Proof QLD Speed Cameras are Revenue Raising..

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by JG65TE

They have 2 camera locations in my street. There has never been a fatal in my street ever. But like ya say, maybe its the cameras stopping the fatals........... I also have a rock out the front that keeps wild elephants away. Must work coz I have never seen a wild elephant in my street either... You QLD boys have nothing to worry about yet............ wait til they put em all over major arterials at 5 kays apart....... anyone wanna buy a rock ? lol

Very funny, and it is the same logic being used here.

Sunday night we had a doozy snowfall and black ice over the hill between Huonville and Kingston. Quite a few crashes as the cars had no traction. Many had to be pushed off the road due to the ice. Anyhow, after the snow had melted and the road opened again...hello speed camera! Wow! Saving lives and preventing crashes.

[LOW_NL]

how much for that rock that keeps wild elephants away, better to be safe then sorry lol

[2011G6E]

I thought the conditions for using speed cameras/laser guns/radar guns was that they don't get set up at the bottom of hills? That seems to be half tha places you see the damn things...

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I thought the conditions for using speed cameras/laser guns/radar guns was that they don't get set up at the bottom of hills? That seems to be half tha places you see the damn things...

I also notice this in the Courier Mail today:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/busine...-1226094134195

A RASH of speeding fines issued by fixed cameras in the Clem7 tunnel is proving to be a further blow for operators of the beleaguered tollway.
Figures provided by the Queensland Police Service show fixed cameras in the tunnel are issuing almost eight times more fines to motorists than the Pacific Motorway camera at Tarragindi.

From August last year to April this year, the four tunnel cameras snapped 19,112 drivers doing in excess of the speed limit - or 70 a day.

By comparison, the Tarragindi camera caught only nine drivers a day and the Main St camera 33 offenders daily.

The heavy-handed approach to speed enforcement in the tunnel appears to be taking its toll on traffic volumes, which have slumped by 2000 vehicles a day since outrage began building over the fines.

Last month, The Courier-Mail revealed how hundreds of motorists were facing the loss of their licences after being snapped doing speeds well in excess of the limit after it was suddenly slashed to 40km/h in response to breakdowns and roadworks in the Clem7.

I would lay money on the fact that people are not avoiding it because they "want to speed in comfort without being fined", but rather the fact that they don't want to lose thier licence over a momentary mistake in an area with suddenly changing speed limits, which should not be allowed anywhere.

[burnz]

thats a joke, hopefully nsw will remove these revenue raisers soon.

[Ben73]

I haven't seen any mobile revenue raisers around the hunter lately. They still using these things?

[Bundy]

The best one in QLD since the first of July is the silver Unmarked, Unsigned Nissan Navara with canopy and Dark window tint, " Saving lives " on the Bruce Hwy around Mount Larkam / Benarby / Calliope.

Really who are they kidding ??

This State Govt is a joke and has to go and the Federal one is there with them all the way. If you earn over 154k with your spouse in the FY and you don't have private health cover guess what - Health TAX of over $1000.

Don't bleat that "Awe you can afford it on that wage" either next year the threshold will get lower and lower, mark my words ....

[grandpa_spec_F6]

The one at kedron here in brisbane is at the bottom of the hill LOTS.

They also have it on the straight on the opposite side.

No joke, just about every wave of traffic from the lights, you are going to see it flash. Someone always gets done.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by bundy

The best one in QLD since the first of July is the silver Unmarked, Unsigned Nissan Navara with canopy and Dark window tint, " Saving lives " on the Bruce Hwy around Mount Larkam / Benarby / Calliope.

Really who are they kidding ??

Yep, seen that one. Ever noticed the amusing way they don't slash the sides of the highway much, but the areas where the camera vans always are is slashed right back from the road, and usually you only see the roof of the vehicle?

