Level playing field, another bloody hypothetical

[cs123]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

USD to AUD conversion, RHD version premium..

So they will be cheaper here now;)

What about a Skyline then? How does the UK market go?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by cs123

So they will be cheaper here now;)

What about a Skyline then? How does the UK market go?

Unfortunately It doesn't work that way.... prices/exchange costs are negotiated in a different way and hedged.

[bobthebilda]

The fact is, cars in the US are cheaper than their australian equivalents for a number of reasons. Simple things like, California has nealry twice the population of australia, but a land size 2/3rds of victoria. Your single GM dealership in California probably has a market of 700,000 people, your Holden dealer in victoria has a market 70,000 people. If the vic salesman has to add $1000 to car to makes wages, the Californian guy only has to add $100 to car to make wages. $900 on a $25000 car is nearly 4 per cent. Add in all the other fixed costs associated with running a delearship, advertising cars, logistics etc, and volume is the main factor that determines the price of a car.

15 to 20% could easily be knocked of a cars selling price, by increasing thru put. All things being equal, cars would land around the world for roughly the same price as any other place (bar a small premium for extra transport). Then it comes to turn over of stock that adds all the extra prices. Of course the premium side of things work slightly different, in that $200,000 cars, dont tend to get made to sit in paddocks like $20,000 cars. Less availability allows better pricing power.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by cs123

10% tariff, we're down to around $79K. Freight, let's be generous and say it costs $10K more for us to freight a car than it does the USA. $69K.

Still a big difference that I can't account for.

Well the US is a different situation in that BMWs are made there.

http://www.bmwusfactory.com/

But do you remember the Pontiac GTO (monaro) or the Ford Capri (FWD), both completely made in Australia and exported to USA and sold for almost half of what they cost here.

But this hypothetical is not about disparity in price structure on a world stage, it is that the "open slather tax free" situation in on-line shopping that so many applauded in the BAR thread was extended to cars with the incumbent car industry still having to comply with all taxes, liabilities and restrictions.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Everyone seems to be worried about people being out of work when change takes place, people will be out of work, and a new industry where people can work will be created some where else.

People can not just sit on their hands and say, no lets not change with the rest of the world as people will lose jobs.

I lost my job with Telstra 15 years ago, got made redundant, as my position was no longer required due to changes in the way business, mobile phones and internet came out, there was hundreds of us that lost jobs when the mobile phone trends started. But guess what I was out of work for exactly 3 hours, before I had another job on more pay, and with some extra training I started working in the NEW mobile phone and mobile internet field.

People will always lose jobs, I have been made redundant and re trained several times, each time for the better. A GOOD worker with some initiative will always find work no matter what.

So the people will lose jobs argument is BS IMO, as they will find other jobs, people don't just lose their job, then they go home and sit down waiting to die, they go out and do something else, possibly something they enjoy more and make more money than the rut they had before. I have seen this many times in the past, generally the people with some brains and drive will better themselves each time they get made redundant, so it can actually be beneficial for a lot of people to lose jobs, it has been for me, as each time I have been made redundant I have moved into a better position a short time later.

Originally Posted by flappist

But do you remember the Pontiac GTO (monaro) or the Ford Capri (FWD), both completely made in Australia and exported to USA and sold for almost half of what they cost here.

You beat me to that one....

[hendoau99]

people will buy what they want to buy. and it won't destroy our car industry, people will just have more choice in the cars they buy. yes you can import cars very cheaply but, that's the thing, it's cheap, no dealer warranty, expensive euro parts and the cars not really set up for our rules and conditions. eg. euro headlights are offset ever so slightly to the right, so they don't shine the light into oncoming traffic. guess where thay aim when you import them over to here?.

[mik]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Everyone seems to be worried about people being out of work when change takes place, people will be out of work, and a new industry where people can work will be created some where else.

People can not just sit on their hands and say, no lets not change with the rest of the world as people will lose jobs.

I lost my job with Telstra 15 years ago, got made redundant, as my position was no longer required due to changes in the way business, mobile phones and internet came out, there was hundreds of us that lost jobs when the mobile phone trends started. But guess what I was out of work for exactly 3 hours, before I had another job on more pay, and with some extra training I started working in the NEW mobile phone and mobile internet field.

People will always lose jobs, I have been made redundant and re trained several times, each time for the better. A GOOD worker with some initiative will always find work no matter what.

So the people will lose jobs argument is BS IMO, as they will find other jobs, people don't just lose their job, then they go home and sit down waiting to die, they go out and do something else, possibly something they enjoy more and make more money than the rut they had before. I have seen this many times in the past, generally the people with some brains and drive will better themselves each time they get made redundant, so it can actually be beneficial for a lot of people to lose jobs, it has been for me, as each time I have been made redundant I have moved into a better position a short time later.



