12 production days cut for next 3 months - Page 2

Gobes32 · 14-02-2011, 02:20 PM

I don't buy a new Ford because my mortgage does not allow it. In fact, I had to sell my two year old Territory to try and pay off my house just a little bit faster. Also, out of a group of 6 young couples we know, only one of them has purchased a new car in the last 8 years and they don't have kids ( it was a new Corolla ). So if no one under 40 with kids and a mortgage can afford to buy a new car, then why sell a large family car at all? Of course I could be miles off target, it's just my opinion really.

WOTDAH · 15-02-2011, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And if you own Ford (or managed it) you have one of 2 options in this case
1) Work out why & fix it
2) Stop making it

I think option 2 is being looked at very closely........ 3 to 5 years I give it.

naddis01 · 15-02-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I don't buy a new Ford because my mortgage does not allow it. In fact, I had to sell my two year old Territory to try and pay off my house just a little bit faster. Also, out of a group of 6 young couples we know, only one of them has purchased a new car in the last 8 years and they don't have kids ( it was a new Corolla ). So if no one under 40 with kids and a mortgage can afford to buy a new car, then why sell a large family car at all? Of course I could be miles off target, it's just my opinion really.

We are a young family and we have a mortgage as well as building a new house. We bought a new car last year however it was not the traditional family car. It was a large mid size wagon. Ford did not have a product that suited our needs or that we liked.

I don't make a fortune and my wife is a stay at home mum. I guess I am just saying everyones situation is different.

Gobes32 · 15-02-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

We are a young family and we have a mortgage as well as building a new house. We bought a new car last year however it was not the traditional family car. It was a large mid size wagon. Ford did not have a product that suited our needs or that we liked.

I don't make a fortune and my wife is a stay at home mum. I guess I am just saying everyones situation is different.

If we did not sell our Territory we would never have been approved to build a home. Good on for you for being able to do it, my hat goes off to you. But a single income family being able to do what you are is in the minority.

Gobes32 · 15-02-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

I think option 2 is being looked at very closely........ 3 to 5 years I give it.

2016 is the call I will make. Ford Oz only hope is we are approved to build RHD Taurus, Mondeo etc.

Quicksand · 15-02-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I don't buy a new Ford because my mortgage does not allow it. In fact, I had to sell my two year old Territory to try and pay off my house just a little bit faster. Also, out of a group of 6 young couples we know, only one of them has purchased a new car in the last 8 years and they don't have kids ( it was a new Corolla ). So if no one under 40 with kids and a mortgage can afford to buy a new car, then why sell a large family car at all? Of course I could be miles off target, it's just my opinion really.

These are my thoughts also. Interest rates and the rising average costs of home ownership and general living can't be helping. The money has to come from somewhere. I know one of the first things my wife and i do when we review our budget is look at fuel costs and car costs. We have cut down all other costs that we are largely in control of, but the Turbo is a bit of a 'luxury' for us. Its very tempting to downsize the car, save a lot of money in the loan and have a car that runs very cheaply.

Unfortunately we've never been in a financial position to buy a brand new car outright, but to offset this, we have bought every Falcon/FPV second hand from a Ford Dealership. Its not as much of a money winner for Ford, but its the best we can do to help.

The writing is on the wall for Falcon. A part of me wonders if Ford are letting it die slowly so that we slowly come to terms with its end.

**Polyal** · 15-02-2011, 12:12 PM

Bloody hell chin up fellas.

I think everyone needs to remember what their parents where like, I dont think much has changed there.

My mum brought her first brand new car when she was in her late 40's...same story, three kids, mortgage etc...

I would be interested to see the stats on prices of mortgages vs income from previous years. We all know real estate has gone bonkers, I dont think wages have increased at the same rate..could be wrong.

There is still a place for the Falcon IMO, problem is it hasn't moved with the times. 2011 is bringing changes to fix this IMO.

Take me for example, I have two kids under 3, married, had a house but sold and will reenter withing 24 months, im back at uni but once working (next year) ill be looking for a new car..the AU wont last forever.

The difference is the competition (not Holden btw)...my wife is dead set on a diesel as her father has a Golf TDI. I dont want a mondeo but would get a focus..BUT if there was a diesel falcon then that would get the nod.

Diesel Terra is good but we dont really need a SUV yet, in 5 years time or so perhaps, but there will be many others who will love this car.

Just saying, alot has changed, but alot is still the same. The I4T will help aswell.

EVERYONE SAYS THE FALCON IS DEAD...WHY IS THE COMMY NOT IN THE SAME BOAT THEN??

edit:

Come to think of it, when I was younger all my mates dads had new commys and falcons..as company cars! This is what has killed the local industry...their should be more incentive for local business to buy locally (greater write off or something I dont know)..companies got tight and instead of getting large cars to run their employees around they get corollas....again, I hope the I4T can turn this around and Ford really hone in on local businesses to show the advantages of a falcon that can return good MPG and offer higher practicality than a small car.