The trick is, everyone knows it's there...75% of the time it's just north of Mt Larcom, the rest of the time it's spread between jus north of Calliope and south of Bernaraby (near the "play Roadside Trivia to keep alert" signs usually)...and everyone flashes the headlights. I make sure the cruise control is set on dead 100kph, but once we're past it, everyone overtakes again on the way down towards Miriam vale...so what did they achieve?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Its about as sensible as saying that since no drunk drivers crashed their cars on the princess highway in the last year then we should allow drunk driving on that road, and only make it illegal where there have been crashes due to drunks losing control.

Whilst some will contest that drinking and speeding are two different things, in this context they are not, and there will be some that will drivel on about how they'd feel safer in a car with a speeding driver than a drunk driver(please dont bother)

Increasing speed increases your risk of incident, so does increases alcohol content. We have set lines in the sand for both.

Nobody says that speeding does not increase your risk. Sometimes it is riskier to be doing the speed limit and nodding off in pure boredom as the K's tick by. Modern cars are much more detached from the outside world, so unless you are really watching your speedo you can easily drift 10-20k's over the limit.

The fact that the limit was set on that piece of road 60 years ago when cars had bicycle tyres and drum brakes should also be a point of concern. many Australians cover long distances on highways in their daily commute to work each day. Talking to many of my co-workers, most have drifted off to sleep at some time behind the wheel. I notice a lot of the old 'driver reviver' sites are no longer in operation. Most also agree that sitting 20k's over the limit on empty pieces of road with good visibility is great for their alertness.

[mytgxl]

Originally Posted by MAD

Where's the crash 'history' for the cameras installed on Melbourne's Eatlink tollway? They were installed as it was being built.

Well done end of argument for me ! That comment throws out all the BS about safety right on the spot! If everyone that got caught speeding took their case to court imagen how long it would take to be heard! Perhaps that is the answer to the problem, tie the courts up!

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 1 bad ef

Well done end of argument for me ! That comment throws out all the BS about safety right on the spot! If everyone that got caught speeding took their case to court imagen how long it would take to be heard! Perhaps that is the answer to the problem, tie the courts up!

I did make comment on this limited view previously

Originally Posted by sudszy

It would make sense to install cameras in locations where there have been numerous collisions, however, many accident/fatality locations and crashes are once only locations, making decisions only based on previous history as the RACQ suggests is taking a reactive approach - closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

We do want our authorities to be pro-active,(not just waiting before someone is killed before enacting measures and or legislation etc) and actually monitor areas which can be predicted to find driver's doing the wrong thing in large numbers...(seeing how fast their cars go on new freeways etc).

So far no-one has made any attempt to refute the logic of this, want to have a go, other than "cameras are bs" or the personal insults route?

[prydey]

why is everyone so against speed cameras? don't speed, don't get caught, its very simple. drive at a speed where regardless of the terrain, you will never go beyond the limit. if nobody sped, there would be no crashes. everyone wins.

some people may not agree with the positioning of some camera's or radars but its all about creating a 'anytime, anywhere' attitude.

[csv8]

prydey just look at the Clem 7 Tunnell fiasco and speed cameras..Thats why people are so against them. Police had to eat humble pie and tear up the fines.How many people get wrongly fined and just pay up?? Thats what the Police bank on!!!

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by sudszy

It would make sense to install cameras in locations where there have been numerous collisions, however, many accident/fatality locations and crashes are once only locations, making decisions only based on previous history as the RACQ suggests is taking a reactive approach - closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

We do want our authorities to be pro-active,(not just waiting before someone is killed before enacting measures and or legislation etc) and actually monitor areas which can be predicted to find driver's doing the wrong thing in large numbers...(seeing how fast their cars go on new freeways etc).

OK, someone had better accept the invite.

Well publicised speed cameras will slow down the traffic (often to 20% below the speed limit), stealth ones will not slow down someone who rarely uses the road.
They drive slower, but not more safely.

A visible police presence on the road will cause people to obey laws other than speeding, the reputation of a police presence will do that even better.
Very very few accidents are caused by speed - there is always another primary causal factor - which is usually against a law.

Lets enforce the laws that actually cause the accidents.

[Matty4]

I wonder what would happen to the road toll statistics if all the unmarked roadside camera cars in each state were stickered up to look like police vehicles and just drove around all day??

