Mazda 3 SP23??

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by 3

Either way, my point was that an auto XR6 would easily account for an auto SP23. I just don't expect a 4spd auto SP23 to run any better than a 16.5. It would be interesting to see the results when Creampuff races his friend.

The auto will not take one full second off the SP23's 1/4 mile time. Notoriously slow Wheels times aside, the auto should be a ~15.8.

And yes, an auto XR6 will easily beat an auto SP23. They're capable of better then 15.4. Motor had the auto BA XT listed as 15.28, and that's a car with a worse diff ratio, less grip etc. The XR6 is capable of at least the same performance... with the 3.45:1 diff making up for its 16kg weight gain (1688 vs 1672kg)... possibly even making it faster then the XT.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Against an auto SP23 you are likely to put them back in their place but against a manual it would be very interesting.

What would be a real test is to put 4 other people in each car as that will be a real test as extra people in a Falcon makes a much smaller difference.

7.4 is pretty quick for the little Mazda and puts my Fairmonts 8.1 to shame but truth be told racing up mountains the Fairmont I daresay would beat the Mazda.

Both modified with the same budget the Mazda wouldn't stand a chance, simple mechanics as a larger capacity engine will produce more power cheaper.

You'd probably lose an up-mountain race and a dollar per dollar modification battle. The 2.3 Duratec is one of the most formidable four-cylinder engines in the world and the whole thing is far superior and more advanced in design to the Aussie six.

Now if your Fairmont is an 8... that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Steffo

You'd probably lose an up-mountain race and a dollar per dollar modification battle. The 2.3 Duratec is one of the most formidable four-cylinder engines in the world and the whole thing is far superior and more advanced in design to the Aussie six.

Now if your Fairmont is an 8... that's a whole different kettle of fish.

I highly doubt that the Aussie 4L six would lose to the Duratec engine in a dollar per dollar modification (I did imply the Barra 190 but I believe my Tickford VCT would have a fair chance).
There are many papers on the subject and it simply comes down to the age old saying
that "there aint no replacement for displacement" simplya 15% increase (exhaust) to the SP23 is going to equal an increase of 17kw while an increase by 15% to my Fairmont is going to equal 25kw.
If you graph modifications on top of each other with the Fairmont against the Mazda you will find that the horsepower will increase sharper in the Fairmont as it is coming off a stronger base torque wise.
Sorry if I'm not being clearer but it is difficult to explain. If you give me 10 grand and a SP23 I will explain

Also while the Mazda has a strong raw acceleration figure this does not tell the whole story. From my own experience my Fairmont beat a TX3 Turbo in an uphill race . My theory is that since the Fairmont had a shorter and meatier torque curve it could roll on the power better coming out of slow corners...or maybe the TX3 was cactus.......either way the Fairmont felt fitter.

Not bagging SP23's either I am a big fan of them and wouldn't mind adding one to my garage.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I highly doubt that the Aussie 4L six would lose to the Duratec engine in a dollar per dollar modification (I did imply the Barra 190 but I believe my Tickford VCT would have a fair chance).
There are many papers on the subject and it simply comes down to the age old saying
that "there aint no replacement for displacement" simplya 15% increase (exhaust) to the SP23 is going to equal an increase of 17kw while an increase by 15% to my Fairmont is going to equal 25kw.
If you graph modifications on top of each other with the Fairmont against the Mazda you will find that the horsepower will increase sharper in the Fairmont as it is coming off a stronger base torque wise.
Sorry if I'm not being clearer but it is difficult to explain. If you give me 10 grand and a SP23 I will explain

Also while the Mazda has a strong raw acceleration figure this does not tell the whole story. From my own experience my Fairmont beat a TX3 Turbo in an uphill race . My theory is that since the Fairmont had a shorter and meatier torque curve it could roll on the power better coming out of slow corners...or maybe the TX3 was cactus.......either way the Fairmont felt fitter.

Not bagging SP23's either I am a big fan of them and wouldn't mind adding one to my garage.

Lots of displacement is great and all... except if you have stone age technology behind it. The Duratec's cylinder head mops the floor with pretty much any regular production engine until you get into the big dollar exotics. The Aussie six's... doesn't?

Stock on stock an AU Ghia with the VCT engine mops the floor with TX3 Turbo's. That's an early 90s/late 80s turbo 4-cyl that once made just over 100kW and today wouldn't anymore (age plus owner demographic who... don't take the best care) against a new, late model car.

[sleekism]

Righto but don't discount that the TX3 only weighed 1000 kilos giving 10kg/kw while the SP23 had a similar 10.4kg/kw.

The TX3 is a very fun drive bet your right I won't know until I try.
But on a similar note I have cleaned up a Corolla Sports model and Camry Sportivo but knowing Toyota they probably weren't REALLY sporty.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Righto but don't discount that the TX3 only weighed 1000 kilos giving 10kg/kw while the SP23 had a similar 10.4kg/kw.

The TX3 is a very fun drive bet your right I won't know until I try.
But on a similar note I have cleaned up a Corolla Sports model and Camry Sportivo but knowing Toyota they probably weren't REALLY sporty.

The current shape Camry Sportivo has a 117kW 2.4L 4cyl like the rest of the range - its just a bodykit.

The old shape had the 112kW 2.4L 4cyl or 141kW 3.0L V6 - again, just a bodykit.

The Corolla "Sports," had the same 100kW 1.8L 4-cyl as every other regular Corolla. If its a Sportivo, however, it shares the 141kW 181Nm 4-cyl 1.8L engine with the Celica and Lotus Elise/Exige. That one would hose a 6cyl AU Ghia. The normal "Sports," one can't get out of its own way.

[Creampuff]

The result is in...0 -120 k's ..XR6 won easily by 3 car lengths...case closed!
Thank you for all your opinions.

[sleekism]

I hope you had money riding on it or at least got a beer out of it........

[merlin]

There is no way in hell an auto SP23 will run those times people have been throwing around...its lucky to run a 16.

This thread made me lol. Thank you.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by merlin

There is no way in hell an auto SP23 will run those times people have been throwing around...its lucky to run a 16.

This thread made me lol. Thank you.

100% Agreed. An auto SP23 running a 15 second 1/4 mile? lmao...

[VippiN]

I don't think the SP23's are really fast at all. My Laser is just a tad slower than a SP20 Astina.. and my Laser isn't all that fast.

[sleekism]

It's because small cars FEEEELLLL fast.

I remember being in a mated Daihatsu Charade and going wow this thing is flying and then looking at the speedo and seeing it's only doing 50 kays.

The Daihatsu felt at 50 kays what my Fairmont feels at 150 kays.

I used to think my KF Laser was super quick (didnt help that it blew off Commodores) and then I stopwatched and it struggled do do sub 10 seconds to 100 kays.

Bloody Ricers