How generous are Australian working conditions

[buggerlugs]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...-1226819717845
Spoke to one of my suppliers who has set up a second business in LA in the good old US of A over the last 2 years. He said the minimum wage over there is $7.70 per hour . There is no sick leave, holiday pay, leave loading, super. He said the cost of living is so much cheaper thou and it is much much easier to do business with government welcoming new business with open arms and bugger all red tape........He never thought he'd say it, but he doesn't want to come back here..........

[buggerlugs]

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au...onger/2161932/
Lots of different views..........

[Outbackjack]

Even with all those mega American Corporations there are still people working full time around 50 weeks a year and living in poverty. If you ever visit the US and travel around a bit you will be amazed by the number of 80 year old waitress's working in road side stops etc. Sure the companies love paying a pittance and could not give a tinkers kuss about the human cost of the pathetically low wages and conditions. What was that famous quote from Mr Burns ... "Wheel in another drone and send the widow a ham"

Is this how we want Australia to go??

[jpblue1000]

part of why we have such a great standard of living is we look/have looked after ourselves, good awards, good welfare and good conditions, pay, holidays, super etc.
But times have generally been good for some time and it shows. Now things turn for the worse its going to be a struggle to maintain those very standards which might make it harder to keep them. we only keep the good wicket while we have a job, once redundant or the company closes down there is rarely an upwards move job wise. Its usually a matter of whatever you can get. the new lower wages etc becomes the new normal and we start to build it up again over the next 1-2 decades.
Ive traveled a fair bit and lived OS for best part of a decade and can say Australia is the lucky country, not so smart but lucky.

JP

[jpblue1000]

The most important graph in the links you posted up is purchasing power parity (PPP). and we are mid field in that despite the highest monetary award rates. Its expensive to live here and our wages show.

JP

[Madaya]

To right JP.

[GREGL]

$7.70 per hour wouldn't be bad if a beer was 70 cents , a packet of smokes $7.70 , a NEW car cost $7700 and a house around $70,000 . While we are talking about that magic figure the '70's weren't bad either , At least I was young back then.

[sico]

Well I think it's already happening..
In the past I've worked night shift and received 30% loading.
Where I work now, no such thing.
Holiday leave loading the same, once upon a time...

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

[ILLaViTaR]

No different than here but we get $10 an hour instead of $7.70. Still slave labour, Talking from personal experience I don't work in those environments anymore specifically because of the low wage/high work expectations and I can't see how anyone in America could bother to get up in the morning and put themselves through such a stupid autocratic environment that is hospitality. You can't get a breath in without having some crap stressful task thrown upon you with hustling abuse, literally not even a second to think. Watching your boss do the same skill of work as you and to no where near the extent whilst earning 10 times what you do. Great industry, the buck along with all the other crap is passed onto the overworked underpaid casual worker.

It's an industry full of academic failures that need to feel some form of accomplishment in their life so these people naturally end up as middle aged assistant managers who take too much pride in the title of such a contemptible position. It laughably gives them the egotistical need to abuse the only other known lower hierarchy in existence other than themselves (aka the casually employed teenage kitchenhand). Those underpaid casuals always bear the burden of everything in that industry.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

No different than here but we get $10 an hour instead of $7.70. Still slave labour, Talking from personal experience I don't work in those environments anymore specifically because of the low wage/high work expectations and I can't see how anyone in America could bother to get up in the morning and put themselves through such a stupid autocratic environment that is hospitality. You can't get a breath in without having some crap stressful task thrown upon you with hustling abuse, literally not even a second to think. Watching your boss do the same skill of work as you and to no where near the extent whilst earning 10 times what you do. Great industry, the buck along with all the other crap is passed onto the overworked underpaid casual worker.

It's an industry full of academic failures that need to feel some form of accomplishment in their life so these people naturally end up as middle aged assistant managers who take too much pride in the title of such a contemptible position. It laughably gives them the egotistical need to abuse the only other known lower hierarchy in existence other than themselves (aka the casually employed teenage kitchenhand). Those underpaid casuals always bear the burden of everything in that industry.

So you no longer work for Maccas ?

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

The most important graph in the links you posted up is purchasing power parity (PPP). and we are mid field in that despite the highest monetary award rates. Its expensive to live here and our wages show.