We all know and agree that a visible police presence on our roads is the only sure-fire way of slowing people down, so having an extra several hundred or so vehicles actually driving around must surely have an effect....hmmm....

But no money will be made from them............but isn't that what it's all about, or so they tell us.

[2011G6E]

Until driver training is consistant, well run, complicated, and difficult for those doing it, and we can weed out some of the people who just shouldn't be driving, we will need speed enforcement.
It won't happen, as apparently while they say "a licence is a privelage not a right", they do thier damndest to get and keep everyone out on the road driving who comes through the doors of the Transport Department, instead of saying to some people: "I'm sorry, but you just don't seem to hold the required skill level to hold a drivers licence".

They do it in my job as a train driver...you are "retested" every two years, and if you don't have a certain level of skills, you're "on the platform" until you get your skills back up to scratch. If you can't, see ya later buddy. The mines hammer driver skills pretty hard as well. And I'm quite sure they are strict on heavy transport drivers too.

What would be wrong with making everyone resit thier test every couple of years, and if you can't pass it, too bad?

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I did make comment on this limited view previously


So far no-one has made any attempt to refute the logic of this, want to have a go, other than "cameras are bs" or the personal insults route?

Easy enough to refute: If accidents/crashes are highly variable in location, how does a fixed camera go anywhere near remedying this?
And further, when you state that they are placed where large numbers of people are "speeding" (eg the tunnel example), you would have to correlate this with high numbers of crashes/injuries, otherwise the speed limit is arbitrarily too low. Hence the public perception that they are revenue raisers.

[mytgxl]

Originally Posted by prydey

why is everyone so against speed cameras? don't speed, don't get caught, its very simple. drive at a speed where regardless of the terrain, you will never go beyond the limit. if nobody sped, there would be no crashes. everyone wins.

some people may not agree with the positioning of some camera's or radars but its all about creating a 'anytime, anywhere' attitude.

Because they were brought in under the pretense of safety! & where does all the money go! into state revenue not into making the road more safer! With all the different speeds around you are constantly taking your eyes off the road & looking at the speedo, instead of looking at the road like you are supose to!

As for no more speeding no more crashes, I don`t think so ,as there will be somebody always falling asleep at the wheel, misjudging traffic conditions,taking eyes of the road ect.

A anytime, anywhere is not acheived by a standing speed camera but you put more police presents on the road & that will, & they will pull over other unsafe drivers that contribute to speed or wreckless driving or unroadworthy cars etc! which also cuts down on more accidents.
Then you cannot complain about revenue raising!

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I did make comment on this limited view previously


So far no-one has made any attempt to refute the logic of this, want to have a go, other than "cameras are bs" or the personal insults route?

because it is hard to refute. But it still doesn't make it right.
Maybe im a sceptic but it seems weird that they are being proactive about something that makes them money.
What about the highways that are unsafe? If they are so keen on trying to prevent accidents they would fix those roads. Oh but that would cost money. The only time governments start talking about fixing up dangerous roads is when people start making noise about it. Seems pretty reactive to me. There is no reason for a speed camera to be installed on a road that the public haven't even driven on yet.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by prydey

why is everyone so against speed cameras? don't speed, don't get caught, its very simple. drive at a speed where regardless of the terrain, you will never go beyond the limit. if nobody sped, there would be no crashes. everyone wins.

some people may not agree with the positioning of some camera's or radars but its all about creating a 'anytime, anywhere' attitude.

If nobody sped there would be no crashes???? LOL If you are being serious I feel sorry for you.

I have been involved in 2 crashes, neither were my fault and both were well below the posted speed limit.



Do you know what else could use the scare tactic of 'anywhere, anytime'.............. Regular police patrols.
But hey that would only benefit the community and the roads. We cant have that, we need to make money off speed cameras instead.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

If nobody sped there would be no crashes???? LOL If you are being serious I feel sorry for you.

I have been involved in 2 crashes, neither were my fault and both were well below the posted speed limit

Shame you've been involved in two accidents, but they weren't your fault? Yes, we hear that all the time(it was the other guy), but interestingly it comes from someone who has a disregard and actively violates current road laws.

