Re-Driven's Used Territory homage

[Sprintey]

And now for some more auto nostalgia

A long time has now passed since the Territory ceased in 2016, how have they held up, and how do people regard them?

Here's Re-Driven's buyers guide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJdj2Pt7cc4

I was expecting it to get panned and to be fair they mention the suspension maintenance, but his being so impressed while driving, and the space/practicality comments are backed by heaps of satisfied new and used owners in the comments.

[Franco Cozzo]

I suggest SZ/SZII Territory for everyone looking for a used car in the sub $20K price bracket, but the Barra one rather than the diesel, because they're cheaper to buy and simpler/cheaper to maintain.

Can't go wrong, its a bit thirsty but its cheap to fix when it flogs out, everyones worked on one before so there's no skills issue with automotive workshops, all the parts resellers carry stock of their service items on hand and its nice to drive.

I hate SUVs but If I had to have one it'd be a Territory.

Well it'd actually be a GMT400 'Holden' Suburban but they're drug money and filling a 159L fuel tank in 2024 would be like jamming a pinecone up my *** sideways.

[fatgas]

Not sure the Territory has aged as well as Falcon, despite sharing the same powertrain.

[MITCHAY]

Well in the last two weeks including today seen at least two driven like lunatics courtesy of the mighty Barra. Say what you want about Aussie cars but none of them come close unless you are getting into Euro $$$. If I were in the market I would be interested

Ah in another world the Terry and some equivalent Holden are holding down the volume so then could still have Falcons and Commodores. But not to be.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

And now for some more auto nostalgia

A long time has now passed since the Territory ceased in 2016, how have they held up, and how do people regard them?

I had two Territory on company user-chooses vehicles. An SY AWD and an SZ RWD diesel. Despite issues with the front ball joints, I think that the SY AWD was the nicer car to drive. I was not a fan of the move from hydraulic steering to EPAS, which was a backward step for driver engagement and feel. As for the engines, there was a lot of clamour at the time for the diesel for towing duties. But, I could never see the financial payback given the longer term cost and complexity. (My fleet manager made me get the diesel to meet company green policy.) I disliked the engine. Especially the turbo lag from a dead stop. I think the pick of the litter is the SY Series II AWD.

But, to be honest, when it came time to buy one for myself, I got a CX-5 instead. I was looking for a new car at the end of 2017 and chased around to find one of the last remaining 'new' Territory still in stock. It was petrol RWD. I took it for a drive and felt there was something funny/different about the steering from memory - but I couldn't pick out exactly what (different tyres, wheel alignment out, shrug). I also had a peek under the rear door seal, and there were tiny spots of rust under the door seal on a 'new' car that had been sitting in the yard for 12 months. Sigh, that killed it. For around the same price, I could get a CX-5 AWD Maxx 2.5L with dealer fitted mags and navigation. More safety kit on the CX-5 and it was far easier for the Missus to drive. Looking at the two cars from 2016, one would have to say that the CX-5 has held up far better than the Territory every would.

Occasionally, I get the itch to hunt down a Territory SY Series II Turbo AWD. And spend some money on getting the consumables (bushings, etc) back to spec. Series II Turbos are as rare as rocking horse droppings these days. And then I wake up and stop day dreaming.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by whynot

I had two Territory on company user-chooses vehicles. An SY AWD and an SZ RWD diesel. Despite issues with the front ball joints, I think that the SY AWD was the nicer car to drive. I was not a fan of the move from hydraulic steering to EPAS, which was a backward step for driver engagement and feel. As for the engines, there was a lot of clamour at the time for the diesel for towing duties. But, I could never see the financial payback given the longer term cost and complexity. (My fleet manager made me get the diesel to meet company green policy.) I disliked the engine. Especially the turbo lag from a dead stop. I think the pick of the litter is the SY Series II AWD.

But, to be honest, when it came time to buy one for myself, I got a CX-5 instead. I was looking for a new car at the end of 2017 and chased around to find one of the last remaining 'new' Territory still in stock. It was petrol RWD. I took it for a drive and felt there was something funny/different about the steering from memory - but I couldn't pick out exactly what (different tyres, wheel alignment out, shrug). I also had a peek under the rear door seal, and there were tiny spots of rust under the door seal on a 'new' car that had been sitting in the yard for 12 months. Sigh, that killed it. For around the same price, I could get a CX-5 AWD Maxx 2.5L with dealer fitted mags and navigation. More safety kit on the CX-5 and it was far easier for the Missus to drive. Looking at the two cars from 2016, one would have to say that the CX-5 has held up far better than the Territory every would.

Occasionally, I get the itch to hunt down a Territory SY Series II Turbo AWD. And spend some money on getting the consumables (bushings, etc) back to spec. Series II Turbos are as rare as rocking horse droppings these days. And then I wake up and stop day dreaming.