JP

Really!? You don't think the graph being in US dollars skews the result?
Exchange rate in 2004 $1 US dollar buys 1.43 AUS .Exchange rate 2013 $1 US dollar buys 0.95c AUS?

You don't think most OECD countries in Europe adopting the same currency in 1999 might skew the result?


Lies, dam lies and statistics

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Really!? You don't think the graph being in US dollars skews the result?
Exchange rate in 2004 $1 US dollar buys 1.43 AUS .Exchange rate 2013 $1 US dollar buys 0.95c AUS?

You don't think most OECD countries in Europe adopting the same currency in 1999 might skew the result?


Lies, dam lies and statistics

What are you talking about? the graph is about purchasing parity nothing to do with exchange rates. Nothing...the article actually states that, converting each currency into USD at any given time for convenience against the same benchmark. And has nothing to do with 1999 and the euro, of which most listed countries don't use it only 3 do.
Think of it as the big mac index!

JP

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Even with all those mega American Corporations there are still people working full time around 50 weeks a year and living in poverty. If you ever visit the US and travel around a bit you will be amazed by the number of 80 year old waitress's working in road side stops etc. Sure the companies love paying a pittance and could not give a tinkers kuss about the human cost of the pathetically low wages and conditions. What was that famous quote from Mr Burns ... "Wheel in another drone and send the widow a ham"

Is this how we want Australia to go??

Walmart and Macca's really do care about their employee drudgeons making ends meet on the tiny minimum wage...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-1...lution/5151504

Originally Posted by The Drum

Last month, a Walmart store in Ohio issued a Thanksgiving fundraising drive, urging employees to "collect canned foods for fellow Walmart employees in need." (Emphasis original).

Walmart, which was recently named America's worst-paying employer, has attempted to pass this insult off as a heart-warming example of its employees caring for one another. Which is one way of deflecting attention from the cause of those employees' lesser fortunes - Walmart's loving embrace of the $7.25 federal minimum wage.

Walmart is not alone in its sorry/not sorry approach to the fact that many of its workers live below the poverty line.

Fast-food behemoth McDonald's attracted equal amounts disbelief and scorn in its recent attempt to dispense money-saving advice to its workforce. Employees were helpfully told they could make ends meet by getting a second job, not paying for heating, and applying for food stamps. Most gratingly, McDonald's cheerfully suggested workers could simply "sing away stress" because singing lowers blood pressure.

Unfazed by the public ridicule, McDonald's continued with its self-defeating advice in the form of "McResource Line", a website which includes Christmas-themed money-saving doozies such as "breaking food into pieces often results in eating less and still feeling full" and suggesting employees sell unwanted gifts on eBay for some "quick cash".

[cheap]

Some working conditions are very generous, where remuneration seems to be disproportionately high to the skills required.

I have also worked on many projects and managed many budgets, the only thing that is common are the blatant rip-offs tried by companies upon other companies. If you're not up to the task of challenging every charge (or have someone in your company in cahoots) then your company is doomed.

Of course having someone arbitrarily setting a minimum wage doesn't help you either. Public holidays and minimum wage (double time and a half equates) to at least $40/hour. Multiply this by 3-4 staff and it is no wonder many small shops stay closed or charge outrageous prices for their product. And don't get me started on all the red/green/pink tape that each successive government thinks is their god given right to inflict upon business.

[nstg8a]

One of the reasons us kiwis come here is the better working conditions.
In nz the employment contracts act circa 1992 effectively killed the unions and removed penalty rates in one swift movement.
Being paid anything other than normal time is pretty rare in nz these days. Of course still have holidays, sick leave etc, if your permanent.
Many however are basically casual, on month to month contracts.
I see australia going down this path too im afraid.
My job now is salaried, so no difference if I work my supposed hours (6am-3pm) or if like recently while my boss was on holiday I was doing 11-12hour days.