DanielXR8 · 15-02-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

EVERYONE SAYS THE FALCON IS DEAD...WHY IS THE COMMY NOT IN THE SAME BOAT THEN??

Ultimately in a decade or so it is. It just doesn't have the excellent teams from Ford Australia's marketing, sales, warranty support and dealer network to give it a push along.

Dan

**Polyal** · 15-02-2011, 12:21 PM

Dan, agreed, Fords supply chain is lackluster at best.

Ok so are people really saying the large car segment is dead...perhaps we should put a memo out to Merc and BMW that they are wasting their money aswell....

Another factor could be that small cars just aren't that small anymore aswell...so large cars need to offer something far greater than they are at the moment, unless the fuel consumption is the main issue at hand.

Also, for those who run businesses here, does Ford (or Holden for that matter) offer loyalty programs?

EgoFG · 15-02-2011, 12:23 PM

Second hand car sales build resale prices, resale prices build lease purchases.

Please keep buying 2nd Falcons, and if you can afford it new ones !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gobes32 · 15-02-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Too long to quote......

And therein lies the problem, Falcon is not your first choice, it isn't anyones first choice anymore. The large Aussie sedan is dead my friends.

prydey · 15-02-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

And therein lies the problem, Falcon is not your first choice, it isn't anyones first choice anymore. The large Aussie sedan is dead my friends.

about 8% of the market, or 8000 odd people disagree with you. could even be more as technically camry is same size as aurion. not sure if it gets included in large car sales or mid car.

the large car is simply becoming what the lwb cars used to be.

here's a question though. for someone who has a wife and 2 kids and travels interstate every year to visit family, what other options are there? yes i'm talking about my own situation. mondeo might fit us all in, but personally i can't stand the interiors on them and the exterior styling isn't as good as falcon either (in my opinion). territory isn't an option. doesn't really have any more room and uses a lot more fuel and doesn't go as well. i'm a blue blood so i wouldn't even look at other marques but if i did, it would be the same scenario. i still find the next size down too small, not enough performance or styling isn't for me.

at the end of the day, many of us on here like to make predictions (me included) but can we really speak for anyone other than ourselves and a handful of others??

**Polyal** · 15-02-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

And therein lies the problem, Falcon is not your first choice, it isn't anyones first choice anymore. The large Aussie sedan is dead my friends.

I didn't quite say that, it would be my first choice if it had what I wanted..so FoA has read the segment or trends incorrectly. They need to be a be more proactive rather than reactive, which I believe the string of products this year will help sort out...but it needs to continue.

If the I4T works out to provide roughly the same figures as a diesel, without the price premium then it should be great. But if they had thew diesel next to it I would also go that route.

Im guessing FoA would prefer buyers to select the I6 LiLPG than a diesel anyway.

It would be interesting to know the % of the market is made up of large cars.

And again, how can the large aussie sedan be dead when the commy is still selling ok and it doesn't even offer class leading anything.

prydey · 15-02-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

It would be interesting to know the % of the market is made up of large cars.

And again, how can the large aussie sedan be dead when the commy is still selling ok and it doesn't even offer class leading anything.

i asked this question in one of the few threads on this similar topic and i think the answer was around 8% of the market.

also, is the commodore going ok? its sales were also well down on what they normally are and they have a full line up on offer.

**Polyal** · 15-02-2011, 03:30 PM

8%, so with one million sold (damn thats high for a country with a pop of ~22M) thats 80,000 cars in the large car segment. Id have to look at what other cars are in this class to see what Holden and Ford are selling..still..even if both companies averaged 2000/month thats 48,000/year which is ok..I think and a little over 50% of the market segment between them which should be about right...seems like there is room to me if those numbers are sustainable.

The commy is doing well for a car that like I said, doesn't really excel at anything at looks like it 6+ years old.

But we could also come back to the topic of which company has its head above water?

Franco Cozzo · 15-02-2011, 03:39 PM

Does anyone still actually drive around the country these days? Its cheaper to fly around.

naddis01 · 15-02-2011, 03:48 PM

Its only cheaper to fly if you are travelling by yourself and/or you are flying between capitals.

Joe5619 · 15-02-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

And therein lies the problem, Falcon is not your first choice, it isn't anyones first choice anymore. The large Aussie sedan is dead my friends.

it was my first choice!!!

bobthebilda · 15-02-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

8%, so with one million sold (damn thats high for a country with a pop of ~22M) thats 80,000 cars in the large car segment. Id have to look at what other cars are in this class to see what Holden and Ford are selling..still..even if both companies averaged 2000/month thats 48,000/year which is ok..I think and a little over 50% of the market segment between them which should be about right...seems like there is room to me if those numbers are sustainable.