Lol at company green policy, make you buy the car that's worse for human health with worse NOx emissions/particulate matter that harms humans.

What you experienced there isn't turbo lag, it's the way Ford did the calibration on the throttle mapping and how the throttle pedal responds to your inputs, it completely disappears when you get the car tuned. It feels like turbo lag but the car is just ignoring your throttle inputs so you go harder on the pedal then suddenly it takes off like a rocket half a second AFTER you wanted it to move. It'll present itself at busy roundabouts of course

The throttle mapping on the diesel Territory is a complete joke, it's the same as some of their Euro hatches where they limit how much torque you can have in the first three gears in the manual cars to protect the gearbox.

[roKWiz]

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers and sold them.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers and sold them.

Its an SUV that can be AWD with a 4L 195KW engine, did they think they were going to use 6L/100km?

15-20L/100km the moment you hit traffic lights and drive it through suburbia getting it stopped and moving every 20 meters.

They do into the 10s on the highway, they're not that bad when you have them on the open road.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its an SUV that can be AWD with a 4L 195KW engine, did they think they were going to use 6L/100km?

15-20L/100km the moment you hit traffic lights and drive it through suburbia getting it stopped and moving every 20 meters.

They do into the 10s on the highway, they're not that bad when you have them on the open road.

All the people I knew with them were either farmers or from country towns so did lots of hwy miles in them.

[fatgas]

SY had the 182kW Barra, an engine not known for its frugal nature. The BF revision is much better on fuel, especially with the ZF behind it.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers and sold them.

Yup, easily 20l/100km (per tank) in stop-start traffic. That was with the petrol six-speed ZF. The Fleet Manager hated me.

But on the highway, fully loaded with kids and excess junk only female daughters will pack, SY petrol generally did around 10/100km.

The SZ diesel was in the general range of 7-8l/100km on the highway and around 11/100km around town, with one highway trip getting as low as 6.9l/100km.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by whynot

I had two Territory on company user-chooses vehicles. An SY AWD and an SZ RWD diesel. Despite issues with the front ball joints, I think that the SY AWD was the nicer car to drive. I was not a fan of the move from hydraulic steering to EPAS, which was a backward step for driver engagement and feel. As for the engines, there was a lot of clamour at the time for the diesel for towing duties. But, I could never see the financial payback given the longer term cost and complexity. (My fleet manager made me get the diesel to meet company green policy.) I disliked the engine. Especially the turbo lag from a dead stop. I think the pick of the litter is the SY Series II AWD.

But, to be honest, when it came time to buy one for myself, I got a CX-5 instead. I was looking for a new car at the end of 2017 and chased around to find one of the last remaining 'new' Territory still in stock. It was petrol RWD. I took it for a drive and felt there was something funny/different about the steering from memory - but I couldn't pick out exactly what (different tyres, wheel alignment out, shrug). I also had a peek under the rear door seal, and there were tiny spots of rust under the door seal on a 'new' car that had been sitting in the yard for 12 months. Sigh, that killed it. For around the same price, I could get a CX-5 AWD Maxx 2.5L with dealer fitted mags and navigation. More safety kit on the CX-5 and it was far easier for the Missus to drive. Looking at the two cars from 2016, one would have to say that the CX-5 has held up far better than the Territory every would.

Occasionally, I get the itch to hunt down a Territory SY Series II Turbo AWD. And spend some money on getting the consumables (bushings, etc) back to spec. Series II Turbos are as rare as rocking horse droppings these days. And then I wake up and stop day dreaming.

Tend to agree that SYII is the pick. Interesting the comments on the EPAS steering, and on the CX5 which is still available in the same generation body plan. Company green policy with diesel that kills humans may be exactly what green policy aims might strive towards... (sinister music).

Excitedly booked test drive of new diesel AWD in 2011 (or early 2012) and left the test drive deciding to keep AWD SY, really didn't like the diesel and the lag on takeoff.

If there's one thing I can suggest from long, long term ownership it's 'don't change the rubber supension bushings for the hard nolathane ones'. It gives the car a different drive and it's not as nice. Even if you have to replace the rubber ones again, just do that, the car is much better with new rubber bushings. Have also been advised the harder bushings transmit shocks which may affect parts like the transmission, this was suprising but the source knew what he was talking about.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Tend to agree that SYII is the pick. Interesting the comments on the EPAS steering, and on the CX5 which is still available in the same generation body plan. Company green policy with diesel that kills humans may be exactly what green policy aims might strive towards... (sinister music).

Excitedly booked test drive of new diesel AWD in 2011 (or early 2012) and left the test drive deciding to keep AWD SY, really didn't like the diesel and the lag on takeoff.