Got nearly two months worth of leave accrued which I cant take because its never 'a good time' lol

[BHDOGS]

Yup like it or not the class war is coming and like always it will be the unskilled poor people that shoulder the burden as has been said here already the amount of effort it requires to work a job matters little to how much you actually get paid. Coming from the security industry nobody i know is employed on full time pay its all permanent part time or casual in other words a scam to get out of paying you proper conditions. The base award is 18 dollars an hour for part time employees these same people are then employed to guard your airports, your hospitals ,your military bases, restrain mentally sick people, patrol your businesses, your schools, the shopping centres the corporations deal with aggressive,drunk drug affected individuals so you dont have to on your nights out in the city and yes on saturdays they get time and ahalf or 30 bucks an hour and sundays they get double pay the princely sum of 40 dollars an hour on a sunday two days of actually good ******* wages and the government wants to strip that away because business are bitching it costs to much. Then replace all those good people who do it for the money with just anybody they can get to wear a uniform for 20 bucks an hour on a sunday night do you think there gonna give a **** to take a knife instead of you or a punch to the face to save your **** for 20 bucks an hour good ******* luck tony abbot

[Madaya]

I clicked 'Thanks' to BHDOGS, but it is more like 'Agree'. Take my daughter's case. Store in a mall, has to sell so much to be viable. XMAS was great, but for the rest of the year, slow, so hours are less.
Have dropped by the store several times, never met the BOSS. This person had a hand full of cash or credit, bought a franchise and headed for the beach.
Meanwhile, staff are given less hours and etc.
Which is a darn shame. A bit of personal on the floor stuff would reveal who works best, who not only sell's product, but brings back customers.
Good on entrepreneurs for dropping in money for a franchise, but a bit of shop floor work floats the boat.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by GREGL

So you no longer work for Maccas ?

No I want to be a teenager forever. How very asinine of you. I was describing my actual past experiences because the hospitality industry is anything but generous. Maybe compared to hospitality in America like that means anything.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

What are you talking about? the graph is about purchasing parity nothing to do with exchange rates.

Sorry, I was refering to the other graph in the article, minimum wage. I imagine that was your source for claiming we have the "...highest monetary award rates".

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Nothing...the article actually states that, converting each currency into USD at any given time for convenience against the same benchmark. And has nothing to do with 1999 and the euro, of which most listed countries don't use it only 3 do.
Think of it as the big mac index!

JP

Yes, I understand the concept of the PPP. It is not designed to be compared with a graph of minimum wages in US dollars.

Comparing apples and oranges.

[TheSneakiness]

In some fields I would say its more than generous for the actual work done. See the Toyota thread in the Pub.

Being in support behind people who make the big bucks in business it's OK and I use OK loosely but alot of workers are there cause they need the money and put up with the garbage thrown down from high above.

See if we then start complaining loudly like the unions do then its easy especially for my company to say well you are now redundant and your jobs have been shipped off to Mumbai or Bangalore.

[Franco Cozzo]

The conditions are mostly what makes this country great, if we lose those, I guess we aren't so much the "lucky country" anymore, are we?

Was discussing this in a pub at around 11PM at night once after everyone was blind and we come to the conclusion if everything turns to **** and lots of people are out of work, or are struggling to pay bills because of minimum wage reductions and loss of penalty rates, you'll find that the crime rate will skyrocket, it won't just be junkies breaking into your home to get cash for a fix.

[jpblue1000]

There is enough wealth in this Lucky country for everyone. It is just poorly distributed. Controlled by those who have an interest in maintaining the status quo or improving their bottom line. This means changing conditions, benefits, awards industrial relations and social benefits.

I’m not talking the local cafe owner, 5 staff accountant firm director or local council member. It’s the top 1% who want a return to the industrial revolution. the small business owner is on board because it helps them and I dare say they dream of 'making it' But the truth surely is social mobility is a middle class aspiration. Nobody works hard and finds themselves in the 1%

I hope BHDOGS is right and a class war is imminent. But I think Australians are too soft and stupid to fight the true inequity of our society.
Even the French peasants managed and maintained it for over 200 years
Liberté, égalité, fraternité!

[XBROO]

Yep it's slowly but surely happening in Australia, with big companies. They are only starting to employ non-Australians slowly weeding out Aussie workers. Sure at the moment these non-Australians are on the same money. But when all the Australian our weeded out, then that's when the big companies will take advantage of the 3rd world employees.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

One of the reasons us kiwis come here is the better working conditions.
In nz the employment contracts act circa 1992 effectively killed the unions and removed penalty rates in one swift movement.
Being paid anything other than normal time is pretty rare in nz these days. Of course still have holidays, sick leave etc, if your permanent.
Many however are basically casual, on month to month contracts.
I see australia going down this path too im afraid.
My job now is salaried, so no difference if I work my supposed hours (6am-3pm) or if like recently while my boss was on holiday I was doing 11-12hour days.