The odds at such a young age to have been involved in two? very low, perhaps there is something else at work here involving your road skills.

Just thinking out loud, perhaps there was nothing that could have avoided it, so dont take it personally, we dont need to have the accidents described to us, we'll move on.

Originally Posted by Ben73

But hey that would only benefit the community and the roads. We cant have that, we need to make money off speed cameras instead.

I too see a need for more Police on the road and for them to be perhaps concentrating on areas which cameras cant detect, it doesnt produce a rationale that speed cameras dont serve a good purpose though.

[MAD]

The best way to train an animal, or a person, is with instant positive reinforcement.

There are cameras these days that dont even flash, therefore giving us an indication that we've done something wrong. Instead it is 2-4 weeks later we find out, and by then the message is lost.

How does a camera actually stop anything?
If speed = crashes, why are there not more crashes if there are so many people speeding?

[2011G6E]

You can very easily say "Don't speed and you won't get caught", but people don't speed and they still get caught. I've been done by Lidar, as described earlier, doing 72kph 140 meters from the officers position, a distance I later measured off to the spot I had been parked. It was obviously quite wrong, but who can be bothered funding a legal fight against it?
There are hundreds of instances in the news each year of people being wrongly caught, and some who have money behind them mount some quite drawn out legal fights which they usually always win.

Whenever any law starts to allow the easy penalising of the innocent, even in only two or three out of a hundred instances, everyone has a right to be skeptical about that law. If it also has a fine system attached to it with no real way of easily defending yourself, they have every right to doubt that it is about safety and that it's probably more about making money.

[MAD]

Another big hint to the drive behind speed cameras is Macquarie banks interest in them. Macquarie bank is interested in one thing and one thing only, lucritive investments.
Shouldn't a 'safety' device be operated at net zero?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by MAD

The best way to train an animal, or a person, is with instant positive reinforcement.

There are cameras these days that dont even flash, therefore giving us an indication that we've done something wrong. Instead it is 2-4 weeks later we find out, and by then the message is lost.

How does a camera actually stop anything?
If speed = crashes, why are there not more crashes if there are so many people speeding?

When I proffered this in the past, it seems that we don't need reward for anything, because we're adults...not school children.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying though...

Originally Posted by sudszy

The odds at such a young age to have been involved in two? very low, perhaps there is something else at work here involving your road skills.

This^^^ ridiculous, I myself have been in two as well, and I'm not yet 30...

You sir, need to stop this continual BS - I don't care what his driving history is regarding speeding, and I certainly don't need you to keep bringing it up...

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by MAD

The best way to train an animal, or a person, is with instant positive reinforcement.

There are cameras these days that dont even flash, therefore giving us an indication that we've done something wrong. Instead it is 2-4 weeks later we find out, and by then the message is lost.

How does a camera actually stop anything?
If speed = crashes, why are there not more crashes if there are so many people speeding?

So you are comparing the behaviour of dogs to humans? a dog cant remember what it did a minute ago hence why its behaviour for anything needs to be rewarded/punished immediately.

But you are suggesting humans are the same?


Most people just pay the fine and dont change their behaviour because it happened two weeks ago?......you are clutching at straws now.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by sudszy

So you are comparing the behaviour of dogs to humans? a dog cant remember what it did a minute ago hence why its behaviour for anything needs to be rewarded/punished immediately.

But you are suggesting humans are the same?


Most people just pay the fine and dont change their behaviour because it happened two weeks ago?......you are clutching at straws now.

maybe you should answer his other question.

why has an investment bank "macquarie" worried about your safety??

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by burnz

maybe you should answer his other question.

why has an investment bank "macquarie" worried about your safety??

sorry its not a question that is sensical, macquarie bank isnt worried about my safety.

neither are the people that manufacture speed cameras or seat belts, they are in it for a buck!

[kyro_02]

I speed every day, never had an accident, the only speeding fine i've ever had was when I over took a slow police hofficer..

jealous?