If there's one thing I can suggest from long, long term ownership it's 'don't change the rubber supension bushings for the hard nolathane ones'. It gives the car a different drive and it's not as nice. Even if you have to replace the rubber ones again, just do that, the car is much better with new rubber bushings. Have also been advised the harder bushings transmit shocks which may affect parts like the transmission, this was suprising but the source knew what he was talking about.

When you stiffen up the bushes, what you gain in durability of the bushes and a car that handles a little bit nicer, you lose in an increase in NVH and increase load on other components in the driveline.

I think the blue superpro brand ones are a good middle between rubber and the nolothane/pedders urethane jobs.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Tend to agree that SYII is the pick. Interesting the comments on the EPAS steering, and on the CX5 which is still available in the same generation body plan. Company green policy with diesel that kills humans may be exactly what green policy aims might strive towards... (sinister music).

Excitedly booked test drive of new diesel AWD in 2011 (or early 2012) and left the test drive deciding to keep AWD SY, really didn't like the diesel and the lag on takeoff.

If there's one thing I can suggest from long, long term ownership it's 'don't change the rubber supension bushings for the hard nolathane ones'. It gives the car a different drive and it's not as nice. Even if you have to replace the rubber ones again, just do that, the car is much better with new rubber bushings. Have also been advised the harder bushings transmit shocks which may affect parts like the transmission, this was suprising but the source knew what he was talking about.

Agree regarding the bushings...brand new rubber is the way to go. Same with the Control Blade on Falcon sedan. I made the Nolathane mistake on the front suspension on my ute, still deciding if it's worth the cost to switch back to new rubber.

As for diesel vs Barra, might as well turn the national pride up to 11 because the Barra might be thirstier but it's a better drive and it's pennies to maintain and repair.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

I made the Nolathane mistake on the front suspension on my ute, still deciding if it's worth the cost to switch back to new rubber.

Couldn't agree more, I told the guy in the shop when I had my FG done to use rubber, on pickup it had Nolathane, some story about how he couldn't get rubber. Horrible ride, the rear is just about due so when it goes in for that I'll have the front done again

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Couldn't agree more, I told the guy in the shop when I had my FG done to use rubber, on pickup it had Nolathane, some story about how he couldn't get rubber. Horrible ride, the rear is just about due so when it goes in for that I'll have the front done again

Standard workshop affair - we'll do it right the second time

I've got a full cars worth of urethane bushes on the Caprice, as in every bush in the suspension and steering system.

It's not too bad, until you drive on a dirt road then it feels like the whole car is about to rattle apart and I'll be floating in my seat holding the steering wheel is all that'll be left

Or just could be because it's a Holden

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

As for diesel vs Barra, might as well turn the national pride up to 11 because the Barra might be thirstier but it's a better drive and it's pennies to maintain and repair.

I looked at buying one for my sister this time last year and considered the diesel, but the invoices in the diesels I looked at were eye watering. It is no wonder (from my observation) the Territory is one of a few vehicles where the diesel actually has worse resale than the petrol.
So thought will try a RWD petrol in Titanium spec, looked at a handful and they all had rust either well underway or developing under the 3rd row seat and tailgate latch areas. Gave it a miss.
And that’s probably why the equivalent spec Toyota Highlander commands another $10-15k asking price.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Standard workshop affair - we'll do it right the second time

I've got a full cars worth of urethane bushes on the Caprice, as in every bush in the suspension and steering system.

It's not too bad, until you drive on a dirt road then it feels like the whole car is about to rattle apart and I'll be floating in my seat holding the steering wheel is all that'll be left

Or just could be because it's a Holden

I've got rural roads on the way, then a long dirt driveway at work to contend with every day, it shits me to tears. Yep it'll be done right the second time

[jgmdat]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers and sold them.

Years ago I was given a Turbo Territory when the ute was getting serviced, trip computer showed average speed was 70km/hr fuel was 15litres per 100.

In comparison my XR8 ute was around 11's with average speed 50.

[BENT_8]

We recently bought an SZ RWD 4.0L to replace the Wifes Outlander that proved to be a lemon. We live on the fringes of suburbia and she works less than 5 minutes from home so we dont really notice the cost of running it in stop start traffic but we're currently away in Barmera for the week and used the SZ to tow our Waverunner.
I asked her how it went and compares to the Outlander.
The response, she loves it, felt solid on the road and didnt notice the ski behind her.

[MustangNicko]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Couldn't agree more, I told the guy in the shop when I had my FG done to use rubber, on pickup it had Nolathane, some story about how he couldn't get rubber. Horrible ride, the rear is just about due so when it goes in for that I'll have the front done again

I did the whole front and rear end in my FGII XR6 T ute with Superpro and it was an incredible transformation. Felt tight, firm and responsive but still had a little give in it. Worth looking into imo.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers and sold them.

