, the investigations are still circulating around the probability of a cigarette butt, or an electrical issue to be the cause. Still plausible yes, but I am not too sure. As said above, the two most probable causes have been knocked on the head by the opposing representatives. The fact of the matter still remains that an electrical fault was blamed within a couple of hours of the blaze starting. While the fire was still spreading. That to me still is a contentious issue.

France is a country that is on the brink of a civil war almost. A country that has a very publicised race relations issues in the recent years. So Roddy, I have to ask you this. Of those two scenarios you posted (1. A deliberate act, 2. A renovator blunder), which one of those scenarios would you prefer if you were in charge of the country? Which of those two scenarios would cause the least damage to your country, and stop a potential internal fire from erupting? (pardon the pun)

Easy , I'd prefer to know what really took place ...even if it turned out to be arson and/or terrorism.

All I'm saying is how can we be judge and jury yet without knowing all the stuff that went on that day. . I'd like as idealistic as it might sound that somehow the truth actually gets told , like it or lump it but realistically IF it is deliberate it will be covered up like Governments do .

No winners here . Whether it indeed was some sort of stupid accident , carelessness or if it turns out to be arson/terrorism the millions of people who cherish Notre Dame have lost it for a fair few years I reckon . At least nobody died out of it all ...Got to be thankful for that.

[Ben73]

Almost 900 churches vandalised last year in France, no wonder people are suspicious

[aussiblue]

It may have been a cigarette butt https://www.sbs.com.au/news/notre-da...b-before-blaze'

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

It may have been a cigarette butt https://www.sbs.com.au/news/notre-da...b-before-blaze'

Already discussed....

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...7&postcount=24

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Trickford

FYI, the Notre Dame Cathedral is not owned by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church can use it, but it is state owned.
The Catholic Church and the French state have not played ball for some time now, so the Catholic Church will not help with funding for the rebuild.

https://independentaustralia.net/lif...tre-dame,12591

How very Christian of them......

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Almost 900 churches vandalised last year in France, no wonder people are suspicious

900 churches vandalised??

Can you post some details please?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Trickford

900 churches vandalised??

Can you post some details please?

According to Snopes there were appx 875 acts of vandalism against Catholic churches in 2018.

And there are about 40,000 churches in France

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ch...yed-in-france/

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

According to Snopes there were appx 875 acts of vandalism against Catholic churches in 2018.

And there are about 40,000 churches in France

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ch...yed-in-france/

From that article:

The Ministry of the Interior released a report in February 2019 that tallied the number of acts of degradation (or vandalism) against various religious establishments. The Ministry found that there were 1,063 anti-Christian acts in 2018 (approximately 700 of which related to property crimes and 100 of which related to violent acts), 541 anti-semitic acts (81 of which were related to violence, 102 related to property crimes), and 100 anti-Muslim acts.

WTF is going on in France?? We know of the recent unrest re "yellow vest protests", but their race/religious problems (and there has been lots in the last 15 or so years) have not got as much air in the world media. Why is that?

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Trickford

From that article:


WTF is going on in France?? We know of the recent unrest re "yellow vest protests", but their race/religious problems (and there has been lots in the last 15 or so years) have not got as much air in the world media. Why is that?

Christianity in Europe is in decline due to natural Death v birth ratios.
Muslims predicted to be largest religion by 2050 overtaking Christianity for the exact opposite reason . More births v deaths ratio.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ing-in-europe/

It doesnt explain how the fire started though...

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Was there in August last year and did the full tour. Went to the bell tower and met all the gargoyles....lol

Sad day indeed as its a beautiful place very rich in history. Its had its fair share of challenges and rebuilds so its heartening to see the immediacy of the rebuild effort.

The footage in the youtube clips is thought provoking, but then again with the plethora of actions displaying the worst of human behaviour we’re all becoming wired to instinctively think terrorism. I dont think it is but either way, lucky its salvageable and will continue on as an amazing monument.

Peace....

I was booked (had been for 6 months) to do a tour of it while in Paris, trouble was I arrived in London for the first part of my trip and saw it on the news of the hotel as I checked in

I’m not a church goer but I really wants to see it while I was in town

[Citroënbender]

That is unfortunate! What did you do instead?

Did you have a go a rush hour driving on the Périphérique?

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

That is unfortunate! What did you do instead?

Did you have a go a rush hour driving on the Périphérique?