Got nearly two months worth of leave accrued which I cant take because its never 'a good time' lol

Hmm

http://www.theland.com.au/news/agric...px?storypage=0

ROSTERED days off – a day off in exchange for a little extra time worked each day over a fortnight or a month – are a rarity in New Zealand, where much Australian food processing has fled to escape soaring local costs over the past decade.

McCain Foods doesn't have them at its potato chip manufacturing plant in Hastings, New Zealand, where it moved production from Tasmania in 2010, and where employees work a 40-hour week rather than 38 hours standard in Australia.

"They don't have any RDOs. There's no penalties, no shift loading or anything like that," a spokesman for the Melbourne-based company said .

That's a sharp contrast to Australia, where RDOs have been baked into manufacturing and construction enterprise agreements since the advent of the 38-hour week, and which played havoc with shifts in 24-hour plants by reducing the working day to less than eight hours.

SPC Ardmona, the Shepparton-based fruit cannery that is under a cloud after parent Coca-Cola Amatil failed to secure a government handout for an upgrade, has 13 RDOs a year in its enterprise agreement, including one after Cup Day to make a five day weekend.

The company says these are brought forward from peak fruit production periods and the five day shutdown allows for maintenance to be carried out, The Australian Financial Review reports.

Terry O'Brien, managing director of Simplot Australia, the maker of Edgell, Leggo's and John West products, said some companies such as SPC Ardmona can do this. But Mr O'Brien said RDOs could still be troublesome in several ways.

If the plant is shut and everyone takes their RDO on the same day, the day's production is lost.

If workers take their RDOs on different days production can be continued with casual labour, but only if the enterprise deal permits.

"We have one plant where we don't have that flexibility but are trying to gain it," Mr O'Brien said.

If demand is such that the company has no choice but to produce on a scheduled RDO, and can't get workers to agree to roll it forward, "we have to pay overtime rates for what is really normal hours production", he said.

"It's not as big a thing as some would suggest but clearly it is just another thing we have to manage when our market demand moves around and when climate dictates changed production plans."

Geoff Allen, the founding chief executive of the Business Council of Australia, said RDOs and penalty rates were set in place long ago "in an artificially protected [business] environment" and "locked in by a centralised system and unions seeking to consolidate their members".

"But the world has changed. And while business doesn't seek to diminish the workers' experience or rewards, a big issue still remains in the flexible allocation of tasks to people."

PPB Advisory partner Stephen Longley said RDOs had been around for so long they were accepted by many businesses, but could raise productivity issues and would now be very hard to remove.

"If you take them out of the system we either have to change national employment standards to a 40-hour week or people have to be paid overtime," he said.

Mr Longley said Australian manufacturers of low-value-added goods were in trouble because "of our cost structure. and one of those costs is our wage rates".

But in SPC Ardmona's case, high costs were compounded by an ageing, inefficient plant employing too many people and a belated move into new, packaged fresh fruit products that today's consumers want to buy.

The company blamed cheap imports for its woes, and sought the handout to convert its cannery into a high-tech facility capable of creating and efficiently producing such products.

But agrifood consultant David McKinna said Coca-Cola Amatil had been too slow and missed opportunities in smart packaged fresh fruit, nuts and olives, where potential rivals lacked their distribution strength.

The group could have funded the $120 million plant upgrade itself if it thought it would make the required return, Dr McKinna said. The fact that it sought government help indicated "they don't believe they can".

A study by his firm, McKinna et al, of identical food plants late last year found the weighted average all up cost of shop floor labour was $55 an hour in Australia, $18 in New Zealand and $4 in China.

The US Bureau of Labour Statistics found Australian manufacturing labour costs to be about twice the level in New Zealand in 2012, and a third higher than in the US and Italy, which exports cheap canned tomatoes.

The dollar has fallen since then, and SPC Ardmona has won anti-dumping duties on imported tomatoes, but failed with canned fruit.

Even so, for Australian food processing to survive, Simplot's Terry O'Brien says business has to get its costs down across the board, labour included, which means more investment in labour saving machinery.