The commy is doing well for a car that like I said, doesn't really excel at anything at looks like it 6+ years old.

But we could also come back to the topic of which company has its head above water?

With Falcon selling 1200 Last month and commodore 2600, that was a total of 3800 (numbers rounded up) cars sold, in a Large car segment which consisted on 5056 cars. So the Falcon and Commodore make up approx 75% of the large car segment. The others being taken by Aurion (i think about 600), and others.

But 5056 was only 6.9% of the 73584 vehicles sold last month. Falcon and commodores share was only 3800/73584 = 5.2%. I suppose the Corolla only got 5.5% of the whole market (4045 Corollas equate to about 3 days production at one Corolla plant)

Quicksand · 15-02-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

D
Ok so are people really saying the large car segment is dead...perhaps we should put a memo out to Merc and BMW that they are wasting their money aswell....

Hehe i get the point you are trying to make, but you can't compare a niche specialist upmarket vehicle like Merc/BMW to a mass produced Falcon; the Falcon attempts to appeal to the 'average' OZ household and relies on these sales. The problem is the 'average' OZ is looking elsewhere.

People are realising they can still get a 'large' car by way of SUV, maintain all functionality from before and add more functionality through what the SUV offers. OK the average SUV isn't going to beat an XR6 from 0-100km/h but with other factors like the cost of petrol and the cost of general living, outright speed is not an issue. After all...how fast do we really need to go?

Besides, the low volume of Merc/BMW is largely offset by their astronomical RRP (in Australia).

Quicksand · 15-02-2011, 04:29 PM

For the record Polyal, i applaud your optimism. (No seriously...i do!)

**Polyal** · 15-02-2011, 04:37 PM

The german comment was more about the market segment as a whole. While Australia is different it still has the same cars as many other countries. To say the large car segment, and thus the aussie sedan is dead is incorrect. Merc/BMW isn't really a niche brand (its their falcon/commy in europe) its just priced that way here, both companies have a multiple large/medium sedans that would compete with the falcon/commy (brand prejudice aside) if ours where available elsewhere.

Just a glass half full at the moment...IIRC Globes is in manufacturing, and yes when there is a sharp downturn is nerve racking, but the fight is long and certainly not over.

vztrt · 15-02-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Does anyone still actually drive around the country these days? Its cheaper to fly around.

Until you need to get around. Its still cheaper to drive, unless your on your own stuck in one place.

Road_Warrior · 15-02-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Until you need to get around. Its still cheaper to drive, unless your on your own stuck in one place.

Or you live in a place like Western Australia where there is no such thing as cheap airfares and massive distances to cover.

jpd80 · 15-02-2011, 06:43 PM

Or you live in a place like Gladstone, Queensland where there is
no such thing as cheap airfares and no competition to QANTAS Link.

I actually enjoy tripping around in the R6 Ute, it really soaks up the miles and
you don't get out at the other end with a sore back from all the jiggly roads.

Anyone who has driven a FWd anything on roads with big ruts on the left edge of the road will attest to
the pulling and diving that goes on through the steering wheel, especially when those ruts are full of water...

Windsor220 · 15-02-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Or you live in a place like Western Australia where there is no such thing as cheap airfares and massive distances to cover.

Flights from Perth to somewhere like Melbourne are a lot cheaper than if you drove there. Especially with todays fuel prices.

chrisfpv · 15-02-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The problem is simple really. People do not want to buy new Falcons anymore. We can analyze it from twenty different angles, but the fact is, Falcon is no longer an option among modern day consumers.

Give this guy a gold medal FFS.

Road_Warrior · 15-02-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Flights from Perth to somewhere like Melbourne are a lot cheaper than if you drove there. Especially with todays fuel prices.

Sorry I meant within WA.

Windsor220 · 15-02-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The problem is simple really. People do not want to buy new Falcons anymore. We can analyze it from twenty different angles, but the fact is, Falcon is no longer an option among modern day consumers.

Yep and people are struggling to realise that.

There is no real need for large cars anymore. If you want something big for the family or that can tow you get a SUV/4WD. If you drive around the city you get something smaller and more efficient. You want to haul a load you get a ute. The only thing Falcons and Commodores are still good for are their performance varients. So I said it before and I'll say it again, Falcon should be turned into a performance line only. Base it off the Mustang to keep costs down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Sorry I meant within WA.

Ah yes well that is true then.

prydey · 15-02-2011, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

There is no real need for large cars anymore. If you want something big for the family or that can tow you get a SUV/4WD.

or you get a large car, that is cheap to run, doesn't feel like a barge, cheaper to maintain etc etc.