Statement should be

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers either sold them or converted to run gas.

[HIPO]

More realistic expectations from my 2013 Barra Territory & consumption.... was & is 1lt per 100 better than expected for our use. Both of us still happy with it, after the 115,000ks we've done, on top of the 50k already on it when bought.
From research before purchase, we knew if kept it we'd be up for bushings etc & that time is near.
Replace it with what? & for how much? thinking we'll keep it!

[fordomatic]

Been a massive love hate relationship for me with my 2010 SYII Ghia AWD Territory over the last 23 months.

They have a bad name for a reason but a lot of people stick up for them. I'll caveat this with the fact that I truly love my Territory, it is the best SUV I've driven. It's just so comfortable and is effortless on the highway. I worked out that with the petrol I spend around $400 extra on fuel a year vs the diesel. But the Barra is much nicer to drive, has zero reliability issues and I can service and replace things myself, petrol is almost always 40cents more where I fill up.

Now, my Terri has 150,000km now, it had 100,000km when I got it. Here is a list of what i've replaced in 50,000km. Not all the bushes were stuffed when I replaced though. All these things can be seen as maintenance issues.

Replaced all bushes, replaced shocks, replaced springs, new alternator, new power steering pump, new starter motor, new fuel pump, new tail gate hinges, new sway bar links, electrical gremlin that was the battery, drivers actuator, oil pressure sensor, New brakes all round, transmission selector cable, gear box mount, has broken down 3 times (two of them were the battery, other was power steering), I've definitely forgot some things.

I've got mates who have had Terri's and all these things are common, you only have to look at the Terri facebook page to see.

Know what I replaced on my ZH Outlander in 200,000km? Rear shocks, brakes and a clock spring, that's it. That car is at 310,000km now and still going strong, even the CVT is alive. It was a piece of crap to drive though. Still prefer the Terri, at the moment, because it's working.

Oh, fuel consumption, but I dont care.
Average speed 40km/h, 13.1 l/100km
Average speed 98km/h 9.2l/100km

There is absolutely nothing on the market sub 15k that will beat a Terri. I'll be getting a Prado next and this was an interim for that, but I won't be getting change out of 50k for a car that is no where near worth 35k over the Terri.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

We recently bought an SZ RWD 4.0L to replace the Wifes Outlander that proved to be a lemon. We live on the fringes of suburbia and she works less than 5 minutes from home so we dont really notice the cost of running it in stop start traffic but we're currently away in Barmera for the week and used the SZ to tow our Waverunner.
I asked her how it went and compares to the Outlander.
The response, she loves it, felt solid on the road and didnt notice the ski behind her.

Agree on the towing, we used ours to tow a 1600kg van around Australia with the kids, it was like the van wasn't there. On the climbs around Cradle Mountain it was able to accelerate well with van in tow, which was great! Our former HJ60 was so sluggish towing that it strained the theory of relativity and time seemed itself to slow.

fwiw, the HJ60 diesel was 10.5hwy and 12.5 towing for us.
The Territory petrol was 10.5 highway and about 13.5 towing.
We were able to match the factory 11.2 combined when new (live out of town so a bit of highway in most trips). These days, lots of short runs to local shops, it's about 14.5, still does 10s on the highway.

Edit: Apart from getting all the bushes done, our motor is still unopened, all anciliaries still in place (though ac unit has started clunk intermittently on engagement). New transmission last year at 323,000 on original ZF. One more thing - replace the ZF fluid every 70,000 or so, some say less. We replaced the tyres every 80,000. Rust has got it, being a coastal car but I'm not too worried by that at present. About 340,000 now and still so solid on the highway and gravel and snow with the AWD.

And that's the part that's so damn hard to replace these days, a decent full-time-all-the-time AWD system (no declutching!) in a SUV that handles well.

[Franco Cozzo]

Problem with owning a Territory is there's just nothing on the market under 6 figures you can replace it with that's not taking a step backwards in power, torque and driving experience.

Even with how sketchy they can be with faults, you'll never get your Territory stuck on the hoist for three weeks waiting for parts to come from Europe.

What's a new BMW X5 cost these days?

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by fatgas

SY had the 182kW Barra, an engine not known for its frugal nature. The BF revision is much better on fuel, especially with the ZF behind it.

SX had the 182kw. SY had the 190 kw.

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Every owner I knew with a petrol Territory said they were gas guzzlers and sold them.

Not me, still have 2 of them. Including a turbo, love them.

[Sprintey]

And me! Still love it.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Even with how sketchy they can be with faults, you'll never get your Territory stuck on the hoist for three weeks waiting for parts to come from Europe.

$185 delivered for a new genuine alternator, today. Try getting a Denso unit for the J150 Prado at similar rates. Or find a VAG alternator that survives a PAS leak and eventually dies of too-short brushes at 385K.