"But there's no point putting that investment in if the money saved ends up coming out in ever higher wages, because that doesn't improve our situation at all."

I too am salaried, no such thing as RDO's, penalty rates or overtime - we get leave loading once a year though. If we work more than the required 38hrs a week we can "bank" our hours and take a flexi day once we have enough to take a day off, but you're only allowed a max of 2 per month.

[MercurySilver]

I consider myself lucky.
I grew up in the UK and god knows where I would be or what kind of education or job I would've got over there.
Came at aged 12 and it was pretty hard at first and only in the last ten years have I been able to earn fairly reasonable wages.
I consider myself lucky as I have a good job paying $30 an hr to work afternoon shift. I can bank my over time and cash it out later, I work 40 hrs a week and bank 2 hrs rdo a week that I can cash out at time and a half
I have an income protection policy thru work, it cost us a pay rise, but at 85% of my average wage as a pay out its quite good.
I'm in the wine and spirit industry, so there's quite a bit of work and we are already doing between 50 and 58 hrs a week
Work have also paid for a diploma level certificate.
I think I'm quite lucky as friends are working in town for 500 to 600 bucks a week! How they support a family and have a mortgage I'll never know.

While everything is much more expensive over here and Ido wish my overtime wwasn't taxed to the hilt, I'mhappy with what iI have and there are certainly a lot more poor bugger's out there struggling to put food on the table.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Yep it's slowly but surely happening in Australia, with big companies. They are only starting to employ non-Australians slowly weeding out Aussie workers. Sure at the moment these non-Australians are on the same money. But when all the Australian our weeded out, then that's when the big companies will take advantage of the 3rd world employees.

People like toe-knee rabbit want to have a asian type of living standard new world. i have come across this type of person a fair bit as they have no concept of others, it's all about them self. they rant and rave crying about their next property decision. and there love affair with boosting housing values up out of reach of the next generation, destroying the australian dream but do they give a toss, no not at all they were happy to do so.
They are vultures that are destroying australia, it's going to be like South Africa hear the very rich and the very poor.

We have had a 3rd rate unions in this nation for many years that have cooked there goose with their 3rd rate short sighted narrow minded hillbilly bogan outlook.
look to the German Danish Canada unions they are on the ball, but ours are only drongos.

[ebxr8240]

Everybody THINKS they're better than the other guy..
Takes all sorts to make the world go around..
Our population is too small to have the prices highly populated have..
If half the labour workforce pay was reduced then so would rent, food etc..

[doktoravalanche]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Everybody THINKS they're better than the other guy..
Takes all sorts to make the world go around..
Our population is too small to have the prices highly populated have..
If half the labour workforce pay was reduced then so would rent, food etc..

I don't think economics works quite like that!

[MITCHAY]

The easier you are to replace, and the easier it is to make the replacement fully effective, the less you are worth to a company.

That's why low skilled people are paid low wages and highly skilled people are paid more. Of course there are exceptions for both, but this is generally the rule.

How long or how hard you work generally means nothing unfortunately.

[poppa smurf]

my father worked through the depression on a self owned, self run milk round, most of his customers simply didn't have the money to pay for the basics so the credit used to run pretty high,

if this milk was not given by a kind hearted giant of a man (my father) then these people would have starved, rabbit stew was always on the menu for those in need, my father used to give these when he had them, bullets were expensive so trapping was the go, early rise and late to bed, if at all.

to supplement his income and to support his own family he used to shovel coal onto the locomotives coal tender for 2 bob a ton .......he was told many times per day that if he didn't work harder or didn't want the job then the 100 or so poor buggers waiting behind the cyclone fence would be more than eager to take his place.

Many sacrifices have been made by those who went before us, lives given and many beatings given so that we may enjoy the fruits of our labour, there are those who would seek to undermine our "conditions".....

Australia is an extremely rich country and can easily afford the rates and lifestyle we enjoy, if these resources are handled responsibly but the wealth is held by the privileged few.

the greed of multinational companies must be hauled in and govco forced to actually serve the needs of it's constituents and not the "global" multinationals.

in some instances maybe the pendulum has swung too far but in most cases conditions are more than fair and profits high enough to sustain even the most greediest of snouts in the trough.