I still went there and had a chat with some workers who let me in some areas for photos, I needed up doing a Tour of the castle instead

I didn’t do any driving in Paris and I was only there 2 days, the holiday was mainly to visit WW1 & WW2 battle fields and to be up the Menin Gate for ANZAC day

[Citroënbender]

Good result, especially in the circumstances. How was the general vibe on the street after such a big episode? I’m curious because the “old France” is yielding so fast to a shifting demographic.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Good result, especially in the circumstances. How was the general vibe on the street after such a big episode? I’m curious because the “old France” is yielding so fast to a shifting demographic.

The street vendors are cashing in on it
Mum n dad normal people think it’s a loss, but aren’t crying in the streets

All see to think the president is full of it by saying it’ll be open for the olympics

[Tickford.]

Another "accident" overnight, or deliberate arson? How many churches have been set on fire in France now?
When are the French authorities going to realise these fires are not accidents? They are the work of "religious" extremists.



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...rance/12470310

[aussiblue]

Yes arson but just as likely just nutters rather than religious extremists. It contains the tomb of Louis Juchault de Lamoricière a former Captain of the French Algerian Zouaves and for a short time a French Governor-general of Algeria so it might also even be something to do with the anti-colonial memorials thing going on at the moment. Noting per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeri...use_of_torture "Torture was a frequent process in use from the beginning of the colonization of Algeria [by France] which started in 1830" there is till some strong feeling about this from modern day Algerians living in France. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerians_in_France

People of Algerian origin account for a large sector of the total population in France. Some immigrated during colonial rule in Algeria starting in the 1920s, and large numbers chose to emigrate to France from the 1960s onwards due to political turmoil in Algeria.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200718...city-of-nantes

French authorities opened a criminal investigation into a major fire that broke out in the cathedral in the western French city of Nantes on Saturday. The blaze blew out stained glass windows and destroyed the grand organ in the 15th-century building.

Prosecutor Pierre Sennes told reporters three fires had been started at the site and authorities were treating the incident as a criminal act. He gave no other details.

Dozens of firefighters brought the fire under control after several hours. Smoke was still coming out of the Gothic structure after massive flames earlier engulfed the inside.

The Nantes blaze comes just over a year after a major fire at the Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris, which destroyed its roof and main spire.

Local fire chief Laurent Ferlay told reporters 104 firefighters were still at the site to ensure the blaze was completely under control.

The fire had broken out behind the grand organ, which was completely destroyed, he said. Stained glass windows at the front of the cathedral were blown out.

However, the damage was not as bad as initially feared.

"We are not in a Notre-Dame de Paris scenario. The roof has not been touched," Ferlay said.

It was not the first time fire has damaged the cathedral.

It was partly destroyed during World War Two in 1944 after Allied bombings. In 1972 a fire completely ravaged its roof. It was finally rebuilt 13 years later with a concrete structure replacing the ancient wooden roof.

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"The fire of 1972 is in our minds, but at this stage the situation is not comparable," Nantes Mayor Johanna Rolland told reporters.

Cecile Renaud, who works in a bakery facing the cathedral and alerted the fire services early on Saturday, told BFM TV she had seen huge flames inside the building.

"It was a huge shock. It's extremely sad."

In 2015, a fire that appeared to have been caused by renovation work destroyed most of the roof of another church in Nantes, the Saint-Donatien Basilica.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Another "accident" overnight, or deliberate arson? How many churches have been set on fire in France now?
When are the French authorities going to realise these fires are not accidents? They are the work of "religious" extremists.



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...rance/12470310

Shhhhhh - don't say the I or M words....

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Shhhhhh - don't say the I or M words....

Way more non-believers in France than Muzzies.

I'd be checking out atheist property developers!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Another "accident" overnight, or deliberate arson? How many churches have been set on fire in France now?
When are the French authorities going to realise these fires are not accidents? They are the work of "religious" extremists.https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...rance/12470310

Not sure why you think they're accidents when the first line of your link says Arson

[CoupeKing]

I wonder if Big Mike is drinking to this one too?

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Not sure why you think they're accidents when the first line of your link says Arson

"Suspected" arson. Still under investigation.

I read the article. And other articles as well. No confirmed reason for the fire as yet. Just like the Notre-Dame fire, there's a probability of the authorities deeming it an accident to "keep the peace".

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Shhhhhh - don't say the I or M words....

I will if you like 👍