You beat me to that one....

very happy that you moved on and got a better position, and there`s some truth in what you say, but thats a very simplified vision of something that could be a major problem for some, and some industries just don`t come back once they are gone.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by mik

very happy that you moved on and got a better position, and there`s some truth in what you say, but thats a very simplified vision of something that could be a major problem for some, and some industries just don`t come back once they are gone.

It is simplified as I do not have time to write out pages and pages, but some industries will never come back, but who cares, other will take the place, dinosaurs will never come back, records will never come back, cassette and video tapes will never come back, black and white TV will never come back, CD's are on the way out, DVD hire is on its way out with the Telstra T Box and Apple TV and the like, my local DVD hire shop has already moved into smaller premises, and will be closing soon I think. So do we stop progress to save the DVD shop???

We live in one world, a fast changing world and we need to adapt fast and move with it, we now live in a global economy, I can order stuff from the the other side of the world and I can have it here the next day.

There is no real need to have things made here if we can not compete with others making them, leave them to it, reap the benefits, we will do something else, to quote Jurassic Park 'nature will find a way', we will not all of a sudden all end up with no jobs sitting at home starving to death.

[ThaFlash]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

to quote Jurassic Park 'nature will find a way'

dinosaurs are making a comeback? hypothetically hehehe...

[ebxr8240]

We have to buy o/s after all who sent these jobs o/s in the first place ???...
Clothing [budget] etc cannot be bought here any more..

[Airmon]

I don't think I could Honestly give an answer I'd be happy with without seeing Fords and Holdens local Balance sheets and whether they could remain competitive or not.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by Airmon

I don't think I could Honestly give an answer I'd be happy with without seeing Fords and Holdens local Balance sheets and whether they could remain competitive or not.

Same here...

[mik]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

It is simplified as I do not have time to write out pages and pages, but some industries will never come back, but who cares, other will take the place, dinosaurs will never come back, records will never come back, cassette and video tapes will never come back, black and white TV will never come back, CD's are on the way out, DVD hire is on its way out with the Telstra T Box and Apple TV and the like, my local DVD hire shop has already moved into smaller premises, and will be closing soon I think. So do we stop progress to save the DVD shop???

We live in one world, a fast changing world and we need to adapt fast and move with it, we now live in a global economy, I can order stuff from the the other side of the world and I can have it here the next day.

There is no real need to have things made here if we can not compete with others making them, leave them to it, reap the benefits, we will do something else, to quote Jurassic Park 'nature will find a way', we will not all of a sudden all end up with no jobs sitting at home starving to death.

ok we don`t need any skilled workers here or manufactureing, lets just do it the easy way, we`ll just buy every thing from overseas, lets just give up !!! screw the farmers we don`t need em............ we can can buy food from OVER SEA`S, tool makers, mechanical engineers, screw em all, the kids want to be robotic technicians in a car plant in Australia, sorry kids we were competing with overseas companies and holding our own, but it was just easier to give up .............but hey its ok you can work at macca`s sweeping floors or putting the sauce in with the nuggets......................... sorry XB GS 351 Coupe
we will have to agree to disagree.

[Ben73]

I think all the taxes on overseas cars is bullcrap

Jeep srt8 in USA cost about 45k. Here it is 95k. We are paying more then double then what the car is worth. Pathetic tbh.

[Ben73]

Double post

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by flappist

So was this a good idea?
Is the end worth the means?

And what would one of these things be without a poll....

Um, in the end it was not a good idea. The manufacturing base of Australia was decimated. Completely.

Was the end worth the means? The means were, FUN, man! Those 60K GTR's, folks all had a blast. My grandad shedded an FG GT-H 400 with R Spec suspension before the Aussie industry folded, what a car, it's amazing Australians built stuff like that back then!

The major question, which was unasked, is "Did the other countries provide direct/indirect support to their auto manufacturers while Australia dropped all forms of protection?" I think they did. And their industries survived.

We didn't and ours died. At the same time, we thought our farmers deserved similar non-protection, and they died off as well. We thought that was a good thing, as they burn fuel, you know. It's not good for the environment. Did the other countries protect their farmers? Yep, they did.

We said "Globalisation, it's all one world now," while the other countries slyly protected their productive industries. And so it became all one world. We ended up buying stuff from other countries in the world, and sold off bits of our country to pay for it. Nearly 100% foreign owned, personal debt got way more than the 160% of income. One day the resources prices fell, we were left with... not much but debt. And not a great deal of real productive assets to pay off the debt. But don't worry, IMF bailout awaited...ah, austerity!

Times got tough. Then in 2030 a government was elected that put into place policies to attract investment, and grow industry and agriculture, for they realised countries actually need stuff like that to be independently wealthy. Much like Thailand did in the 1990s, or Australia did post WWII. They went further and set up a Telecommunications service, and a Commonwealth Bank, so that Australia would have domestic capital, so it didn't have to borrow from overseas to fund big projects... A thriving industry formed in Australia, and we made all sorts of great products. Our living standard became the best in the world, like way back in 1971.

So the future of Australia looks good, by about 2080...

[mik]

good post JG34JA, rep to you bud.